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Would you wear an Easter Lily?

24567…10

Comments

  • #52
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Nope. All British soldiers post 1914.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_British_Legion
    http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/support-us/
    From your own article,
    he remembrance poppy (a Papaver rhoeas) has been used since 1920 to commemorate soldiers who have died in war. Inspired by the World War I poem "In Flanders Fields", they were first used by the American Legion to commemorate American soldiers who died in that war (1914–1918). They were then adopted by military veterans' groups in the Commonwealth; especially the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
    In the United States, the American Legion distributes crepe-paper poppies in exchange for contributions.[when?] "Poppy Day" is usually the same as or near Memorial Day in May.[35] However, many Legion groups also make poppies available around 11 November.[36]

    So it's originally an American symbol and not exclusively British.


  • #53
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    The British army caused "tremendous and irreparable damage to the people of Ireland."
    Yes they did but the poppy is not a British symbol.
    OCorcrainn wrote: »
    No it is not, you are using that excuse and false premise in a vain attempt to be unhypocritical.
    The IRA is not an illegal organisation now?


  • #54
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    More like I'm OK with a war declared by our democratically elected representatives, but not with a terrorist campaign waged by an organisation with no mandate other than its own sense of self-importance.

    The representatives of the Dail were not elected on the basis of waging war with Britain.
    Nor were most, if any of the TDs aware that the first shots of the war had even been fired when the Dail met.
    The Dail didn't officially declare war until some time into the conflict.

    The Provisional IRA was forced into existence in 1969 because of loyalist aggression, unionist discrimination, British ignorance and Free State cowardice.
    Nationalists in the north were under attack, it had to defend them.
    It didnt have the luxury of seeking a mandate. War was upon them wether they liked it or not. It was fight or die. I for one am glad they opted for the former.


  • #55
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    keithob wrote: »
    i think its important to honour and respect people who died for the republican cause.

    regardless of your political party beliefs now the people that are running this country are nothing short of muppets and those in oppostion are as bad if not worse.

    what is there to celebrate in 2016..??? nothing
    I'm sure when Fianna Fáil return to power in a year or 2, they will organise something to commemorate the event


  • #56
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Including those that murdered innocent people.

    If you want to wear one then fine, but do it based on its own merits, not as a reaction to people who wear a poppy.

    I respect peoples right to wear the poppy, but I find if I wear my symbol, I am told I support murderers when they get an International Day for what I see in some respects as the same.

    I support any side of any war respecting their dead, hell even the regular German soldiers who were just doing their job and did not realise how evil Nazism was deserve to be remembered.


  • #57
    golfball37
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,775 ✭✭✭golfball37


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    More like I'm OK with a war declared by our democratically elected representatives, but not with a terrorist campaign waged by an organisation with no mandate other than its own sense of self-importance.

    When was this exactly?

    You do know the war of Independence started the same day as the Dail met for the first time making your statement pure bunkem. A widower father of 7 was murdered by the IRA that day yet you wouldn't class that as terrorism? What about the women and children murdered in cold blood in Altnaveigh in 1922 also?

    The people carrying out that act and Easter had no mandate either. Nothing worse than a hypocrite. I despise all acts of terrorism, not cherry picked ones and I would certainly never condone ones the history books now say are all right.

    On topic- The Easter proclomation has no relevence to the current failed state we live in. The people running this state may well want to piggy back on men who made the ultimate sacrifice but what their stated aims were are too far away from modern Ireland for anyone to take it seriously. IMO.

    And by any International measuring standard, a grouping representing less than 10% of the population taking over a post office and firing weapons out on a public street could be called nothing less than Terrorism these days.


  • #58
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Not the most factual source, but a pretty accurate account;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy



    It is for ALL British Soldiers who have died at war, not just that particular one! So like I said, it's not for me, I'd rather my lily or perhaps a compromise of a White Poppy for all WWI dead, and not reference those who killed the innocent of my country, whatever their political and religion allegiance. I always wish to commemorate the innocent of BOTH sides of the divide.
    This is pretty much the same thing Jack said so I'll just post the same response to both. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83293294&postcount=52


  • #59
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    From your own article,




    So it's originally an American symbol and not exclusively British.

    Originally perhaps but not now. had you read the other links you would have seen that the only group allowed to produce and sell poppies in Britain and Ireland is the Royal British Legion. The money goes towards helping current and former british soldiers. The article also clearly states that the poppy is used in Britain to commemorate all post 1914 british soldiers.

    This thread however, is not about the poppy, it's about the Easter Lily.
    I wear one every year but on my own time.
    I wouldn't wear it into work or demand anybody else wear one.
    With that said, anyone who is in favour of Irish independence should have no issue with the lily.
    Like i said, the money goes to the National Graves Association. If anyone thinks it has become an exclusively Sinn Fein symbol then all they have to do is wear it to remedy that.
    Im sure sinn fein would love to see the SDLP, FF, FG, Labour and other Irish parties wearing the lily. It is not theirs, it's everybody's.


  • #60
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    golfball37 wrote: »
    You do know the war of Independence started the same day as the Dail met for the first time making your statement pure bunkem.

    And they issued a declaration of independence on the same day, demanding the evacuation of the British garrison.


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  • #61
    allthedoyles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    Yes will wear one again this year ..........are on eBay for a fiver and money goes to the NGA .

    www.nga.ie


  • #62
    uch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,019 ✭✭✭uch


    ahh it's that time of year again

    21/25



  • #63
    OCorcrainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭OCorcrainn


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yes they did but the poppy is not a British symbol.


    The IRA is not an illegal organisation now?

    It is not a symbol of the IRA, but out of interest which IRA are you referring to?

    I forgive you for your ignorance on the matter :). I remember in a thread about Sinn Féin you eventually brought up the Nazis.

    Not your fault that you are somewhat close-minded.


  • #64
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Originally perhaps but not now. had you read the other links you would have seen that the only group allowed to produce and sell poppies in Britain and Ireland is the Royal British Legion. The money goes towards helping current and former british soldiers. The article also clearly states that the poppy is used in Britain to commemorate all post 1914 british soldiers.

    This thread however, is not about the poppy, it's about the Easter Lily.
    I wear one every year but on my own time.
    I wouldn't wear it into work or demand anybody else wear one.
    With that said, anyone who is in favour of Irish independence should have no issue with the lily.
    Like i said, the money goes to the National Graves Association. If anyone thinks it has become an exclusively Sinn Fein symbol then all they have to do is wear it to remedy that.
    Im sure sinn fein would love to see the SDLP, FF, FG, Labour and other Irish parties wearing the lily. It is not theirs, it's everybody's.
    That's not the point, if the poppy was first used by the Americans then it is an international symbol, which means it can be used to remember the Irish fallen. So we have no need for the lily which makes it irrelevant.


  • #65
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    This is pretty much the same thing Jack said so I'll just post the same response to both.

    I am not sure if you missed it or selectively reading, so I will quote this tiny sentence
    The remembrance poppy has been used since 1920 to commemorate soldiers who have died in war.

    Not that it is to commemorate only the dead of that war, but since then for those who die in war in general.


  • #66
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    OCorcrainn wrote: »
    It is not a symbol of the IRA, but out of interest which IRA are you referring to?
    The lily does not commemorate one particular branch.
    OCorcrainn wrote: »
    I forgive you for your ignorance on the matter :). I remember in a thread about Sinn Féin you eventually brought up the Nazis.
    No I juxtaposed the ideals of Irish unity with Anschluss. An interesting comparison I was reminded of when one poster said Irish unity would not be annexation since we are the one people.
    OCorcrainn wrote: »
    Not your fault that you are somewhat close-minded.
    I try to see both sides of the argument but I guess unlike you I just find it hard to sympathise with terrorists.


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  • #67
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That's not the point, if the poppy was first used by the Americans then it is an international symbol, which means it can be used to remember the Irish fallen. So we have no need for the lily which makes it irrelevant.

    The Lily represents ALL Irish dead, so yes, it is relevant.


  • #68
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Not that it is to commemorate only the dead of that war, but since then for those who die in war in general.
    So then you agree the poppy represents the Irish dead?
    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    The Lily represents ALL Irish dead, so yes, it is relevant.
    You didn't read my post.


  • #69
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I try to see both sides of the argument but I guess unlike you I just find it hard to sympathise with terrorists.

    I assume this is your attempt at humour, no matter what the thread, you refuse to see what the "terrorists" (as you call them) were fighting for because they were the opposition to your beliefs.


  • #70
    OCorcrainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭OCorcrainn


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I try to see both sides of the argument but I guess unlike you I just find it hard to sympathise with terrorists.

    So the Lily represents terrorists? So the Irish men who fought and died in WW1, Easter 1916, War of Independence, WW2, with the UN in the Congo/Lebanon are all terrorists are they? :rolleyes:

    I learned that very often the most intolerant and narrow-minded people are the ones who congratulate themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness.
    Christopher Hitchens


  • #71
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That's not the point, if the poppy was first used by the Americans then it is an international symbol, which means it can be used to remember the Irish fallen. So we have no need for the lily which makes it irrelevant.

    That's completely the point. It doesnt matter who first used it, all three of those links i put up show that the poppy today commemorates all post 1914 British soldiers and the money from its sale goes to british soldiers.
    The world war one lie is used to guilt people into buying it.

    Anyway, enough about that odious symbol, this thread is about the Easter Lily


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  • #72
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    I assume this is your attempt at humour, no matter what the thread, you refuse to see what the "terrorists" (as you call them) were fighting for because they were the opposition to your beliefs.
    Not in opposition to my beliefs. If I were living in WWI era I'd want independence too. I disagree totally with their methods though.


  • #73
    Hunterbiker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭Hunterbiker


    wolfpawnat wrote: »

    Yet the Brits have a whole month of remembering their war dead and if you are a celeb or tv personality that doesn't wear their poppy, you are condemned by many.

    The poppy is a UK symbol of remembrance and is used by the Royal British Legion in an annual fundraiser. It's a very effective campaign - it brings in a shed load of cash and as you say you won't see many TV types who don't wear a poppy. The only one who consistantly doesn't is a broadcaster called John Snow. He refuses point blank to wear that or any other symbol. He is villified at times but couldn't care less.

    I would say that whilst the charity money goes to support the RBL's charity work and that is spent on UK exforces etc the actual main Rememberance events in the UK (Cenotaph parade etc) remember ALL war dead from The Commonwealth (Empire Forces) and UK (including Ireland) forces who have fought in wars - regardless of any official representation from Irish Government.

    UK Commonwealth War Graves Commission still look after and maintain all cemetries and memorials (where they can get access) for commonwealth War Dead - this includes the Irish casualties from WW1 (and later). It's funded by various commonwealth Governments but UK pay about 78% of the total.


  • #74
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    So then you agree the poppy represents the Irish dead?

    When did I ever deny that?:confused: I merely said I want nothing to do with that flower because of what it implies regarding the British Soldiers in my country.


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You didn't read my post.
    I did, I feel that you dismissing a country's personal symbol as "irrelevant" because you personally don't agree with it was worth arguing though.


  • #75
    Kylee Miniature Pussycat
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Kylee Miniature Pussycat


    Plenty of irish people die all the time, I'm not wearing a lily for them or for this nonsense


  • #76
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    That's completely the point. It doesnt matter who first used it, all three of those links i put up show that the poppy today commemorates all post 1914 British soldiers and the money from its sale goes to british soldiers.
    The world war one lie is used to guilt people into buying it.

    Anyway, enough about that odious symbol, this thread is about the Easter Lily
    No they don't,
    In the United States, the American Legion distributes crepe-paper poppies in exchange for contributions.[when?] "Poppy Day" is usually the same as or near Memorial Day in May.[35] However, many Legion groups also make poppies available around 11 November.[36]

    I know this thread is about the lily bu that's the point. If the poppy represents Irish soldiers, without the negative connections of the IRA then this makes the lily irrelevant, useful only by those who want to commemorate the atrocities carried out by the Irish paramilitaries.


  • #77
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Not in opposition to my beliefs. If I were living in WWI era I'd want independence too. I disagree totally with their methods though.

    Are you not aware of the peaceful means Charles Stewart Parnell and his likes had tried for with Home Rule for years before. In all fairness, Ireland had tried both methods over and over. There is only so long people will be dismissed by political means before they try other ones.

    Can you blame them really?


  • #78
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 54,285 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The poppy represents all wars post 1914, but a lot of people who buy it do so to only commemorate the 2 world wars. Certainly they are the main focus.


  • #79
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    When did I ever deny that?:confused: I merely said I want nothing to do with that flower because of what it implies regarding the British Soldiers in my country.
    Well if it represents "those who die in war in general." Then it must also represent the Irish who died in war.
    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    I did, I feel that you dismissing a country's personal symbol as "irrelevant" because you personally don't agree with it was worth arguing though.
    1. The lily is not our national symbol.
    2. I agree with independence but not terrorism.
    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Are you not aware of the peaceful means Charles Stewart Parnell and his likes had tried for with Home Rule for years before. In all fairness, Ireland had tried both methods over and over. There is only so long people will be dismissed by political means before they try other ones.
    I am, and home rule was coming, it was suspended until the conclusion of the war.
    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Can you blame them really?
    Yes.


  • #80
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 54,285 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Well if it represents "those who die in war in general." Then it must also represent the Irish who died in war.

    It does. It commemorates anyone who fought in the British Army, nationality doesn't matter. A lot of Irishmen fought during the world wars and the poppy commemorates them.


  • #81
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,065 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    I wouldn't give a fu(k either way, and i don't know why other people would care


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  • #82
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    The day Gerry Adams stops wearing one.


  • #83
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    No they don't,

    well, now you're just lying, yes they do.
    Today, they are mainly used in the UK and Canada to commemorate their servicemen and women who have been killed since 1914.
    the Legion is a campaigning organisation that promotes the welfare and interests of current and former members of the British Armed Forces.
    The Legion holds a fund-raising drive each year in the weeks before Remembrance Sunday, during which artificial red poppies, meant to be worn on clothing, are offered to the public in return for a donation to the Legion. According to the Legion, "The red poppy is our registered mark and its only lawful use is to raise funds for the Poppy Appeal".[2]
    The Poppy Appeal is the Legion's major fundraising campaign with a target of £42 million for 2012. We need donations all year for our vital work helping the whole Armed Forces family.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I know this thread is about the lily bu that's the point. If the poppy represents Irish soldiers, without the negative connections of the IRA then this makes the lily irrelevant, useful only by those who want to commemorate the atrocities carried out by the Irish paramilitaries.

    The poppy does not represent Irish soldiers. No Irish soldiers fought in WW1. It may represent Irish people duped into fighting for the British Army. They are British soldiers.

    I do not find the lily's connections with the IRA to be negative in the least. Of course it has a special link to Easter 1916 but it represents all Ireland's patriot dead and I am quite happy to honour them.


  • #84
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    donvito99 wrote: »
    The day Gerry Adams stops wearing one.

    I believe he also wears underwear. Are you opposed to it as well. What a sad life you must lead if your actions and opinions are based on what Gerry Adams does or doesnt do


  • #85
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 54,285 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    The poppy does not represent Irish soldiers. No Irish soldiers fought in WW1. It may represent Irish people duped into fighting for the British Army. They are British soldiers.
    How do you expect to be taken seriously when you come out with things like that?

    Duped?

    God forbid that these men felt that they wanted to get involved and help out. :rolleyes:

    There were entire Irish divisions of the British Army at that time, I feel you are being a bit disrespectful toward the many Irish men who gave their lives during that period. :(


  • #86
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,070 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    I wouldn't wear one, for the same reasons I wouldn't wear a Poppy etc. It's a pretty 'hallmark' way to show respect or remembrance for the dead imo.

    If you really want to show respect, attend a ceremony with your family or visit the grave of your relatives etc. Wearing a silly plastic flower for one day of the year is a tad on the lazy side. And no matter what anyone says; some people do use it as a political gesture and can't shut up about it.


  • #87
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    The poppy does not represent Irish soldiers. No Irish soldiers fought in WW1. It may represent Irish people duped into fighting for the British Army. They are British soldiers.
    1. Fighting in the British army does not make you British.
    2. The poppy does not commemorate British soldiers as pointed out to you before it was the Americans who first wore them.
    3. The poppy is an international symbol used to commemorate all those who died in wars since 1914, it is not a British symbol.
    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    I do not find the lily's connections with the IRA to be negative in the least. Of course it has a special link to Easter 1916 but it represents all Ireland's patriot dead and I am quite happy to honour them.
    Honour terrorists all you want, freedom of expression and all that, but I won't be joining you. And thankfully from looking around the streets of our fair capital the vast majority of people agree with me.


  • #88
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    well, now you're just lying, yes they do.
    Read your own quote.

    "Today, they are mainly used in the UK and Canada to commemorate their servicemen and women who have been killed since 1914."

    Mainly is not always and here is a counter example to prove it
    "In the United States, the American Legion distributes crepe-paper poppies in exchange for contributions.[when?] "Poppy Day" is usually the same as or near Memorial Day in May.[35] However, many Legion groups also make poppies available around 11 November.[36]"

    Both from the same wikipedia article.


  • #89
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Crooked Jack wrote: »

    well, now you're just lying, yes they do.











    The poppy does not represent Irish soldiers. No Irish soldiers fought in WW1. It may represent Irish people duped into fighting for the British Army. They are British soldiers.

    I do not find the lily's connections with the IRA to be negative in the least. Of course it has a special link to Easter 1916 but it represents all Ireland's patriot dead and I am quite happy to honour them.

    And the shark just got jumped


  • #90
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    awec wrote: »
    How do you expect to be taken seriously when you come out with things like that?

    Duped?

    God forbid that these men felt that they wanted to get involved and help out. :rolleyes:

    There were entire Irish divisions of the British Army at that time, I feel you are being a bit disrespectful toward the many Irish men who gave their lives during that period. :(

    Yes, duped. You really think the thousands of Irish Volunteers who signed up to be cannon fodder in Flanders on the word of Redmond that they would be rewarded with freedom actually had any interest in fighting England's wars for it.
    They were told Home Rule would be their reward and they got the opposite.
    Duped.
    I wonder how many of them on returning home wished they had stood side by side with their comrades in Dublin rather than doing the british empire's dirty work.


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  • #91
    hames
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭hames


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Im sure sinn fein would love to see the SDLP, FF, FG, Labour and other Irish parties wearing the lily. It is not theirs, it's everybody's.
    I wouldn't be so sure.

    For all their supposed regrets over the troubles, there are those in SF who still think the havoc they wreaked in Northern Ireland entitles them to some higher or more noble tier in Irish Republicanism.


  • #92
    Thomas_I
    Closed Accounts Posts: 596 ✭✭✭Thomas_I


    OCorcrainn wrote: »
    Proportionally more Irish died in WW I than perhaps any other nationality fighting for the Allies, than you have the people who fought and died in the 1916 Easter Rising, War of Independence and onwards (UN peacekeepers who lost their lives). Yet a stroll through Ireland coming up to Easter notes the relative absence of wearing the lily to mark our fallen family members and people who died for Ireland. Every country marks such a thing with such a symbol in remembrance and even have national day of remembrance? What about ust, we lack a national holiday ? Do we,the Irish people and government tacitly ignore our histroy?

    Has the Civil War, the Troubles ( pro/anti Treaty, paramilitaries etc ) somehow given us a collective amnesia or is it that we prefer to reflect in silence on the anniversary of the Rising? The great tragedy being that, nearly a hundred years later, it is still very ambigous just exactly what people were fighting for? Please can I especially appeal to those who lost family members to discuss whether they wear the Easter Lily or otherwise mark the sad passing of the dead?


    Note: The money does not go into 'prisoner funds' or Sinn Féin's pockets, it goes towards preserving graves and memorials for those who died.

    That´s the problems you´ve mentioned and it´s a sad thing that still political stances and ideologies makes it hard to commemorate the dead without that.

    I´m no Irishman and even if I would be one, I´d find it hard to wear it because this symbol is too close related to SF or other Republican splinter groups, so I wouldn´t wear it. I´d say that it´s time for them to move on and embrace those who gave their lives fighting in WWI prior to the Easter Rising. These were also Irishmen. What a disgrace such people are showing to their own dead fellowmen in excluding them from commemoration. That is imo beyond any reason and therefore a very sad thing.


  • #93
    OCorcrainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭OCorcrainn


    I will reiterate as some people here are clueless or are just refusing to accept the facts about the poppy.
    It has been hijacked by the Royal British Legion, you will be strongly criticized in the UK if you are seen wearing a White Poppy rather than the Red Poppy, and the Red Poppy is only used in remembrance for British soldiers in WW1 and beyond.

    But by all means wear the White Poppy, which is supposed to symbolize peace just don't wear the red one.


  • #94
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,070 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Honour terrorists all you want, freedom of expression and all that, but I won't be joining you.

    And how many British soldiers have been found guilty of murder and torture and other human rights abuses over the years? But yeah.. funny how it's only seen as 'honouring terrorists' when it suits you.

    The Poppy doesn't just represent the good of British military history... there's a whole shitload of bad in there too.


  • #95
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    1. Fighting in the British army does not make you British.
    2. The poppy does not commemorate British soldiers as pointed out to you before it was the Americans who first wore them.
    3. The poppy is an international symbol used to commemorate all those who died in wars since 1914, it is not a British symbol.

    1 - What a blatant straw man. You even quoted my post but still said it. Jesus. Anyway, as anyone with the ability to read can see I clearly said joining the British Army makes you a British soldier. Are you really disputing that?

    2 - This is not America. Poppies in Britain and Ireland are distributed by the Royal British Legion, their meaning and where the proceeds go is quite explicit.

    3 - No it is not, particularly not here. see point number two above.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Honour terrorists all you want, freedom of expression and all that, but I won't be joining you. And thankfully from looking around the streets of our fair capital the vast majority of people agree with me.

    Setting aside your ridiculous terrorist jibe, I have no issue with you not wearing a lily. Thankfully the Easter Lily hasnt become associated with the type of poppy fascism seen in Britain and the north.
    Looking around the streets of our fair capital the vast majority of people agree with me on the poppy.
    I also dont know when or where you've been looking but I've seen plenty of lilies in Dublin in the past


  • #96
    OCorcrainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭OCorcrainn


    awec wrote: »
    I feel you are being a bit disrespectful toward the many Irish men who gave their lives during that period. :(

    I will tell you what is disrespectful.

    Those Irish men, the veterans of the 1st World War who went off to shed their blood in No Man's Land who than came back home to Ireland and had to watch helplessly as their wives and daughters were raped and homes burnt down by the same British army they fought for.




    Edit: PS - They would never have worn the poppy.


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  • #97
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Well if it represents "those who die in war in general." Then it must also represent the Irish who died in war.


    1. The lily is not our national symbol.
    2. I agree with independence but not terrorism.

    And I never disputed that, I just said I did not like it because of who it also represented that I personally do not agree with.

    The poppy is not our national symbol either, the Lily was designed by a woman who lost two of her sons in the Civil War, so like the Poppy, it's beginnings were different to it's general assumption today.

    And they were retaliating to the acts of terrorism that were inflicted on them. They fought fire with fire, so if one side is guilty of terrorism, then surely the other is too?


  • #98
    Hunterbiker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭Hunterbiker


    OCorcrainn wrote: »

    I will tell you what is disrespectful.

    Those Irish men, the veterans of the 1st World War who went off to shed their blood in No Man's Land who than came back home to Ireland....

    Those that bothered to come back that is about 200,000 volunteered about 35K (actual Irish people not just serving in an Irish Regt) killed and about 100,000 came back...

    Those that did weren't exactly welcomed by certain sections of society...and those that didnt come home probably knew their life would be a made a living hell by many of those who chose not to fight...


  • #99
    OCorcrainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭OCorcrainn


    Hunterbiker wrote: »
    Those that bothered to come back that is about 200,000 volunteered about 35K (actual Irish people not just serving in an Irish Regt) killed and about 100,000 came back...

    Those that did weren't exactly welcomed by certain sections of society...and those that didnt come home probably knew their life would be a made a living hell by many of those who chose not to fight...


    Oh yeah..like Tom Barry, he was despised by nationalists. :pac:


  • #100
    Hunterbiker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭Hunterbiker


    OCorcrainn wrote: »


    Oh yeah..like Tom Barry, he was despised by nationalists. :pac:
    True. I didn't mean to suggest all of them were subjected to poor treatment by republicans just theones that weren't Republicans...


  • #101
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Hunterbiker wrote: »
    True. I didn't mean to suggest all of them were subjected to poor treatment by republicans just theones that weren't Republicans...

    It's kind of understandable though. These people returned home in British uniforms to a populace that had watched the British army sack Dublin, hack civilians to bits and then execute the leaders of the rising.

    Republicanism was on the rise and there was a strong anti-british sentiment in the country.
    Most people would not have been happy about a proud British soldier moving in next door


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