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Would you wear an Easter Lily?

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    #152
    HoggyRS
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭HoggyRS


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That may be the ideal but there is a reason every mainstream party in Ireland refuses to wear the lily, it's become synonymous with IRA terrorist activity, with killing innocents and using violence to achieve your political goals. Again I have no wish to force my views on anyone, I'd never challenge someone for wearing a lily because that's just a dickish thing to do but I'd never wear one myself. I don't believe in violent insurrection against the state to get what you want.
    The third most popular political party in this country at the moment actively sell the Easter Lilly.

    I'll be wearing the easter lilly with pride this year.


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    #153
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    It is synomamous with the events of Easter 1916, I hardly think anyone other than yourself would accept the IRA lilly represents the dead Irish of WW1, WW2, or the UN. Indeed having spoken to a member of the Irish Ex Servicemens organization he tells me the his organization (ONE) have nothing to do with Easter lillys.

    Is that 'Irish ex British Servicemen' or 'Ex Irish Servicemen'?


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    #154
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    I did a story on it about two or three years ago and the proceeds of any official lilies bought go to the National Graves Association (www.nga.ie)
    I'm trying to find a more recent link but here's the first one I found. It's the launch of Sinn Fein's 2011 Easter Lily campaign and it was launched in conjunction with people from the NGA. Gerry Kelly also urges people to support the work of the NGA in it.

    http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/20443

    It's just common sense. If you're buying it from Sinn Fein or an authorised seller, that's where it goes, but if you throw a quid in a bucket for one at and anti-PSNI white line picket it's probably going elsewhere.

    I don't have time to check it out now, but thanks for your response.

    As stated I'm a believer in respecting our history and would proudly wear one, once I know the cash is not going to arm others to keep a conflict going.


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    #155
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Now you are getting your poppies confused.

    On the x factor they usually wear a cloth poppy, not a RBL one. There is a huge difference.
    As I do not have anything to do with the red poppy, I would not know anything about it. I gather from your post that like the lily, there are different ones. I would put my support to the white one were I to find one being sold.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That may be the ideal but there is a reason every mainstream party in Ireland refuses to wear the lily, it's become synonymous with IRA terrorist activity, with killing innocents and using violence to achieve your political goals. Again I have no wish to force my views on anyone, I'd never challenge someone for wearing a lily because that's just a dickish thing to do but I'd never wear one myself. I don't believe in violent insurrection against the state to get what you want.

    Yes I see it as a rebellion against a foreign force. Difference of opinion there but that is the great thing about freedom to make up our own minds :D I too have never force my opinion on anyone and have never said anything to a person wearing the poppy, not my cup of tea, but to each their own.

    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    And that would be fine if the lily stopped in 1918 but it hasn't it continued on to this present day and is associated with terrorists who committed the same type of atrocities as the Dublin-Monaghan bombings you mention. That's not even mentioning Cathal Brugha himself was associated with a very shady war, I wouldn't put him in the same sentence as two little girls.

    I feel the same way about the poppy. Until 1918 would have been fine with me, but they continued it on to include the likes of the men who shot dead 14 unarmed innocent civilians in the Bogside. I have always condemned the killing of any innocent civilian, regardless of their allegiance. Omagh is as bad as D&M, which in turn is as bad as Bloody Sunday 1972, which is as bad as the Guildford Pub bombing.


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I don't agree with that, it should be freedom of choice.

    And you have the right to. But as you think I am wrong, I so think you are, and the great thing with a discussion forum is that we can both argue our opinions on this matter. Doesn't mean if we were to discuss another topic, we would not agree on that :D Would you not agree?


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    #156
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    There's too much glorification of conflict and death associated with commemoration symbols so I wouldn't wear one.

    I think symbols such as the lilly and poppy divert attention from the fact that the people being commemorated died because of the failure of their peers, leaders, representatives, oppressors and exploiters to sit down and sort their shit out without pointing guns at each other.


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    #157
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Can I ask who here, though they would not wear the lily would go to a state commemoration held on Easter Sunday every year? The official state one now, not any other one.


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    #158
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    HoggyRS wrote: »
    The third most popular political party in this country at the moment actively sell the Easter Lilly.

    I'll be wearing the easter lilly with pride this year.
    Fianna Fail sell easter lilies? That's a new one on me. Good luck to you, I just won't be joining you.


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    #159
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Fianna Fail sell easter lilies? That's a new one on me. Good luck to you, I just won't be joining you.

    He/She is probably refering to the Red C poll the other day which shows, they are now the most popular in the country (since they are not in power), then FG, then SF, then Labour.


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    #160
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nodin wrote: »
    The poppy sold here is produced by the Royal British Legion, and its funds go exclusively towards a charity for British Army veterans. Thus its effectively a British symbol.
    I'm going to ask you the same thing I asked Jack.
    "What if I made poppies, sold them and donated the money to the Irish armed forces. How would you view the poppy? It obviously isn't a British symbol then. Would you wear one? What if I stamped a republican symbol on it? "
    Nodin wrote: »
    Yet when November rolls around, I doubt we'll see you decrying the poppy for funding the Veterans of Iraq, Kenya, Cyprus and Northern Ireland.
    If the British legion starts to fund paramilitaries you can be dammed sure I'll decry them.
    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    He/She is probably refering to the Red C poll the other day which shows, they are now the most popular in the country (since they are not in power), then FG, then SF, then Labour.
    I know I guessed that too since SF are the only party that supports the lily. I just wanted to screw with him. :P


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    #161
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    who here would go to a state commemoration held on Easter Sunday every year? The official state one now, not any other one.

    I wouldn't feel any great desire to be shown to be commemorating the dead at an official ceremony.

    It's a private matter for me.


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    #162
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Can I ask who here, though they would not wear the lily would go to a state commemoration held on Easter Sunday every year? The official state one now, not any other one.

    I've been to a few over the years, mainly because other family members wanted me to go. I had relatives who fought and died during the Easter Rising. Also had one who fought with the British in Somme! Never felt compelled to wear any pin as a mark of respect though.


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    #163
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    And you have the right to. But as you think I am wrong, I so think you are, and the great thing with a discussion forum is that we can both argue our opinions on this matter. Doesn't mean if we were to discuss another topic, we would not agree on that :D Would you not agree?
    No, I never agree! lol I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one Wolf.


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    #164
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I'm going to ask you the same thing I asked Jack.
    "What if I made poppies, sold them and donated the money to the Irish armed forces. How would you view the poppy? It obviously isn't a British symbol then. Would you wear one? What if I stamped a republican symbol on it? "

    What would this new poppy commemorate?
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    If the British legion starts to fund paramilitaries you can be dammed sure I'll decry them.


    So massacres in Mayalasia, systematic brutality in Kenya, illegal war in Iraq doesn't register on your radar?


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    #165
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nodin wrote: »
    What would this new poppy commemorate?
    The same thing all the other poppies commemorate, those who died in armed conflict from 1914 onwards.
    Nodin wrote: »
    So massacres in Mayalasia, systematic brutality in Kenya, illegal war in Iraq doesn't register on your radar?
    I wasn't aware the poppy commemorated massacres. Thank you for enlightening me, someone should tell Simon Cowell. Here I was thinking all this time the poppy commemorated soldiers who died in battle, ordinary joe soaps who fought and died for their country rather then the top brass who led them. Well thank you for changing my ways, I'm a true and true pinhead chucky now.


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    #166
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    I'm loving the music of the 'hypocrite squirm' ;)


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    #167
    lockon...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 115 ✭✭lockon...


    OCorcrainn wrote: »
    Note: The money does not go into 'prisoner funds' or Sinn Féin's pockets, it goes towards preserving graves and memorials for those who died.

    Well the money is not going into their accounts thats for sure.


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    #168
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    I wouldn't feel any great desire to be shown to be commemorating the dead at an official ceremony.

    It's a private matter for me.

    Fair enough, to each their own :)
    My name is URL wrote: »
    I've been to a few over the years, mainly because other family members wanted me to go. I had relatives who fought and died during the Easter Rising. Also had one who fought with the British in Somme! Never felt compelled to wear any pin as a mark of respect though.

    That's fair enough too. Amazing stories in your family no doubt :D
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    No, I never agree! lol I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one Wolf.

    Ah you just like being an awkward bollíx don't you! :D On this matter we'll more than likely always disagree, nothing wrong with that. Differences of opinion are grand as long as neither person wants to support something insane like genocide or the like!


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    #169
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    I believe he also wears underwear. Are you opposed to it as well. What a sad life you must lead if your actions and opinions are based on what Gerry Adams does or doesnt do

    Crooked Jack
    Location: South Armagh


    I see...


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    #170
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Crooked Jack
    Location: South Armagh


    I see...

    Well you have to admit, not doing something because a particular other person does is a bit childish. I believe Thatcher would have a breakfast, I am not going to skip it just because she decides to have toast or whatever in the morning.

    A symbol like that does not gain/lose it's symbolism because a politician (and no matter what he did/didn't do in the past, that is what he is) wears it.


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    #171
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    the top brass who led them.

    The top brass inbred dim-wits who directed young men to 'charge' into machine gun fire during WW1 should have been hanged by the front line soldiers.


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    #172
    Lome
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Lome


    Can i just ask the people who wouldnt wear one tell me why they wouldnt? These guys were heros and gave their lives so you could be free in your own country i do admit they would be turning in their graves at the way this place is run but i think they deserve the highest amount of respect.


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    #173
    xLexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 829 ✭✭✭xLexie


    Yes I do, proudly.


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    #174
    lockon...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 115 ✭✭lockon...


    Lome wrote: »
    Can i just ask the people who wouldnt wear one tell me why they wouldnt? These guys were heros and gave their lives so you could be free in your own country i do admit they would be turning in their graves at the way this place is run but i think they deserve the highest amount of respect.

    Heros don't wear balaclavas and boiler suits.


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    #175
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    The same thing all the other poppies commemorate, those who died in armed conflict from 1914 onwards.
    .

    Sounds a bit broad to me.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I wasn't aware the poppy commemorated massacres. Thank you for enlightening me, someone should tell Simon Cowell. Here I was thinking all this time the poppy commemorated soldiers who died in battle, ordinary joe soaps who fought and died for their country rather then the top brass who led them. Well thank you for changing my ways, I'm a true and true pinhead chucky now.


    The money goes towards veterans.


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    #176
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Crooked Jack
    Location: South Armagh


    I see...


    You see what, exactly.


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    #177
    TiGeR KiNgS
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭TiGeR KiNgS


    i voted just to tie things up even more.


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    #178
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nodin wrote: »
    Sounds a bit broad to me.
    That's exactly the point, when you encompass both communities into one symbol you deny them one more thing to hate each other over.
    Nodin wrote: »
    The money goes towards veterans.
    Yes it does.


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    #179
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Chuck Stone wrote: »

    The top brass inbred dim-wits who directed young charge' into machine gun fire during WW1 should have been hanged by the front line soldiers.
    Imagen being told to go over the top, to certain doom. every body of every man who went before you without returning still there. Hopefully we can keep bitching about trivial symbols in the safety of not doing it.


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    #180
    Lome
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Lome


    lockon... wrote: »
    Heros don't wear balaclavas and boiler suits.

    Correct me if im wrong but i dont think these heros wore any balaclavas or boiler suits . u really must know what your talking about......:rolleyes:

    your the type of clown who voted no obviously...


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    #181
    lockon...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 115 ✭✭lockon...


    Lome wrote: »
    Correct me if im wrong but i dont think these heros wore any balaclavas or boiler suits . u really must know what your talking about......:rolleyes:

    your the type of clown who voted no obviously...

    Go to a national graveyard and look for the graves which say "Maintained by NGA" and you'll recognise the balaclava wearers.


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