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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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    #9422
    Glass Prison 1214
    Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Glass Prison 1214


    Fooker wrote: »
    Just wondering will Fat Nick from Ulster be qualified next year for Ireland because of his 2 years for Munster or does there have to be a continuous period of residency? :P

    It has to be 3 continuous years, so no he won't be IQ next season.


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    #9423
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Williams is already been locked in for NZ after representing them at lower levels.


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    #9424
    Reloc8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Reloc8


    GerM wrote: »
    Williams is already been locked in for NZ after representing them at lower levels.

    Damn ! He seemed like our sort of player :pac:


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    #9425
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    I see us Leinster fans favourite hack has an entire piece in the Indo this morning bigging-up 32 year old James Coughlan's prospects of taking potential Lions captain Jamie Heaslip's place in the Ireland team...


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    #9426
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    I see us Leinster fans favourite hack has an entire piece in the Indo this morning bigging-up 32 year old James Coughlan's prospects of taking potential Lions captain Jamie Heaslip's place in the Ireland team...

    Totally ridiculous, Coughlan is good but I would rate Sean O'Brien and Jamie Heaslip as better international 8's that him. Roger Wilson deserves a shot before Coughlan. Why do average Munster players get some much written about them positively in the national press?

    O'Gara was declared as delivering a masterclass in a lot of Sunday papers. His performance other than off the tee was shocking. He nearly kicked away the game with the ridiculous 22 drop out but yet the hacks reckon he was in the running for man of the match.


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    #9427
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    I see us Leinster fans favourite hack has an entire piece in the Indo this morning bigging-up 32 year old James Coughlan's prospects of taking potential Lions captain Jamie Heaslip's place in the Ireland team...

    Coughlan is a very good player, but he is not in Heaslip's league. And, as you say, he's 32, giving him a shot at internationals now would be pointless in the extreme when we're full to the gills of younger back-rowers.

    He'll be brought along to USA and Canada this summer and will win a cap or two there, but realistically that should be an end to it.


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    #9428
    Fishooks13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Fishooks13


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    Totally ridiculous, Coughlan is good but I would rate Sean O'Brien and Jamie Heaslip as better international 8's that him. Roger Wilson deserves a shot before Coughlan. Why do average Munster players get some much written about them positively in the national press?

    Average? I don't think we're talking about the same James Coughlan......

    Don't for a second think he should be ahead of Heaslip given his age btw, but James Coughlan is a fantastic player and the best 8 in the country bar Heaslip

    Also the assertion that SOB is a better international 8 than Coughlan is a bit mad considering neither have been tested there at international level and Coughlan is a better provincial 8 than O' Brien


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    #9429
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Fishooks13 wrote: »
    Average? I don't think we're talking about the same James Coughlan......

    Don't for a second think he should be ahead of Heaslip given his age btw, but James Coughlan is a fantastic player and the best 8 in the country bar Heaslip

    Also the assertion that SOB is a better international 8 than Coughlan is a bit mad considering neither have been tested there at international level and Coughlan is a better provincial 8 than O' Brien

    It is my opinion. O'Brien has looked very good from 8 when played there at provincial level. It is also my opinion Roger Wilson should be ahead of him in the Irish reckoning. He has turned in top notch performances for Northampton and Ulster over the past few years and is a year younger isn't he?


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    #9430
    Fishooks13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Fishooks13


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    It is my opinion. O'Brien has looked very good from 8 when played there at provincial level. It is also my opinion Roger Wilson should be ahead of him in the Irish reckoning. He has turned in top notch performances for Northampton and Ulster over the past few years and is a year younger isn't he?

    O Brien could make a decent 8, he's certainly got the fielding and carrying for it, even if he lacks a little fluidity at the back of the scrum, but I think he's a world class 7 now, why move him?

    Wilson is only a year younger than Coughlan. Over the last 2 years Coughlan has been a better performer imo, although both have been pretty good neither of them should be looked at as a possible international given their age.


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    #9431
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Fishooks13 wrote: »
    O Brien could make a decent 8, but I think he's a 7 now, why move him?

    Wilson is only a year younger than Coughlan. Over the last 2 years Coughlan has been a better performer imo, although both have been pretty good neither of them should be looked at as a possible international given their age.

    I agree neither should be looked at but while Coughlan has been good, Wilson was fantastic at Northampton for a few seasons and now Ulster IMO and deserves caps before Coughlan. When I mentioned the average Munster players by the way I also meant O'Gara, Archer and to a lesser extent Kilcoyne who have all taken positive headlines recently in relation to Irish selection yet IMO there are better players in other provinces and overseas been overlooked for the same positions.

    Sorry I should also mention O'Brien should play 8 if Heaslip is injured as Chris Henry is a better 7 than either of those fellows are 8 and a back row of Ferris, Henry and O'Brien is very very strong. Stronger than any back row featuring Wilson or Coughlan.


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    #9432
    Fishooks13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Fishooks13


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    I agree neither should be looked at but while Coughlan has been good, Wilson was fantastic at Northampton for a few seasons and now Ulster IMO and deserves caps before Coughlan. When I mentioned the average Munster players by the way I also meant O'Gara, Archer and to a lesser extent Kilcoyne who have all taken positive headlines recently in relation to Irish selection yet IMO there are better players in other provinces and overseas been overlooked for the same positions.

    Sorry I should also mention O'Brien should play 8 if Heaslip is injured as Chris Henry is a better 7 than either of those fellows are 8 and a back row of Ferris, Henry and O'Brien is very very strong. Stronger than any back row featuring Wilson or Coughlan.

    That's pretty subjective, I'd counter that by saying that Coughlan has arguably been Munsters best player for the last 2 years alongside Howlett

    Agree about ROG and Archer but Kilcoyne is starting to really justify his selection


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    #9433
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Fishooks13 wrote: »
    That's pretty subjective, I'd counter that by saying that Coughlan has arguably been Munsters best player for the last 2 years alongside Howlett

    Agree about ROG and Archer but Kilcoyne is starting to really justify his selection

    I still rate Court as a better 1 than him, both played well at the weekend but Court was immense. I would rather Court propping v the English scrum at 1 than Kilcoyne. But yes Kilcoyne has showed improvement SINCE his call up, I don't think he showed enough before the call up to warrant selection. He is one for the future though.


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    #9434
    Otacon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    I still rate Court as a better 1 than him, both played well at the weekend but Court was immense. I would rather Court propping v the English scrum at 1 than Kilcoyne. But yes Kilcoyne has showed improvement SINCE his call up, I don't think he showed enough before the call up to warrant selection. He is one for the future though.

    While I agree that Court is currently the better option, he is 32. Kilcoyne will be 24 in four days. I know who I want to be getting game-time.


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    #9435
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Otacon wrote: »
    While I agree that Court is currently the better option, he is 32. Kilcoyne will be 24 in four days. I know who I want to be getting game-time.

    32 is prime age for a prop.

    I think by the next RWC though we will have 2 world class number ones and one very good one between Kilcoyne, Healy and McGrath. Depends which one of Kilcoyne and McGrath improves quickest. Kilcoyne might be butchered and burnt out at Munster in Leinster they have a great rotation policy with props as shown with Heinke and Cian. I think McGrath will take over from Heinke next year.

    My initial point was newspapers called for his selection before he performed for Munster IMO.


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    #9436
    Fooker
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭Fooker


    I think POM and Coughlan are overrated. They are decent players, but not of the standard of Munster's EC winning teams. Munster's pack were completely dominated and outplayed by Ulster's backrow last year.

    Munster have failed to take a significant scalp in a few years now.


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    #9437
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Fooker wrote: »
    I think POM and Coughlan are overrated. They are decent players, but not of the standard of Munster's EC winning teams. Munster's pack were completely dominated and outplayed by Ulster's backrow last year.

    Munster have failed to take a significant scalp in a few years now.

    POM reminds me of Denis Leamy but with more talent. Always seems to be looking to punch or smack or mouth off at someone. If he can bring that side of his game under control he will be a quality backrow player. He needs to settle on a position as well. He is either a 6,7 or 8 I don't think he has the natural ability like Sean O'Brien to play all three. Stick to a position, train it inside out and play from there. Personally I see him as either a 6 or at a push an 8. He is not a 7.


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    #9438
    Fishooks13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Fishooks13


    Fooker wrote: »
    I think POM and Coughlan are overrated. They are decent players, but not of the standard of Munster's EC winning teams. Munster's pack were completely dominated and outplayed by Ulster's backrow last year.

    Munster have failed to take a significant scalp in a few years now.

    Lets try and explain this?

    Why is he overrated?


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    #9439
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    He's saying he's overrated because he's not as good as the back row of 06/08. I don't remember anyone saying Coughlan is as good as Foley though.


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    #9440
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Fishooks13 wrote: »
    Lets try and explain this?

    Why is he overrated?

    Coughlan is Munster's Shane Jennings. A good provincial player but one who won't make the step up to international standard. That is were I personally rate him, I think some Irish journalists overrate him but that is all, I have never heard that many fans calling for him to be added to the Irish panel.


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    #9441
    Fishooks13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Fishooks13


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    He's saying he's overrated because he's not as good as the back row of 06/08. I don't remember anyone saying Coughlan is as good as Foley though.


    Which is my point!


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    #9442
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Fishooks13 wrote: »
    Lets try and explain this?

    Why is he overrated?

    That depends on how people rate him.

    Various media hacks paint him as Ireland's best backrow forward which he is not and it you take that as the general rating then yes he is overrated.

    He is very good at the controlling ball at the base, second only to Heaslip imo.

    He is probably Ireland's best eight in terms of carrying off the base, at least he is at the moment since Heaslip never carries off the base recently.

    He is a good tackler and a decent ball carrier.

    He probably is Ireland's second best eight at least among those who play 8 but if Heaslip was injured I'd prefer to give SOB a shot at 8 and give Henry SOB's number seven shirt.


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    #9443
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Fishooks13 wrote: »
    Which is my point!

    Would you agree though he is overated by the article in this morning's paper?

    http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/penney-backs-terrific-coughlan-for-ireland-3320229.html


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    #9444
    tbm
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭tbm


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    O'Gara was declared as delivering a masterclass in a lot of Sunday papers. His performance other than off the tee was shocking. He nearly kicked away the game with the ridiculous 22 drop out but yet the hacks reckon he was in the running for man of the match.

    I noticed that with some amusement. Even some of the English press were bigging him up. He was pretty useless outside of the pretty great penalty return.
    Fooker wrote: »
    Munster have failed to take a significant scalp in a few years now.

    In fairness, I think hammering the previous years H Cup finalists in their own back yard was a significant scalp.


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    #9445
    Fishooks13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Fishooks13


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    Would you agree though he is overated by the article in this morning's paper?

    http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/penney-backs-terrific-coughlan-for-ireland-3320229.html

    The same fella who wrote that was calling for ROG for Ireland so I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone in the Indo


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    #9446
    ed7890
    Closed Accounts Posts: 607 ✭✭✭ed7890


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    POM reminds me of Denis Leamy but with more talent. Always seems to be looking to punch or smack or mouth off at someone. If he can bring that side of his game under control he will be a quality backrow player. He needs to settle on a position as well. He is either a 6,7 or 8 I don't think he has the natural ability like Sean O'Brien to play all three. Stick to a position, train it inside out and play from there. Personally I see him as either a 6 or at a push an 8. He is not a 7.

    POM's discipline is actually very good. Only 1 yellow card in the last 2 seasons, and that was a soft one too, team yellow. He gets in people's faces, but never does anything stupid like throw a punch in front of officials. I dont know how much more under control you want him to be.


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    #9447
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Fishooks13 wrote: »
    The same fella who wrote that was calling for ROG for Ireland so I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone in the Indo

    So really I think we all rate Coughlan the same, good provincial player but not Irish standard. Is that fair enough to assume?


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    #9448
    Fishooks13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Fishooks13


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    So really I think we all rate Coughlan the same, good provincial player but not Irish standard. Is that fair enough to assume?

    Considering he never got the chance to give it a shot we'll never know. The way he's playing the last two years I'd say he would have been a very good option at 8 for Ireland. Just a pity he only really peaked at 29, the same time Jamie Heaslip was arguably the best 8 in the NH


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    #9449
    its_phil
    Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    wicklowwonder wrote: »

    So really I think we all rate Coughlan the same, good provincial player but not Irish standard. Is that fair enough to assume?

    Not that I don't think he wouldn't be good enough for Ireland but there are just so many better options in front of him. It just makes it difficult.

    Reminds me of Michael Swift, could have made a good contribution but just too many good players in line.


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    #9450
    shuffol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    Coughlan or Wilson?


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    #9451
    Fishooks13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Fishooks13


    shuffol wrote: »
    Coughlan or Wilson?


    If there was an injury to Heaslip and O Brien for Ireland I'd have Coughlan starting at 8 for the Welsh game ahead of Wilson

    Not much between them mind. Two players that should have a few caps between them


This discussion has been closed.
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