Croke Park deal to fail

Lord TSC · 16-04-2013 05:00PM

HondaSami wrote: »

What was the point in the vote in the first place when the government made it clear either agree with then or they bring in legislation to get what they want.Typical of our government.

Can't legislate anything other than pay cuts. Can't, for instance, force teachers to do voluntary work like they were proposing. They can cut pay, but will find it hard to force through condition changes....

SB2013 · 16-04-2013 05:00PM

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Not sure emergency services personnel can go on all out strike, do they not have a duty of care?

Only the Gardaí and army cannot strike.

granturismo · 16-04-2013 05:00PM

Lord Trollington wrote: »

I would hope not. That's the kinda $hit that has us where we are today.

People in the public sector are completely out of touch with reality.
.

What I was trying to say is that most PSs get 10 years of increments and if they work for 30 years thats 20 years of no pay rises unless there were pay rises in national agreements in the good old days.

Caliden · 16-04-2013 05:01PM

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Increments are only approved if a fully completed annual assessment is completed (look up Performance Management Development System).

Since 2008, civil and public servants have endured a Health Levy, Pension Levy, Pension Related Deductions, and pensions have been restructed such that anyone retiring post Feb 2011 will now receive a pension that is based on averaging, rather than their final salary. Promotions have been put on hold, hiring has been embargoed and most Departments have put a freeze on the Career Break scheme.

You really need to stop reading the Indo if you think public/civil servants haven't been cut.

I like how you say 'Since 2008' because between 2003 and 2009 the Public sector enjoyed a 38% average increase while private had an average of 15%.

Galwayguy35 · 16-04-2013 05:02PM

So what happens now then?

Do the PS unions strike?

Realistically it makes no difference to me whether they do or not as it won't affect me.

Gmol · 16-04-2013 05:02PM

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Increments are only approved if a fully completed annual assessment is completed (look up Performance Management Development System).

Since 2008, civil and public servants have endured a Health Levy, Pension Levy, Pension Related Deductions, and pensions have been restructed such that anyone retiring post Feb 2011 will now receive a pension that is based on averaging, rather than their final salary. Promotions have been put on hold, hiring has been embargoed and most Departments have put a freeze on the Career Break scheme.

You really need to stop reading the Indo if you think public/civil servants haven't been cut.

Don't forget bank time as well

HondaSami · 16-04-2013 05:04PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So what happens now then?

Do the PS unions strike?

Realistically it makes no difference to me whether they do or not as it won't affect me.

It will have an affect on everyone in some shape or form.

Lord Trollington · 16-04-2013 05:05PM

SB2013 wrote: »

Only the Gardaí and army cannot strike.

I'd like to see a doctor/fire fighter/ ambulance driver defend his/her strike after there is a loss of life or long term complications because of their actions.

How/why should they be allowed continue in their profession.

granturismo · 16-04-2013 05:05PM

Gmol wrote: »

Don't forget bank time as well

Its 2013, bank time no longer exists. It disappeared in Croke Park 1. Plus most civil and public servants didnt have 'bank time'

HondaSami · 16-04-2013 05:05PM

Gmol wrote: »

Don't forget bank time as well

Thought that was stopped.

Lenin Skynard · 16-04-2013 05:07PM

Surely this is the most profound failure possible for a Labour party in government.

nolow · 16-04-2013 05:07PM

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Increments are only approved if a fully completed annual assessment is completed (look up Performance Management Development System).

Since 2008, civil and public servants have endured a Health Levy, Pension Levy, Pension Related Deductions, and pensions have been restructed such that anyone retiring post Feb 2011 will now receive a pension that is based on averaging, rather than their final salary. Promotions have been put on hold, hiring has been embargoed and most Departments have put a freeze on the Career Break scheme.

You really need to stop reading the Indo if you think public/civil servants haven't been cut.

Yes and after you complete the annual assessment you get your increment. Don't try and tell me it's peformance based!

Meanwhile in the real world everybody else has been enduring levies and tax increases, pay cuts, short time working and redundancy and they're not too worried about pension cuts and promotions because they either have none or they lost their job anyway. As for career breaks well they're available alright, permanent ones.

I'm sorry but your post highlights exactly how out of touch with reality so many people working in the PS are. What should have happened was all round pay cuts, increased working hours and redeployment or redundancy in large parts of the sector. But here you are whining about your pension and career breaks. Away from the PS, you job would be on the line and with it your house.

Seriously get a grip.

I personally am sick of reading whiny stories from people earning €65k a year about how difficult it is to make ends meet.

Far too many PS workers simply haven't grasped the reality out there. The money isn't there any more.

Uriel. · 16-04-2013 05:08PM

granturismo wrote: »

Its 2013, bank time no longer exists. It disappeared in Croke Park 1. Plus most civil and public servants didnt have 'bank time'

I remember the Unions and/or members putting up a bit of a fight about it under Croke Park 1, rather stupidly in my opinion.

And CPSU were still harping on about it earlier this year. - not being able to cash their imaginary cheque.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/union-seeks-redress-for-lower-paid-members-1.953090

Gmol · 16-04-2013 05:09PM

HondaSami wrote: »

Thought that was stopped.

Just adding Bank time to the list of cuts another poster was saying had already being made as a result of CP1

Galwayguy35 · 16-04-2013 05:09PM

HondaSami wrote: »

It will have an affect on everyone in some shape or form.

Well if it does then they will lose whatever small amount of goodwilland support they had left within the private sector.

space_man · 16-04-2013 05:10PM

time to show these unions who's boss.

Bring back Maggie!

super_furry · 16-04-2013 05:10PM

The Labour party is dead. They are supposed to represent the interests of the working class Irish citizens but have instead thrown them under the Troika and the Bank's on-coming juggernaut.

Stinicker · 16-04-2013 05:10PM

There should be no cuts in my opinion what should be is around 100,000 forced redundancies and cut the fat from the system and get rid of the failed sons and daughters of fianna fail cronies who got jobs in the Public service under the Previous Government because most of them were unemployable anywhere else.

paddy147 · 16-04-2013 05:11PM

Bye Bye Eamon Gilmore???????

Lord TSC · 16-04-2013 05:11PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So what happens now then?

Do the PS unions strike?

Government make the next move. They propose something. If the PS union members don't like it, THEN there will be strikes.

I know from talking to people though, both online and off, that no one wants to strike though. It would take something crazy from the government to actually cause people to get out and strike. Most seem ready for paycuts and are prepared to take them...

notfromhere · 16-04-2013 05:11PM

i think its great that it is going to fail

Uriel. · 16-04-2013 05:11PM

nolow wrote: »

Yes and after you complete the annual assessment you get your increment. Don't try and tell me it's peformance based!

Meanwhile in the real world everybody else has been enduring levies and tax increases, pay cuts, short time working and redundancy and they're not too worried about pension cuts and promotions because they either have none or they lost their job anyway. As for career breaks well they're available alright, permanent ones.

I'm sorry but your post highlights exactly how out of touch with reality so many people working in the PS are. What should have happened was all round pay cuts, increased working hours and redeployment or redundancy in large parts of the sector. But here you are whining about your pension and career breaks. Away from the PS, you job would be on the line and with it your house.

Seriously get a grip.

I personally am sick of reading whiny stories from people earning €65k a year about how difficult it is to make ends meet.

Far too many PS workers simply haven't grasped the reality out there. The money isn't there any more.

oh Really???

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/surprise-as-pay-is-up-despite-years-of-austerity-29198299.html

THE average income of households went up last year because of wage rises and a jump in profits for the self-employed.

New figures indicate that the disposable income of the average household – earnings after tax has been deducted – rose to just over €51,000 in 2012.

Finance experts were surprised at the findings from the Central Statistics Office (CSO), given that households have now been hit with six austerity Budgets, and so many people are well behind on mortgage payments and energy bills.

Among the hits taken by households since 2008 are three cuts to child benefit, the introduction of the universal social charge, changes in income tax credits, changes to pay-related social insurance and reductions in social welfare.

The household income figure includes social welfare payments like child benefit and is arrived at after income tax has been paid but before other essential outgoings, such as mortgage repayments.

The CSO figures show that the disposable income from all households was €86.27bn last year – up 2.5pc from 2011. There was a €1.9bn rise in profits for the self-employed and a €711m increase in wages.

Separate CSO figures show 1.69 million households in the State, indicating the after-tax income of the average household jumped from €49,820 in 2011 to €50,049 last year.

The disposable income of the average household has fallen sharply since it hit a high of €60,581 in 2008.

Pay cuts, fewer people in jobs and income tax changes are mainly responsible for the sharp fall in household incomes.

The latest signs of a rise in incomes appear to contradict recent research commissioned by the Irish League of Credit Unions which found that 1.6 million people had €50 or less at the end of each month once essential bills were paid.

Economist with Goodbody Stockbrokers Dermot O'Leary said the CSO figures hide massive differences in the incomes of different sections of society.

Contradictions

He said people working in IT, professional services and lawyers were seeing their incomes go up.

Many of those who received pay increases work in non-unionised industries. On the other hand, the 426,000 people on the live register had seen their incomes fall.

"There are a lot of contradictions in the Irish economy. Earnings and employment are rising in some sectors, while earnings are falling for others," Mr O'Leary said.

He added that a rise in gross incomes was a positive sign for the economy as it may lead to a rise in consumer spending.

However, other surveys have discovered that the prospect of paying the new property tax this year had held back large numbers of people from spending.

twinytwo · 16-04-2013 05:12PM

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Increments are only approved if a fully completed annual assessment is completed (look up Performance Management Development System).

Since 2008, civil and public servants have endured a Health Levy, Pension Levy, Pension Related Deductions, and pensions have been restructed such that anyone retiring post Feb 2011 will now receive a pension that is based on averaging, rather than their final salary. Promotions have been put on hold, hiring has been embargoed and most Departments have put a freeze on the Career Break scheme.

You really need to stop reading the Indo if you think public/civil servants haven't been cut.

Its fasinating to me, how you think that this is ok? Why should we continue to pay taxes to fund state pensions???, they are, have been and will continue to be a complete and absolute joke. State pensions should abolished for everyone.

oh and while im at it, what idiot dreamt up the career break scheme in the first place????

SB2013 · 16-04-2013 05:12PM

Lord Trollington wrote: »

I'd like to see a doctor/fire fighter/ ambulance driver defend his/her strike after there is a loss of life or long term complications because of their actions.

How/why should they be allowed continue in their profession.

Why wouldn't they? Their actions won't be the cause of anything. By your logic they should all just work for free as long as someone needs them.

nolow wrote: »

Yes and after you complete the annual assessment you get your increment. Don't try and tell me it's peformance based!

Meanwhile in the real world everybody else has been enduring levies and tax increases, pay cuts, short time working and redundancy and they're not too worried about pension cuts and promotions because they either have none or they lost their job anyway. As for career breaks well they're available alright, permanent ones.

I'm sorry but your post highlights exactly how out of touch with reality so many people working in the PS are. What should have happened was all round pay cuts, increased working hours and redeployment or redundancy in large parts of the sector. But here you are whining about your pension and career breaks. Away from the PS, you job would be on the line and with it your house.

Seriously get a grip.

I personally am sick of reading whiny stories from people earning €65k a year about how difficult it is to make ends meet.

Far too many PS workers simply haven't grasped the reality out there. The money isn't there any more.

I'm sick of hearing about all these phantom workers earning 65k.

paddy147 · 16-04-2013 05:13PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Government make the next move. They propose something. If the PS union members don't like it, THEN there will be strikes.

I know from talking to people though, both online and off, that no one wants to strike though. It would take something crazy from the government to actually cause people to get out and strike. Most seem ready for paycuts and are prepared to take them...

All too lazy to get out there then???:pac:

HondaSami · 16-04-2013 05:13PM

nolow wrote: »

Seriously get a grip.

I personally am sick of reading whiny stories from people earning €65k a year about how difficult it is to make ends meet.

Far too many PS workers simply haven't grasped the reality out there. The money isn't there any more.

Not everyone in the PS earns €65, there is a huge amount of low paid workers and these are the ones who have and will suffer the most.
Far too many people think all PS workers earn **** loads of money, they don't.

Uriel. · 16-04-2013 05:14PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Government make the next move. They propose something. If the PS union members don't like it, THEN there will be strikes.

I know from talking to people though, both online and off, that no one wants to strike though. It would take something crazy from the government to actually cause people to get out and strike. Most seem ready for paycuts and are prepared to take them...

I don't think they will propose. I think the proposal was Croke Park II, with that gone then they just have to implement whatever cuts they deem necessary. Although I suppose they do have to propose the cuts to the Dáil

super_furry · 16-04-2013 05:14PM

space_man wrote: »

time to show these unions who's boss.

Bring back Maggie!

Sadly the Government have shown us time and again who is boss and it's no-one in this country.

notfromhere · 16-04-2013 05:15PM

am in the PS and earn less than 35k alot of people in the PS earn the same

DoesNotCompute · 16-04-2013 05:15PM

nolow wrote: »

Yes and after you complete the annual assessment you get your increment. Don't try and tell me it's peformance based!

Meanwhile in the real world everybody else has been enduring levies and tax increases, pay cuts, short time working and redundancy and they're not too worried about pension cuts and promotions because they either have none or they lost their job anyway. As for career breaks well they're available alright, permanent ones.

I'm sorry but your post highlights exactly how out of touch with reality so many people working in the PS are. What should have happened was all round pay cuts, increased working hours and redeployment or redundancy in large parts of the sector. But here you are whining about your pension and career breaks. Away from the PS, you job would be on the line and with it your house.

Seriously get a grip.

I personally am sick of reading whiny stories from people earning €65k a year about how difficult it is to make ends meet.

Far too many PS workers simply haven't grasped the reality out there. The money isn't there any more.

It is performance based.

Civil servants pay taxes, levies and charges just like everyone else in the world.

Fair enough, I don't like whiny posts either, but I'm not on anything near 65k a year, I'll have you know.

Croke Park deal to fail

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