Would you wear an Easter Lily?

OCorcrainn

Proportionally more Irish died in WW I than perhaps any other nationality fighting for the Allies, than you have the people who fought and died in the 1916 Easter Rising, War of Independence and onwards (UN peacekeepers who lost their lives). Yet a stroll through Ireland coming up to Easter notes the relative absence of wearing the lily to mark our fallen family members and people who died for Ireland. Every country marks such a thing with such a symbol in remembrance and even have national day of remembrance? What about ust, we lack a national holiday ? Do we,the Irish people and government tacitly ignore our histroy?

Has the Civil War, the Troubles ( pro/anti Treaty, paramilitaries etc ) somehow given us a collective amnesia or is it that we prefer to reflect in silence on the anniversary of the Rising? The great tragedy being that, nearly a hundred years later, it is still very ambigous just exactly what people were fighting for? Please can I especially appeal to those who lost family members to discuss whether they wear the Easter Lily or otherwise mark the sad passing of the dead?


Note: The money does not go into 'prisoner funds' or Sinn Féin's pockets, it goes towards preserving graves and memorials for those who died.

hooradiation

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Proportionally more Irish died in WW I than perhaps any other nationality fighting for the Allies, than you have the people who fought and died in the 1916 Easter Rising, War of Independence and onwards (UN peacekeepers who lost their lives). Yet a stroll through Ireland coming up to Easter notes the relative absence of wearing the lily to mark our fallen family members and people who died for Ireland. Every country marks such a thing with such a symbol in remembrance and even have national day of remembrance? What about ust, we lack a national holiday ? Do we,the Irish people and government tacitly ignore our histroy?

Has the Civil War, the Troubles ( pro/anti Treaty, paramilitaries etc ) somehow given us a collective amnesia or is it that we prefer to reflect in silence on the anniversary of the Rising? The great tragedy being that, nearly a hundred years later, it is still very ambigous just exactly what people were fighting for? Please can I especially appeal to those who lost family members to discuss whether they wear the Easter Lily or otherwise mark the sad passing of the dead?

I'll wear it if this topic fucks off and never comes back.

Odysseus

I would love to wear one, if the money raised went towards the families and events that support the rising. The money raised at the monent just goes into SF's account ynless I'm wrong.

Sauve

It's almost a hundred years ago, as you said.
It's probably time to move on.

BraziliaNZ

I really don't know where people get time to give a f*ck about this nonsense

OCorcrainn

Sauve wrote: »

It's almost a hundred years ago, as you said.
It's probably time to move on.

It is not just used to commerate 1916, read the rest of the OP and you would have seen that.

Lenin Skynard

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I really don't know where people get time to give a f*ck about this nonsense

You have the time to comment on people having the time to give a f*ck about something. They probably got their time in the same place you got yours.

Gloomtastic!

I voted no and it didn't register!

Feckin Fenians............

kfallon

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I really don't know where people get time to give a f*ck about this nonsense

Probably the same place you get your time to come on boards asking where people get their time to give a f*ck about this 'nonsense'

Sauve

OCorcrainn wrote: »

It is not just used to commerate 1916, read the rest of the OP and you would have seen that.

I did read the OP and I'm well aware of what it stands for. My point that I think we should move on still stands.

Lenin Skynard

kfallon wrote: »

Probably the same place you get your time to come on boards asking where people get their time to give a f*ck about this 'nonsense'

I would comment that I posted the same thing two posts above but I really don't have the time. In fact I have so little time that I shall finish ending this sentence and then stop posting.

toodles

luv ya byeeee!

Crooked Jack

Odysseus wrote: »

I would love to wear one, if the money raised went towards the families and events that support the rising. The money raised at the monent just goes into SF's account ynless I'm wrong.

You are wrong. It mostly goes to the upkeep of republican graves and memorials such as those in Glasnevin Cemetery.
Just check who you are buying it off. If it's a dissident crowd then it likely goes to a prisoner fund. Otherwise it's graves and the like.

Where To

Never.

gallag

A _ _ _ _ j _ _ _ _ _.

Crooked Jack

Where To wrote: »

Never.

why?

Crooked Jack

hooradiation wrote: »

I'll wear it if this topic fucks off and never comes back.

Why do people who have been here for years feel the need to get on like this? The OP clearly just signed up last month so they obviously haven't seen the threads you have.
Just dont read it if you don't want to take part.
If we ban any topic that has come up before you'll soon see the website shut down altogether.

Chips Lovell

It's kind of been hijacked as a symbol by provo types. So, no.

JonSnuuu

Would never buy one. The money goes towards stupid things.

Wouldn't mind the money going to upkeep some of the republican graves, but I would never give money to some "prisoner fund".

Nothing gets me more riled up than the whole Bobby Sands attitude some people have towards IRA prisoners, why some people think that these people deserve our pity and money is beyond. They broke the law, they're in a paramilitary terrorist organisation. The IRA these days are scum and nothing else.

Where To

Crooked Jack wrote: »

why?

Same reason I wouldn't wear a poppy, or a swastika, or a star of David, it's a political symbol.

Crooked Jack

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It's kind of been hijacked as a symbol by provo types. So, no.

Firstly, the Provos no longer exist.
Secondly, it hasn't been hijacked by anyone, it means now what it always meant.

Iwasfrozen

The question is rather loaded, you're not going to see a fair result op.

gobnaitolunacy

I have one from a deceased relative, but wouldn't wear it. I don't feel the need to 'advertise' or show my allegiance to anything.

Had I had a relative that fought in WW1 or 2 I wouldn't feel the need to wear a poppy either. Both symbols have got historical baggage that I'd rather not have anything to do with.

If I want to 'remember' someone who has died I visit a graveyard.

Odysseus

Crooked Jack wrote: »

You are wrong. It mostly goes to the upkeep of republican graves and memorials such as those in Glasnevin Cemetery.
Just check who you are buying it off. If it's a dissident crowd then it likely goes to a prisoner fund. Otherwise it's graves and the like.

Can you verify that, because if that was correct, I think it is an
important enough topic to be acknowledge.

Chips Lovell

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Firstly, the Provos no longer exist.
Secondly, it hasn't been hijacked by anyone, it means now what it always meant.

I think you know exactly what I mean. So you're saying that the Easter Lilly hasn't transformed from a symbol of remembering the dead of the war of independence on to include glorifying IRA terrorists as well? Coulda fooled me.

wolfpawnat

Sauve wrote: »

It's almost a hundred years ago, as you said.
It's probably time to move on.

Yet the Brits have a whole month of remembering their war dead and if you are a celeb or tv personality that doesn't wear their poppy, you are condemned by many.


Yes, I see it as a way of remembering every Irish person who has died for Ireland, from WWI, to the Rising, to the victims of BOTH Bloody Sundays to even those who died in 1974 in the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings and everyone in between, before and after!

kowloon

I wear a brass phallus all year round in memory of the Peloponnesian wars.

Crooked Jack

Odysseus wrote: »

Can you verify that, because if that was correct, I think it is an
important enough topic to be acknowledge.

I did a story on it about two or three years ago and the proceeds of any official lilies bought go to the National Graves Association (www.nga.ie)
I'm trying to find a more recent link but here's the first one I found. It's the launch of Sinn Fein's 2011 Easter Lily campaign and it was launched in conjunction with people from the NGA. Gerry Kelly also urges people to support the work of the NGA in it.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/20443

It's just common sense. If you're buying it from Sinn Fein or an authorised seller, that's where it goes, but if you throw a quid in a bucket for one at and anti-PSNI white line picket it's probably going elsewhere.

Iwasfrozen

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Yet the Brits have a whole month of remembering their war dead and if you are a celeb or tv personality that doesn't wear their poppy, you are condemned by many.


Yes, I see it as a way of remembering every Irish person who has died for Ireland, from WWI, to the Rising, to the victims of BOTH Bloody Sundays to even those who died in 1974 in the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings and everyone in between, before and after!

We already have the poppy for remembering the victims of WWI.

Crooked Jack

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I think you know exactly what I mean. So you're saying that the Easter Lilly hasn't transformed from a symbol of remembering the dead of the war of independence on to include glorifying IRA terrorists as well? Coulda fooled me.

Which IRA terrorists, the ones in 1920 or the ones in 1970?

The Easter Lily is a small symbol honouring and remembering Ireland's patriot dead. Always has been and it is today.

wolfpawnat

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We already have the poppy for remembering the victims of WWI.

That poppy also commemorates those who came to Ireland and killed our innocent civilians, I wouldn't spit on it, it would be a waste of saliva.

The Lily was designed for EVERYONE who died for Ireland, including our World War dead. I am happy to remember those brave men/women with it too.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We already have the poppy for remembering the victims of WWI.

That's not what the poppy remembers. This is a fallacy perpetuated by unionism.
The poppy commemorates British War dead from any and all of their greedy conquests and the money goes to helping current and former British soldiers.
It's a disgusting symbol.

OCorcrainn

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We already have the poppy for remembering the victims of WWI.

It has been hijacked by the Royal British Legion, you will be strongly criticized in the UK if you are seen wearing a White Poppy rather than the Red Poppy, and the Red Poppy is only used in remembrance for British soldiers in WW1 and beyond.

Chips Lovell

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Which IRA terrorists, the ones in 1920 or the ones in 1970?

Again, I think you know exactly what I mean. The latter.

Where To

wolfpawnat wrote: »

That poppy also commemorates those who came to Ireland and killed our innocent civilians, I wouldn't spit on it, it would be a waste of saliva.

The Lily was designed for EVERYONE who died for Ireland, including our World War dead. I am happy to remember those brave men/women with it too.

And you're trying to say the lily doesn't commemorate those who murdered innocent Irish civilians?

Yeah right.

Chips Lovell

Crooked Jack wrote: »

It's a disgusting symbol.

Said without a hint of irony.

wolfpawnat

Where To wrote: »

And you're trying to say the lily doesn't commemorate those who murdered innocent Irish civilians?

Yeah right.

Well it's a damn sight better than the bloody poppy.

The Lily represents the two sides of our Civil War, where Irish killed Irish. The Irish who died as a result of the Troubles had more to fear from Unionists and the British Military than our own. Every life lost is a tragedy, but excuse me for commemorating my fellow Irish man the most.

Crooked Jack

johnt91 wrote: »

Would never buy one. The money goes towards stupid things.

Wouldn't mind the money going to upkeep some of the republican graves, but I would never give money to some "prisoner fund".

Nothing gets me more riled up than the whole Bobby Sands attitude some people have towards IRA prisoners, why some people think that these people deserve our pity and money is beyond. They broke the law, they're in a paramilitary terrorist organisation. The IRA these days are scum and nothing else.

This is exactly where the money goes.
As for your Bobby Sands comment, people in jail today do not belong to the same organisation Bobby Sands did.

OCorcrainn

Where To wrote: »

And you're trying to say the lily doesn't commemorate those who murdered innocent Irish civilians?

Yeah right.

You can make the exact same argument for the poppy when British soldiers killed innocent 'British' civilians in Northern Ireland.

super_furry

I would associate wearing an Easter Lilly as showing support for Sinn Fein and the provos, so no I wouldn't wear one.

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

That's not what the poppy remembers. This is a fallacy perpetuated by unionism.
The poppy commemorates British War dead from any and all of their greedy conquests and the money goes to helping current and former British soldiers.
It's a disgusting symbol.

I'm pretty sure it's not. The poppy is a symbol to remember the fallen of WWI.

Iwasfrozen

OCorcrainn wrote: »

It has been hijacked by the Royal British Legion, you will be strongly criticized in the UK if you are seen wearing a White Poppy rather than the Red Poppy, and the Red Poppy is only used in remembrance for British soldiers in WW1 and beyond.

They can try and hi jack it all they want but it doesn't tarnish it's true meaning.

Crooked Jack

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Again, I think you know exactly what I mean. The latter.

So you're all for one period of "terrorism" over another.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Said without a hint of irony.

Yes.

OCorcrainn

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They can try and hi jack it all they want but it doesn't tarnish it's true meaning.

Yet you won't make the same exception for the Easter Lily...

Fratton Fred

wolfpawnat wrote: »

That poppy also commemorates those who came to Ireland and killed our innocent civilians, I wouldn't spit on it, it would be a waste of saliva.

The Lily was designed for EVERYONE who died for Ireland, including our World War dead. I am happy to remember those brave men/women with it too.

Including those that murdered innocent people.

If you want to wear one then fine, but do it based on its own merits, not as a reaction to people who wear a poppy.

wolfpawnat

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's not. The poppy is a symbol to remember the fallen of WWI.

Not the most factual source, but a pretty accurate account;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy

The remembrance poppy (a Papaver rhoeas) has been used since 1920 to commemorate soldiers who have died in war. Inspired by the World War I poem "In Flanders Fields", they were first used by the American Legion to commemorate American soldiers who died in that war (1914–1918). They were then adopted by military veterans' groups in the Commonwealth; especially the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Today, they are mainly used in the UK and Canada to commemorate their servicemen and women who have been killed since 1914. Small artificial poppies are often worn on clothing on Remembrance Day/Armistice Day (11 November) and in the weeks before it. Poppy wreaths are also often laid at war memorials.
The remembrance poppy is especially prominent in the UK in the weeks leading up to Remembrance Sunday. They are sold by The Royal British Legion for its "Poppy Appeal" and it is institutionalized for public figures to wear one, which some have berated as "poppy fascism". The poppy is especially controversial in Northern Ireland and most Irish nationalists and Irish Catholics refuse to wear one due to the actions of the British Army during The Troubles. There has also been controversy over their introduction to the world of sport.

It is for ALL British Soldiers who have died at war, not just that particular one! So like I said, it's not for me, I'd rather my lily or perhaps a compromise of a White Poppy for all WWI dead, and not reference those who killed the innocent of my country, whatever their political and religion allegiance. I always wish to commemorate the innocent of BOTH sides of the divide.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's not. The poppy is a symbol to remember the fallen of WWI.

Nope. All British soldiers post 1914.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_British_Legion
http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/support-us/

Mountjoy Mugger

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Yet you won't make the same exception for the Easter Lily...

The Easter Lily has long been associated with SF. In fact, it's where the terms "stickies" and "pickies"come from.

No need to pretend otherwise.

Iwasfrozen

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Yet you won't make the same exception for the Easter Lily...

Because the Lily is the symbol of an illegal organisation. One that has cause tremendous and irreparable damage to the people of Ireland. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

Chips Lovell

Crooked Jack wrote: »

So you're all for one period of "terrorism" over another.

More like I'm OK with a war declared by our democratically elected representatives, but not with a terrorist campaign waged by an organisation with no mandate other than its own sense of self-importance.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Because the Lily is the symbol of an illegal organisation. One that has cause tremendous and irreparable damage to the people of Ireland. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

The British army caused "tremendous and irreparable damage to the people of Ireland."

OCorcrainn

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Because the Lily is the symbol of an illegal organisation.

No it is not, you are using that excuse and false premise in a vain attempt to be unhypocritical.