The Last of Us

C14N · 19-06-2013 4:28pm

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

They both live, some would consider that a happy ending regardless of the circumstances of how they lived.

I actually found it considerably less

happy than if they had both died.

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

How long could he keep the lie up though? He'd have to go back to his brother's town, they'd ask what happened and he'd tell them the lie, and it would just go downhill from there.
I still feel there is something missing from the ending, and although I didn't not like the ending, it didn't satisfy me.

I don't think they go back to Tommy's town. The ending to me just seems that Joel plans on wandering the wilderness forever like in the game. I believe he'll keep going forever, which is what is really depressing about the ending.

FlyingIrishMan · 19-06-2013 4:32pm

C14N wrote: »

I actually found it considerably less
happy than if they had both died.

I don't think they go back to Tommy's town. The ending to me just seems that Joel plans on wandering the wilderness forever like in the game. I believe he'll keep going forever, which is what is really depressing about the ending.

Well they were overlooking Tommy's town so I assumed that was the plan to head back there.

danthefan · 19-06-2013 4:37pm

Big Knox wrote: »

Joel is a completely broken person, to the point where he would sacrifice everything to fulfill his selfish need to have a daughter. Nothing good of him remains whatsoever and his intentions, are selfishly evil to the point where he no longer cares what Ellie wants or needs. I won't even reference what he has done for the hopes of the surviving population.

And Ellie is now forced to live a life which she no longer wants. Forced to live with everything that has happened and everything that she has done up to this point. She had accepted her role in all of this and was prepared to make the sacrifice for the greater good. I guess you could argue over time she might accept things and live a somewhat normal life but it's very doubtful.

I really don't see how anyone could see any good in the way things ended.

I don't think Joel was evil. He was horribly, horribly misguided but I don't think he was evil.

I also don't think Ellie knew she had to die in order for the Fireflies to try find a vaccine.

C14N · 19-06-2013 4:41pm

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

Well they were overlooking Tommy's town so I assumed that was the plan to head back there.

I just mean I don't think they planned to stay there forever.

danthefan wrote: »

I don't think Joel was evil. He was horribly, horribly misguided but I don't think he was evil.

I also don't think Ellie knew she had to die in order for the Fireflies to try find a vaccine.

You could argue that nobody is really evil, just misguided. Like most people who we consider "evil" though, Joel was willing to sacrifice the well-being of many for his own selfishness. Ellie may not have known she was going to die but given everything before it in the game, I'm certain she would have been willing if she did know.

Otacon · 19-06-2013 4:41pm

I wonder what the single-player DLC will be? Could it be

Sam and Henry's story

or perhaps a snippet from

Marlene's journey across the country

?

Timmyctc · 19-06-2013 5:06pm

Otacon wrote: »

I wonder what the single-player DLC will be? Could it be
Sam and Henry's story
or perhaps a snippet from
Marlene's journey across the country
?

I actually have a thought that it might be

ISH's story from the notes in the sewers or maybe a prequel involving Joel. Might explore some of the backstory RE: himself and Tess and maybe Bill

Potential-Monke · 19-06-2013 6:19pm

Right, finished it. A while it was a very, very good game, i can't see why it's getting as much praise as it is. Yes, it was a great story, very well acted and voiced, and dealt with more mature themes than most other games, but it's certainly not as great as it's being made out to be.

My grudge against losing 6 hours aside, the gameplay let it down for me. It was good, don't get me wrong, very good actually, but at times it took away from the experience, possibly due to your partner AI not being spotted by an enemy even though they literally walked in front of them.

I did really enjoy certain aspects of it, simple things like commenting on notes found, the relationship between Ellie and Joel, the way Joel would put his arm around Ellie when both crouched behind something (i thought that was a wonderful touch).

As for the ending,

I get what they were doing. It's an age of 60%+ of the population being either dead or infected, and that percentage is rising. How can there be a good ending? Finding a cure would be so clichéd, and they wanted to keep with the whole "Last of Us" theme, and i believe it's one of the few games i've played which doesn't have a happy ending (The Walking Dead being another). It had the impact they were looking for. Strange to get a game with an unhappy ending, as it doesn't fulfill like others, and leaves you wanting. But a bold, great move by ND. And i can see Joel either keeping a steely face and story until his untimely death, where he'll either confess all and look for forgiveness, or die thinking what he done was right. It's only a matter of time before he calls Ellie Sarah.

Anyway, 8.5/10. A very, very good game, but not the masterpiece everyone is talking about. (And that's going on a 10 being a masterpiece, of which there is none yet).

Oh, and stats:

Finished on normal
527 Kills
24 Deaths
1 Ally Death

Firearm kills: 317
Shots fired: 666 (:eek:)
Accuracy: 68%
Headshots: 83
Melee kills: 185
Choke outs: 48

Sephiroth_dude · 19-06-2013 7:25pm

Anyone else not able to sign into pan network?

Timmyctc · 19-06-2013 7:27pm

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Anyone else not able to sign into pan network?

Loads of issues with the new firmware today apparently. Sony pulled it amid speculation it locked out ps3s with self installed HDDs. I would imagine there'll be sporadic outages until they sort it.

kearneybobs · 19-06-2013 7:29pm

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Anyone else not able to sign into pan network?

Yup. Happening to me too. Trying to change my Netflix DNS setting and it's not playing nice.

cloud493 · 19-06-2013 7:34pm

Killed David :cool: I was pretty scared Joel was dead, honestly.

Sephiroth_dude · 19-06-2013 7:45pm

kearneybobs wrote: »

Yup. Happening to me too. Trying to change my Netflix DNS setting and it's not playing nice.

My Netflix is working hmmmm

Grayditch · 19-06-2013 9:14pm

Just finished it there.

I guess I'm happy there will be DLC, but you don't get your soul crushing ending, where maybe he breaks into the operating room, and just before she goes under she convinces Joel to let it go ahead. He singers her to sleep , fade to black and then credits.

But hey, like I said, I wan't my DLC!

What a game.

mystic86 · 19-06-2013 10:02pm

danthefan wrote: »

I don't think Joel was evil. He was horribly, horribly misguided but I don't think he was evil.

I also don't think Ellie knew she had to die in order for the Fireflies to try find a vaccine.

I agree with this.

Yes Ellie had been building her hopes up all long as possibly being the cure to save humanity and she wanted to make a difference, but I'm sure she had no idea it would require her being killed. I think that Joel lied to her about there being other people that are immune because he had grown so close to her and didn't think it was morally right to kill her.
I mean it does tie into a bigger moralistic question - when is it ever right for one person to take another person's life? Is it 'right' to sentence repeat murderers to death by lethal injection? Is it 'right' to kill 1 person if it may save a hundred more? Who decides that person should be killed 'for the greater good' and is the person who decides that not then a criminal as bad as the murderers who were sentenced to death in the first place?

Joel didn't think it was right that she should have to die, and had grown extremely close to her. Why did he lie to her? Well if he told the truth she could very well have continued to beat herself up, for what has happened to her friends and the fact that she is still alive, she might not have been able to live a 'happy' life with this combined with the fact that she knew she was the only person alive who was immune, and might have given in to the fireflies experimentation knowing that her life and her survival in that attack might end up with a cure for the infection.
But by lying and saying the fireflies have many other people who are immune then OK, she will still feel bad, and an element of guilt about surviving when her friends didn't, but she can hopefully find some happiness in living her life with Joel and not feeling guilty about not sacrificing herself for the 'greater good' when there are others that can do it. 'Happiness' is relative, but everyone has to try and eke out some element of happiness in in whatever situation they find themselves in in life.

That and of course I do also believe that there was an element of selfishness on Joel's part, he didn't want to lose her in his life, after losing Sarah, and then taking so many years to lower his guard in that way again. But unlike some people here I think it's at most 50/50 between this selfishness and the points I made above.

I think that people talking about Joel being evil, or making an evil decision, or commenting how they don't like him after 'what he did' - well - I think they are way off the mark.

But that's just my opinion, man.

Mr.Prodston · 19-06-2013 10:03pm

87% now and over 16 hours, seriously taking my time with this.

Joel's alive, not that I really thought he wasn't. Jaysus your man chasing after me/ellie in the restaurant was genuinely terrifying at times. Been dying far more as her, understandable. Now just cut to Joel running like a badass

I'll finish this tomorrow I'd say, I'm a nervous wreck at the moment :eek: :pac:

YouSavedMyLife · 19-06-2013 10:57pm

I should finish this soon, everytime i come into this thread its just pages after pages of grey feckin walls

tok9 · 19-06-2013 11:05pm

Jebus, this game can certainly be intense.. met the clickers for the first time!

I highly recommend playing this with headphones lads.. the sound is absolutely amazing.

kearneybobs · 20-06-2013 1:57am

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

My Netflix is working hmmmm

Ah it's back working now i think, although I need new DNS setting to get the US netflix back.

Just realised that non of the trophies were popping up. I'm up the the point where

you're in the hotel after you let Ellie jump across the raft.

Went into my trophy list and now they're popping up. A little frustrating but not the end of the world.

On a positive side it appears my PS3 has stopped overheating. It would happen about 10 mins into loading into the game. Had it lock up on me once as a result of the overheating, presumably.

So far a great game but has a few of the same problems that the latter uncharted games had, such as very floaty controls etc. Not game breaking but it's always reminding me I'm playing a recent Naughty Dog game.

Soby · 20-06-2013 4:18am

Just finished it there on Hard , Well lived up to the Hype

, Roll on the DLC

King Krib · 20-06-2013 7:58am

I had a few spare minutes last night so played through the prologue for the first time. I know I haven't even played the game really yet but it really sucks you in from the start. Right from Sarah's witty dialogue about how she bought the gift to the infected dragging people from cars.Unbelievable!!!!

C14N · 20-06-2013 8:32am

mystic86 wrote: »

I agree with this.
Yes Ellie had been building her hopes up all long as possibly being the cure to save humanity and she wanted to make a difference, but I'm sure she had no idea it would require her being killed. I think that Joel lied to her about there being other people that are immune because he had grown so close to her and didn't think it was morally right to kill her.
I mean it does tie into a bigger moralistic question - when is it ever right for one person to take another person's life? Is it 'right' to sentence repeat murderers to death by lethal injection? Is it 'right' to kill 1 person if it may save a hundred more? Who decides that person should be killed 'for the greater good' and is the person who decides that not then a criminal as bad as the murderers who were sentenced to death in the first place?

Joel didn't think it was right that she should have to die, and had grown extremely close to her. Why did he lie to her? Well if he told the truth she could very well have continued to beat herself up, for what has happened to her friends and the fact that she is still alive, she might not have been able to live a 'happy' life with this combined with the fact that she knew she was the only person alive who was immune, and might have given in to the fireflies experimentation knowing that her life and her survival in that attack might end up with a cure for the infection.
But by lying and saying the fireflies have many other people who are immune then OK, she will still feel bad, and an element of guilt about surviving when her friends didn't, but she can hopefully find some happiness in living her life with Joel and not feeling guilty about not sacrificing herself for the 'greater good' when there are others that can do it. 'Happiness' is relative, but everyone has to try and eke out some element of happiness in in whatever situation they find themselves in in life.

That and of course I do also believe that there was an element of selfishness on Joel's part, he didn't want to lose her in his life, after losing Sarah, and then taking so many years to lower his guard in that way again. But unlike some people here I think it's at most 50/50 between this selfishness and the points I made above.

I think that people talking about Joel being evil, or making an evil decision, or commenting how they don't like him after 'what he did' - well - I think they are way off the mark.

But that's just my opinion, man.

This might be easier to agree with if

the game didn't make you kill the unarmed doctors to get Ellie out, as well as Marlene who had lowered her weapon. The fact that he gave Ellie no choice in the matter himself contributes further. He didn't wake her up to ask if she would be willing to go through with it because he knew she probably would, he just wanted Ellie to himself and even then it's strongly implied that to him, she's basically just a substitute for the daughter he lost.

It's kind of hard to take the "is it right to sacrifice the life of one for the good of the many?" line when Joel straight up murdered a whole building full of people (4 of whom as I said weren't attacking him first) to get to one person. It's not just refusing to sacrifice one person for many, it's sacrificing a load of other people instead and still not getting any benefit for the many.

cloud493 · 20-06-2013 10:08am

C14N wrote: »

This might be easier to agree with if
the game didn't make you kill the unarmed doctors to get Ellie out, as well as Marlene who had lowered her weapon. The fact that he gave Ellie no choice in the matter himself contributes further. He didn't wake her up to ask if she would be willing to go through with it because he knew she probably would, he just wanted Ellie to himself and even then it's strongly implied that to him, she's basically just a substitute for the daughter he lost.

It's kind of hard to take the "is it right to sacrifice the life of one for the good of the many?" line when Joel straight up murdered a whole building full of people (4 of whom as I said weren't attacking him first) to get to one person. It's not just refusing to sacrifice one person for many, it's sacrificing a load of other people instead and still not getting any benefit for the many.

I think Joel was mentally unstable by this point. David does refer to him as a crazy man after all

But I still don't think he was wrong, in the strictest sense

Zero-Cool · 20-06-2013 10:16am

I'm in dangerous waters here but can someone answer me the below:

Spoilers about 2 people you meet

Sam and Henry. During the sniper bit, when they are both attacked, I shot the
infected off Henry. Then later Sam shows he was infected. If I helped Sam
instead, would Henry then be bitten and does that cgi bit play out any different
when they both die?

I'm just onto the

Dam

now.

C14N · 20-06-2013 10:22am

sheehy83 wrote: »

I'm in dangerous waters here but can someone answer me the below:

Spoilers about 2 people you meet

Sam and Henry. During the sniper bit, when they are both attacked, I shot the
infected off Henry. Then later Sam shows he was infected. If I helped Sam
instead, would Henry then be bitten and does that cgi bit play out any different
when they both die?

I'm just onto the
Dam
now.

I don't think so, there really aren't any choices in this game so I'm fairly sure it's Sam who gets bitten either way.

Otacon · 20-06-2013 10:27am

sheehy83 wrote: »

Sam and Henry. During the sniper bit, when they are both attacked, I shot the
infected off Henry. Then later Sam shows he was infected. If I helped Sam
instead, would Henry then be bitten and does that cgi bit play out any different
when they both die?

C14N wrote: »

I don't think so, there really aren't any choices in this game so I'm fairly sure it's Sam who gets bitten either way.

I shot the zombie off of Sam first and he was still the one who turned so it doesn't seem to matter.

Grayditch · 20-06-2013 10:27am

C14N wrote: »

This might be easier to agree with if
the game didn't make you kill the unarmed doctors to get Ellie out,

I saw a blade, officer!

Otacon · 20-06-2013 10:32am

Ending

Maybe I am an evil basta*d, I don't know, but if I were in Joel's position, I would have done the exact same thing (in fact, I did I suppose). It may have been selfish but I would die fighting to save Ellie rather than leave her to her fate, especially after all that went before.

C14N · 20-06-2013 10:48am

Grayditch wrote: »

I saw a blade, officer!

Except that he actually won't attack you, I tried to get him to.

balkieb2002 · 20-06-2013 10:51am

sheehy83 wrote: »

I'm in dangerous waters here but can someone answer me the below:

Spoilers about 2 people you meet

Sam and Henry. During the sniper bit, when they are both attacked, I shot the
infected off Henry. Then later Sam shows he was infected. If I helped Sam
instead, would Henry then be bitten and does that cgi bit play out any different
when they both die?

I'm just after completing that part last night and it was also something I was wondering about but I figured everything was set in stone. I was a bit worried about clicking your spoiler tag but looked at first couple of word and knew it was safe reading!

I have a question regarding a guy from the letters you find. Bear in mind in only about 60% through - at part above.

It's regarding Ish. I've been managing to find his letters during my travels from when he arrived by boat, to his hideout and then the attack and escape but I think I may have missed one during the sniper scene. Last one I found was in a house before said sniper scene - the one with the upstairs safe. Do you find out anything more about him?

Zero-Cool · 20-06-2013 10:55am

balkieb2002 wrote: »

It's regarding Ish. I've been managing to find his letters during my travels from when he arrived by boat, to his hideout and then the attack and escape but I think I may have missed one during the sniper scene. Last one I found was in a house before said sniper scene - the one with the upstairs safe. Do you find out anything more about him?

Spoilers regarding

Ish

I'm interested in that as well. I get that he brought his

boat to land, found the sewers, setup a safe zone, recruited members, built a
working society. Infected got in sewer. Ish fled and hid in the suburbs. I took
it that he was the sniper?

The Last of Us

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