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Would you wear an Easter Lily?

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    #182
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    wolfpawnat wrote: »

    That's fair enough too. Amazing stories in your family no doubt :D

    Aye.. fair amount of bitterness too, mind :pac:

    That's what I hate most about this type of discussion. Bunkering down on any one 'side' will end up sucking the life out of you!


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    #183
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That's exactly the point, when you encompass both communities into one symbol you deny them one more thing to hate each other over.


    Yes it does.


    So you think these people should receive cash and aid?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/09/malaya-massacre-villagers-coverup

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/18/colonial-office-eliminations-malayan-insurgency

    And do you think wars to sustain an empire are somehow justified?


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    #184
    Lome
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Lome


    lockon... wrote: »
    Go to a national graveyard and look for the graves which say "Maintained by NGA" and you'll recognise the balaclava wearers.

    Does that take anything away from these heroes??? these guys didn't wear anything but pride and love for there country...

    If the NGA didnt look after the graves they would be let rot away and forgotten about ... something you and the other fools obviously wouldn't care about..


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    #185
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    As smebody who always wears a poppy, I would have no problem with somebody wearing an Easter Lily anymore, specially after the Queens visit and the new complex understandings we now have as Irish people. Not so long ago I would have hissed and tut tutted (internally) if I saw somebody wearing an Easter Lily, so it seems (like most folk) I've mellowed and made progress since peace broke out, and the Queen worked her magic . . .

    There are of course some hardline Lily wearing IRA N types who keep banging on about Mayalasia, Kenya, Iraq, and so on, who will never ease off on their hatred for the Poppy and the Hundreds of thousands of Irish men that symbol represents.


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    #186
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Aye.. fair amount of bitterness too, mind :pac:

    That's what I hate most about this type of discussion. Bunkering down on any one 'side' will end up sucking the life out of you!

    I have a friend, his parents were getting married and his two grandfathers were talking. It came to light one was a RUC officer who worked in a barracks that was raided in the War of Independence, the other was in the group that did the raid! This was revealed in the afters of the wedding! I could well imagine it would have been an interesting evening after that. :D:pac:


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    #187
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    gallag wrote: »
    Image being told to go over the top, to certain doom. every body of every man who went before you without returning still there.

    There's a very poignant clip of a WW1 over-the-top and one poor guy doesn't even get out of the trench (must have taken a bullet in the face) so he can die alongside his mates.

    Horrible waste of life in a meat-grinder of a war.


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    #188
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    LordSutch wrote: »
    As smebody who always wears a poppy, I would have no problem with somebody wearing an Easter Lilly anymore, specially after the Queens visit and the new complex understandings we now have as Irish people.

    Not so long ago I would have hissed and tut tutted (internally) if I saw somebody wearing an Easter Lilly, so it seems (like most folk) I've mellowed and made progress since peace broke out, and the Queen worked her magic . . .

    Don't worry, I'd be doing it to you too :D


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    #189
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nodin wrote: »
    So you think these people should receive cash and aid?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/09/malaya-massacre-villagers-coverup

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/18/colonial-office-eliminations-malayan-insurgency
    No but denying them the money is an internal matter.

    Nodin wrote: »
    And do you think wars to sustain an empire are somehow justified?
    No but again for God only knows how many times the poppy is not a British symbol.


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    #190
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    LordSutch wrote: »
    ..............
    There are of course some hardline Lily wearing IRA N types who keep banging on about Mayalasia, Kenya, Iraq, and so on, who will never ease off on their hatred for the Poppy and the Hundreds of thousands of Irish men that symbol represents.

    'Anti-imperialists'. Could have save yerself a lot typing there.


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    #191
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    No but denying them the money is an internal matter..

    As many of these events were either condoned or a matter of policy, they won't be denied any benefits whatsoever.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    No but again for God only knows how many times the poppy is not a British symbol.


    ...which, as the only one sold here is the British legion one, is rather irrelevant.


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    #192
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    And here he is, bang (excuse the pun) on time . . .

    Always wondered me old 'hero' do you guys wear those black berrets & sunglasses at the weekends? or are they just for formal events?


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    #193
    Joe10000
    Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭Joe10000


    I have often worn one and taken part in many commemorations and marches in support of the men and women of this country who died for our country's independence.

    Having said that we've made some balls of it since.


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    #194
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nodin wrote: »
    As many of these events were either condoned or a matter of policy, they won't be denied any benefits whatsoever.
    What do you want to do? Persecute soldiers carrying out their orders? They had no choice, persecute the top brass but again that's an internal matter for the British, none of our business.


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...which, as the only one sold here is the British legion one, is rather irrelevant.
    What If I started selling poppies and gave the money to the Irish veterans (I'm sure there's some organisation) would you wear the poppy then?


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    #195
    Lome
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Lome


    LordSutch wrote: »
    And here he is, bang (excuse the pun) on time . . .

    Always wondered me old 'hero' do you guys wear those black berrets & sunglasses at the weekends? or are they just for formal events?

    are you irish?


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    #196
    OCorcrainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭OCorcrainn


    LordSutch wrote: »
    And here he is, bang (excuse the pun) on time . . .

    Always wondered me old 'hero' do you guys wear those black berrets & sunglasses at the weekends? or are they just for formal events?

    I have never worn them.


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    #197
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    What do you want to do? Persecute soldiers carrying out their orders? They had no choice, persecute the top brass but again that's an internal matter for the British, none of our business.

    Yet you have no problem with organisations soliciting funds over here for them.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    What If I started selling poppies and gave the money to the Irish veterans (I'm sure there's some organisation) would you wear the poppy then?


    Only if it was (a) dedicated to the Irish who've died in ww1, ww2 and for the Irish Defence Forces (b) clearly distinguishable from the RBL one.


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    #198
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    lockon... wrote: »
    and the Queen worked her magic . . .

    Yes, magic alright, saying as the half of Ireland swallowed her hollow words and disregarded the fact that her forces are still bombing and terrorising people into the acceptence of their 'gifts' around the world.


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    #199
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nodin wrote: »
    Yet you have no problem with organisations soliciting funds over here for them.
    So you want to toss out the whole apple cart over a few bad ones. Doesn't work like that.
    Nodin wrote: »
    Only if it was (a) dedicated to the Irish who've died in ww1, ww2 and for the Irish Defence Forces (b) clearly distinguishable from the RBL one.
    A. Yes it would.
    B. No it wouldn't that would defeat the purpose. The poppy is not a British symbol. Part of it would be reclaiming this international symbol as our own.


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    #200
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    LordSutch wrote: »
    As smebody who always wears a poppy, I would have no problem with somebody wearing an Easter Lily anymore, specially after the Queens visit and the new complex understandings we now have as Irish people. Not so long ago I would have hissed and tut tutted (internally) if I saw somebody wearing an Easter Lily, so it seems (like most folk) I've mellowed and made progress since peace broke out, and the Queen worked her magic . . .

    There are of course some hardline Lily wearing IRA N types who keep banging on about Mayalasia, Kenya, Iraq, and so on, who will never ease off on their hatred for the Poppy and the Hundreds of thousands of Irish men that symbol represents.

    I forgot that it was the Queen we had to thank for the mellowing of tensions between our two Nations.

    As for the hardliners who, as you say, bang on about some of the less than admirable actions of the British Military, one can hardly argue that these people have some kind of unique viewpoint. Hell, It hardly takes an Irish Nationalist to look beyond the tropes of Jingoism and have even an inkling of critical insight.

    Personally, I wouldn't wear either the Poppy or the Lilly, for I've never been one for pinning my Political affiliations on my lapel.


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    #201
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    What if I made poppies, sold them and donated the money to the Irish armed forces. How would you view the poppy? It obviously isn't a British symbol then. Would you wear one? What if I stamped a republican symbol on it?

    You keep repeating this as if it's some kind of great point you're making. It's not. If you made your own unofficial poppy, symbolising something else and sending the money elsewhere with a republican stamp on it then it wouldnt be a poppy would it. You'd just be some loon going round selling a badge promising to give the money to the defence forces.

    What point are you trying to make here. it's nonsensical.


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    #202
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Happyman42 wrote: »

    Yes, magic alright, saying as the half of Ireland swallowed her hollow words and disregarded the fact that her forces are still bombing and terrorising people into the acceptence of their 'gifts' around the world.
    Sad. Serious question, what would it take to get you to move on? Are you not happy at the chance for our countries to build bridges? Was proud watching the queen bow in the garden of remembrance.


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    #203
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    You keep repeating this as if it's some kind of great point you're making. It's not. If you made your own unofficial poppy, symbolising something else and sending the money elsewhere with a republican stamp on it then it wouldnt be a poppy would it. You'd just be some loon going round selling a badge promising to give the money to the defence forces.

    What point are you trying to make here. it's nonsensical.
    I don't intend to repeat it it just keeps coming up.

    Republican: The poppy is a British symbol.
    Me: No it's not. It's international.
    Republican: It's British here because only the British sell them.
    Me: Since anyone can sell them they aren't British, here or anywhere.
    Republican: The poppy is a British symbol.
    ...
    Ad infinitum.


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    #204
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    So you want to toss out the whole apple cart over a few bad ones. Doesn't work like that.
    .

    The whole enterprise of the cart was a rotten one. Why should I support veterans of imperial/colonial wars?
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    A. Yes it would.
    B. No it wouldn't that would defeat the purpose. The poppy is not a British symbol. Part of it would be reclaiming this international symbol as our own.

    This is a nice design. I like it.
    http://www.bikers-stuffwholesale.com/catalog/IronCrossEmbeddedSkull.jpg

    I won't wear it or anything like it, nor have tattoos like it, because its associated with the far right. The poppy in this part of the world is associated with the British army, and funding the veterans of its imperialist conflicts. As a result, I won't wear it (though if the funds were for whats described, I would donate the cash).


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    #205
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    philologos wrote: »
    I'm not very patriotic so no. I was born in Ireland it was a hood place to grow up in but the truth is if God willed it I could have been born in Botswana.

    You do wear the Poppy, though.

    I recall it being something very dear to your heart.


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    #206
    Lome
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Lome


    gallag wrote: »
    Sad. Serious question, what would it take to get you to move on? Are you not happy at the chance for our countries to build bridges? Was proud watching the queen bow in the garden of remembrance.

    F*Ck her and everything she stands for. They have done far far far too much to be forgiven especially when all she has done is a PR stunt in the Garden of Remembrance and muttered a few words in Irish... you have fools like Mary Mcaleese in awe of the whole thing... it makes me cringe when i hear here say "wow" about 3 times... its an act, open your eyes


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    #207
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    The poppy is not a British symbol. Part of it would be reclaiming this international symbol as our own.

    http://www.poppyscotland.org.uk/education/public/media/PS44_large.jpg

    This is the National American Legion poppy. As you can plainly see it's a different badge, from a different organisation representing something completely different to the british one.
    The one we see here, indeed the only one that you can get here, is indeed a British symbol, property of the Royal british Legion and representative of the british army (not civilians killed in war) and all their actions from 1914 onwards with the proceeds going to british soldiers.

    Now will you quit this rubbish that the poppy is some sort of non-partisan symbol that we can all unite behind


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    #208
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Lome wrote: »
    are you irish?

    Yeah, I know, weird isnt it!

    An Irish person who didn't support the Provisional IRA :confused:


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    #209
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Crooked Jack
    Location: South Armagh


    I see...

    Don't let your myopic World-View get in the way of a good argument!


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    #210
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Yeah, I know, weird isnt it!

    An Irish person who didn't support the Provisional IRA :confused:


    Well no. Its the whole southern unionist thing people get hung up over.


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    #211
    Lome
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Lome


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Yeah, I know, weird isnt it!

    An Irish person who didn't support the Provisional IRA :confused:

    no an irish person who quiet obviously is ashamed of where he is from... i suppose you think the GAA is a backwards organisation... you just seem like u are anti - Irish... bit of a be!! end to be fair


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