Would you wear an Easter Lily?

OCorcrainn

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We already have the poppy for remembering the victims of WWI.

It has been hijacked by the Royal British Legion, you will be strongly criticized in the UK if you are seen wearing a White Poppy rather than the Red Poppy, and the Red Poppy is only used in remembrance for British soldiers in WW1 and beyond.

Chips Lovell

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Which IRA terrorists, the ones in 1920 or the ones in 1970?

Again, I think you know exactly what I mean. The latter.

Where To

wolfpawnat wrote: »

That poppy also commemorates those who came to Ireland and killed our innocent civilians, I wouldn't spit on it, it would be a waste of saliva.

The Lily was designed for EVERYONE who died for Ireland, including our World War dead. I am happy to remember those brave men/women with it too.

And you're trying to say the lily doesn't commemorate those who murdered innocent Irish civilians?

Yeah right.

Chips Lovell

Crooked Jack wrote: »

It's a disgusting symbol.

Said without a hint of irony.

wolfpawnat

Where To wrote: »

And you're trying to say the lily doesn't commemorate those who murdered innocent Irish civilians?

Yeah right.

Well it's a damn sight better than the bloody poppy.

The Lily represents the two sides of our Civil War, where Irish killed Irish. The Irish who died as a result of the Troubles had more to fear from Unionists and the British Military than our own. Every life lost is a tragedy, but excuse me for commemorating my fellow Irish man the most.

Crooked Jack

johnt91 wrote: »

Would never buy one. The money goes towards stupid things.

Wouldn't mind the money going to upkeep some of the republican graves, but I would never give money to some "prisoner fund".

Nothing gets me more riled up than the whole Bobby Sands attitude some people have towards IRA prisoners, why some people think that these people deserve our pity and money is beyond. They broke the law, they're in a paramilitary terrorist organisation. The IRA these days are scum and nothing else.

This is exactly where the money goes.
As for your Bobby Sands comment, people in jail today do not belong to the same organisation Bobby Sands did.

OCorcrainn

Where To wrote: »

And you're trying to say the lily doesn't commemorate those who murdered innocent Irish civilians?

Yeah right.

You can make the exact same argument for the poppy when British soldiers killed innocent 'British' civilians in Northern Ireland.

super_furry

I would associate wearing an Easter Lilly as showing support for Sinn Fein and the provos, so no I wouldn't wear one.

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

That's not what the poppy remembers. This is a fallacy perpetuated by unionism.
The poppy commemorates British War dead from any and all of their greedy conquests and the money goes to helping current and former British soldiers.
It's a disgusting symbol.

I'm pretty sure it's not. The poppy is a symbol to remember the fallen of WWI.

Iwasfrozen

OCorcrainn wrote: »

It has been hijacked by the Royal British Legion, you will be strongly criticized in the UK if you are seen wearing a White Poppy rather than the Red Poppy, and the Red Poppy is only used in remembrance for British soldiers in WW1 and beyond.

They can try and hi jack it all they want but it doesn't tarnish it's true meaning.

Crooked Jack

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Again, I think you know exactly what I mean. The latter.

So you're all for one period of "terrorism" over another.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Said without a hint of irony.

Yes.

OCorcrainn

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They can try and hi jack it all they want but it doesn't tarnish it's true meaning.

Yet you won't make the same exception for the Easter Lily...

Fratton Fred

wolfpawnat wrote: »

That poppy also commemorates those who came to Ireland and killed our innocent civilians, I wouldn't spit on it, it would be a waste of saliva.

The Lily was designed for EVERYONE who died for Ireland, including our World War dead. I am happy to remember those brave men/women with it too.

Including those that murdered innocent people.

If you want to wear one then fine, but do it based on its own merits, not as a reaction to people who wear a poppy.

wolfpawnat

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's not. The poppy is a symbol to remember the fallen of WWI.

Not the most factual source, but a pretty accurate account;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy

The remembrance poppy (a Papaver rhoeas) has been used since 1920 to commemorate soldiers who have died in war. Inspired by the World War I poem "In Flanders Fields", they were first used by the American Legion to commemorate American soldiers who died in that war (1914–1918). They were then adopted by military veterans' groups in the Commonwealth; especially the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Today, they are mainly used in the UK and Canada to commemorate their servicemen and women who have been killed since 1914. Small artificial poppies are often worn on clothing on Remembrance Day/Armistice Day (11 November) and in the weeks before it. Poppy wreaths are also often laid at war memorials.
The remembrance poppy is especially prominent in the UK in the weeks leading up to Remembrance Sunday. They are sold by The Royal British Legion for its "Poppy Appeal" and it is institutionalized for public figures to wear one, which some have berated as "poppy fascism". The poppy is especially controversial in Northern Ireland and most Irish nationalists and Irish Catholics refuse to wear one due to the actions of the British Army during The Troubles. There has also been controversy over their introduction to the world of sport.

It is for ALL British Soldiers who have died at war, not just that particular one! So like I said, it's not for me, I'd rather my lily or perhaps a compromise of a White Poppy for all WWI dead, and not reference those who killed the innocent of my country, whatever their political and religion allegiance. I always wish to commemorate the innocent of BOTH sides of the divide.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's not. The poppy is a symbol to remember the fallen of WWI.

Nope. All British soldiers post 1914.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_British_Legion
http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/support-us/

Mountjoy Mugger

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Yet you won't make the same exception for the Easter Lily...

The Easter Lily has long been associated with SF. In fact, it's where the terms "stickies" and "pickies"come from.

No need to pretend otherwise.

Iwasfrozen

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Yet you won't make the same exception for the Easter Lily...

Because the Lily is the symbol of an illegal organisation. One that has cause tremendous and irreparable damage to the people of Ireland. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

Chips Lovell

Crooked Jack wrote: »

So you're all for one period of "terrorism" over another.

More like I'm OK with a war declared by our democratically elected representatives, but not with a terrorist campaign waged by an organisation with no mandate other than its own sense of self-importance.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Because the Lily is the symbol of an illegal organisation. One that has cause tremendous and irreparable damage to the people of Ireland. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

The British army caused "tremendous and irreparable damage to the people of Ireland."

OCorcrainn

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Because the Lily is the symbol of an illegal organisation.

No it is not, you are using that excuse and false premise in a vain attempt to be unhypocritical.

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Nope. All British soldiers post 1914.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_British_Legion
http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/support-us/

From your own article,

he remembrance poppy (a Papaver rhoeas) has been used since 1920 to commemorate soldiers who have died in war. Inspired by the World War I poem "In Flanders Fields", they were first used by the American Legion to commemorate American soldiers who died in that war (1914–1918). They were then adopted by military veterans' groups in the Commonwealth; especially the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

In the United States, the American Legion distributes crepe-paper poppies in exchange for contributions.[when?] "Poppy Day" is usually the same as or near Memorial Day in May.[35] However, many Legion groups also make poppies available around 11 November.[36]

So it's originally an American symbol and not exclusively British.

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

The British army caused "tremendous and irreparable damage to the people of Ireland."

Yes they did but the poppy is not a British symbol.

OCorcrainn wrote: »

No it is not, you are using that excuse and false premise in a vain attempt to be unhypocritical.

The IRA is not an illegal organisation now?

Crooked Jack

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

More like I'm OK with a war declared by our democratically elected representatives, but not with a terrorist campaign waged by an organisation with no mandate other than its own sense of self-importance.

The representatives of the Dail were not elected on the basis of waging war with Britain.
Nor were most, if any of the TDs aware that the first shots of the war had even been fired when the Dail met.
The Dail didn't officially declare war until some time into the conflict.

The Provisional IRA was forced into existence in 1969 because of loyalist aggression, unionist discrimination, British ignorance and Free State cowardice.
Nationalists in the north were under attack, it had to defend them.
It didnt have the luxury of seeking a mandate. War was upon them wether they liked it or not. It was fight or die. I for one am glad they opted for the former.

Lelantos

keithob wrote: »

i think its important to honour and respect people who died for the republican cause.

regardless of your political party beliefs now the people that are running this country are nothing short of muppets and those in oppostion are as bad if not worse.

what is there to celebrate in 2016..??? nothing

I'm sure when Fianna Fáil return to power in a year or 2, they will organise something to commemorate the event

wolfpawnat

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Including those that murdered innocent people.

If you want to wear one then fine, but do it based on its own merits, not as a reaction to people who wear a poppy.

I respect peoples right to wear the poppy, but I find if I wear my symbol, I am told I support murderers when they get an International Day for what I see in some respects as the same.

I support any side of any war respecting their dead, hell even the regular German soldiers who were just doing their job and did not realise how evil Nazism was deserve to be remembered.

golfball37

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

More like I'm OK with a war declared by our democratically elected representatives, but not with a terrorist campaign waged by an organisation with no mandate other than its own sense of self-importance.

When was this exactly?

You do know the war of Independence started the same day as the Dail met for the first time making your statement pure bunkem. A widower father of 7 was murdered by the IRA that day yet you wouldn't class that as terrorism? What about the women and children murdered in cold blood in Altnaveigh in 1922 also?

The people carrying out that act and Easter had no mandate either. Nothing worse than a hypocrite. I despise all acts of terrorism, not cherry picked ones and I would certainly never condone ones the history books now say are all right.

On topic- The Easter proclomation has no relevence to the current failed state we live in. The people running this state may well want to piggy back on men who made the ultimate sacrifice but what their stated aims were are too far away from modern Ireland for anyone to take it seriously. IMO.

And by any International measuring standard, a grouping representing less than 10% of the population taking over a post office and firing weapons out on a public street could be called nothing less than Terrorism these days.

Iwasfrozen

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Not the most factual source, but a pretty accurate account;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy



It is for ALL British Soldiers who have died at war, not just that particular one! So like I said, it's not for me, I'd rather my lily or perhaps a compromise of a White Poppy for all WWI dead, and not reference those who killed the innocent of my country, whatever their political and religion allegiance. I always wish to commemorate the innocent of BOTH sides of the divide.

This is pretty much the same thing Jack said so I'll just post the same response to both. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83293294&postcount=52

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

From your own article,




So it's originally an American symbol and not exclusively British.

Originally perhaps but not now. had you read the other links you would have seen that the only group allowed to produce and sell poppies in Britain and Ireland is the Royal British Legion. The money goes towards helping current and former british soldiers. The article also clearly states that the poppy is used in Britain to commemorate all post 1914 british soldiers.

This thread however, is not about the poppy, it's about the Easter Lily.
I wear one every year but on my own time.
I wouldn't wear it into work or demand anybody else wear one.
With that said, anyone who is in favour of Irish independence should have no issue with the lily.
Like i said, the money goes to the National Graves Association. If anyone thinks it has become an exclusively Sinn Fein symbol then all they have to do is wear it to remedy that.
Im sure sinn fein would love to see the SDLP, FF, FG, Labour and other Irish parties wearing the lily. It is not theirs, it's everybody's.

Chips Lovell

golfball37 wrote: »

You do know the war of Independence started the same day as the Dail met for the first time making your statement pure bunkem.

And they issued a declaration of independence on the same day, demanding the evacuation of the British garrison.

allthedoyles

Yes will wear one again this year ..........are on eBay for a fiver and money goes to the NGA .

www.nga.ie