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Croke Park deal to fail

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12467…46

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    #92
    1hottmofo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 97 ✭✭1hottmofo


    Public service have the government by the short and curleys


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    #93
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    1hottmofo wrote: »
    Public service have the government by the short and curleys

    We'll see how short and curly they are when a 7% pay cut across the board is introduced and a total lack of public support if strikes are threatened/implemented.


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    #94
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Boombastic wrote: »
    We'll see how short and curly they are when a 7% pay cut across the board is introduced and a total lack of public support if strikes are threatened/implemented.

    I doubt there'll be 7% pay cuts - there will be pay cuts, but not on that scale.

    there won't be any strikes either, although you never know with the teachers.....


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    #95
    Richard tea
    Registered Users Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Boombastic wrote: »
    We'll see how short and curly they are when a 7% pay cut across the board is introduced and a total lack of public support if strikes are threatened/implemented.


    Seriously. When have the public ever supported a public sector strike. SERIOUSLY:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: There is no in between answer here.


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    #96
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    paddy147 wrote: »
    All too lazy to get out there then???:pac:

    Partly that, in the same way most of the country refuse to actually get out and do anything about anything.

    Partly that a lot feel they cannot actually afford to start missing days/weeks to strike. Despite the views of some, not every teacher (in fact the majority) is sitting on cushy 70k jobs where they can afford to stop working for a while. There's a fear about what striking could start. Which is why I said I reckon it would take a lot for the teachers to actually go out on strike. In fact, I think it speaks volumes about how bad a deal this was that it was voted down very, very quickly by teachers who have been quite content to sit back and let the government hack away at the profession for quite a while now.
    Uriel. wrote: »
    I don't think they will propose. I think the proposal was Croke Park II, with that gone then they just have to implement whatever cuts they deem necessary. Although I suppose they do have to propose the cuts to the Dáil

    You are 100% right. My use of the word "propose" was incorrect there. Bad choice of words. I meant "propose" in the form of "they will say wages are being cut by x% and teachers will then decide if they want to strike or not".


    So here's a question for the people who argue the public sector will lose sympathy if they strike; what sympathy do they have from you right now?

    It strikes me that there's a large portion of the country who already think very, very badly of public sector workers. You telling me there's sympathy there to lose any more? This attitude of "A strike won't affect me" shows a huge amount of disrespect for PS workers. I fully appreciate some people think they are paid too much, even if I think it's sheer ignorance to make sweeping statements about the entire workforce of the PS. But to try and say we'd lose sympathy and our jobs contribute nothing to the population of the country on a daily basis is a joke really.

    I posted this over on the teaching board a few weeks back. And I stand by it here.
    I don't mean to rant (which means I am about to unfortunately), but it strikes me that a lot of teachers need to wake up to the reality that the public sentiment is already well against teachers, and no amount of silent "dignified" protests are going to change that. Post on After Hours or check the letters and comments on the websites of newspapers, and you'll find that there's already a very vocal majority of the public who are firmly set against teachers; after all, aren't we just lazy, selfish "bad" teachers who walk in at 9, spew whatever random stuff comes into our head first and then clock off at 4, with lovely long holidays where we do nothing but laugh at the peasants below us while we burn our crazy wages.

    The public sympathy card is one that we have long since lost the ability to play with the government, and there should only be two factors now in deciding future forms of protest; the needs of the student and the conditions of the profession.

    The government have already won the public sentiment fight. They did it years ago. Worse, some teachers haven't even realized that and are still trying to fight that battle, when it's time to move on to a different tactic. I won't advocate strikes again (I've made my case and it's clear alot of teachers refuse to even consider it, so be it), but we as teachers now need to make it clear, to government AND the public, that we won't be shoved round and we don't care if it's not liked; it's for the good of the student and the profession, even if they don't want to acknowledge that.

    (I should note that for the most part, I can only talk about how CPII affects the education sector, not the other sectors. I'd appreciate if anyone from the other sectors could discuss it from their end to :) )


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    #97
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    1% on people bellow 35k, 2.5% on people bellow 50k, 7% from 50k to 99k and 10% on anyone above 100k.


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    #98
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    super_furry wrote: »
    1% on people bellow 35k, 2.5% on people bellow 50k, 7% from 50k to 99k and 10% on anyone above 100k.


    20-25%% on goverment politicians too.

    Show some propper fcuking leadership for once by taking a big cut yourselves.....:mad:


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    #99
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    I won't strike for the simple reason that one of my main motivations in joining the organisation I'm in now was to help people.

    In effect in my previous job I was a 'poacher' and I saw how destructive that was - well paid, but professionally and personally not very fulfilling. In fact you get paid a hell of a lot more for helping individuals and companies sidestep the rules than you do for making sure the system operates equitably.

    And you can't do that from a picket line.


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    #100
    1hottmofo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 97 ✭✭1hottmofo


    Jawgap wrote: »
    I won't strike for the simple reason that one of my main motivations in joining the organisation I'm in now was to help people.

    In effect in my previous job I was a 'poacher' and I saw how destructive that was - well paid, but professionally and personally not very fulfilling. In fact you get paid a hell of a lot more for helping individuals and companies sidestep the rules than you do for making sure the system operates equitably.

    And you can't do that from a picket line.

    Well done.I doubt many would have your conscious


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    #101
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    HondaSami wrote: »
    What was the point in the vote in the first place when the government made it clear either agree with then or they bring in legislation to get what they want.Typical of our government.

    The point of this collective bargaining was to allow the PS workers have some control over how, when and by how much their wages and work practices would be affected. By not agreeing to it they have left the government with no option but to bring in legislation and cut and amend work practices regardless. Only time will tell if they have the backbone to follow through with this legislation.


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    #102
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    twinytwo wrote: »
    the government will now make cuts across the board. the ps will go on strike and no one will care.

    You will when you need a nurse, doctor, garda and have to stay at home to mind your children while the teachers are out.


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    #103
    emo72
    Registered Users Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭emo72


    just in and heard the news. so to paraphrase the unions are basically saying "come at me bro"


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    #104
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Caliden wrote: »
    I like how you say 'Since 2008' because between 2003 and 2009 the Public sector enjoyed a 38% average increase while private had an average of 15%.

    Evidence perhaps....?


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    #105
    1hottmofo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 97 ✭✭1hottmofo


    tayto lover wrote: »
    You will when you need a nurse, doctor, garda and have to stay at home to mind your children while the teachers are out.


    Thats a good way to gain public support


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    #106
    SB2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭SB2013


    emo72 wrote: »
    just in and heard the news. so to paraphrase the unions are basically saying "come at me bro"

    predicted government response

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_qShAZg2Zw


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    #107
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    1hottmofo wrote: »
    Well done.I doubt many would have your conscious

    I think you'd be pleasantly surprised at the number of public / civil servants who would be similarly inclined


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    #108
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Well if it does then they will lose whatever small amount of goodwilland support they had left within the private sector.

    Goodwill me ar**.
    They can't feed their families on goodwill.


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    #109
    whiteandlight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭whiteandlight


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    The point of this collective bargaining was to allow the PS workers have some control over how, when and by how much their wages and work practices would be affected. By not agreeing to it they have left the government with no option but to bring in legislation and cut and amend work practices regardless. Only time will tell if they have the backbone to follow through with this legislation.

    I can't speak for all unions but our union stated that this was not bargaining, the government laid out what they wanted and that was it. This rankled with a lot of unions, particularly those who weren't even in the room. This wasn't a negotiation


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    #110
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    twinytwo wrote: »
    lets not forget.... they got paid extra to answer phones and put paper in the copier.... i **** you not.

    Who's they please...


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    #111
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Gmol wrote: »
    serious question what is the alternative? Forget about the bank debt, we are overspending on our day to day costs of running the country. It's either raise taxes or reduce spending

    PS pay is approx 25% of spending, do you not think savings could be made on the 75%


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    #112
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    I hope the government actually carry out the cuts. They have shown no teeth so far with the unions. They were given a mandate to change. It hasnt happened they did nothing. If the unions want to strike let them. With no pay. we as a nation are paying more for services than we should and its about time the privste sector were given some credit for the pay cuts and job loses suffered over the last five years.


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    #113
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Musicmental85 wrote: »
    I can't speak for all unions but our union stated that this was not bargaining, the government laid out what they wanted and that was it. This rankled with a lot of unions, particularly those who weren't even in the room. This wasn't a negotiation


    Boo hoo


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    #114
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Richard tea wrote: »
    Seriously. When have the public ever supported a public sector strike. SERIOUSLY:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: There is no in between answer here.

    You do know that 30% of the population rely on or have a close family connection to PS wage.


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    #115
    1hottmofo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 97 ✭✭1hottmofo


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Goodwill me ar**.
    They can't feed their families on goodwill.

    Lets play the worlds smallest violin

    You would swear by the way your carping on that theyre on minimum wage


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    #116
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    not yet wrote: »
    You do know that 30% of the population rely on or have a close family connection to PS wage.

    You see thats called a "minority".


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    #117
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    super_furry wrote: »
    1% on people bellow 35k, 2.5% on people bellow 50k, 7% from 50k to 99k and 10% on anyone above 100k.

    Sorry whats a bellow, Is it a music instrument ?


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    #118
    NinjaTruncs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭NinjaTruncs


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Goodwill me ar**.
    They can't feed their families on goodwill.
    Were these changes in the CP2 going to mean the difference between people being able to put food on the table or not? serious question, I understood CP2 outlined extra hours for most/all workers and reduce pay for people over a certain pay level, was there something else that hasn't been widely announced in CP2?

    4.3kWp South facing PV System. South Dublin



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    #119
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    srsly78 wrote: »
    You see thats called a "minority".

    Ha Ha, it's a fcuking hell of a lot more then no support.............


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    #120
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    1hottmofo wrote: »
    Lets play the worlds smallest violin

    You would swear by the way your carping on that theyre on minimum wage

    I don't know what they are on as i'm not a PS employee but from reading posts here they are not on great wages at all.
    What I do know is that they were being shafted and needed to stand up and fight.
    I want my nurse and doctor to have pride in their work and feel useful. not treated like a second class citizen and not have pride in their job.


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    #121
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Musicmental85 wrote: »
    I can't speak for all unions but our union stated that this was not bargaining, the government laid out what they wanted and that was it. This rankled with a lot of unions, particularly those who weren't even in the room. This wasn't a negotiation

    Well according the media those who remained in discussions got some concessions and those who left negotiations where given little or none. I guess they may have been misinformed.


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