Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

irishbucsfan

If BOD is fit I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Earls started ahead of Gilroy. He's the better defender and it's a position they're very dangerous. Gilroy better be on the bench though for a run at them in the last 20 (and yes that'd cover every position)

goreyguy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If BOD is fit I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Earls started ahead of Gilroy. Because Earls is a Kidney favourite.

fixed

totallegend

Tox56 wrote: »

I'm pretty confident Kilcoyne will move ahead of du Preez (if he hasn't already). He's promising, young, Irish and has international experience already

I hope he does move ahead of du Preez (but there's no reason to think he has yet), my point is that if he doesn't, there's no way he should be considered for the 6N if not being a provincial starter is a reason for excluding Gilroy (who has infinitely more senior experience than Kilcoyne).

CIARAN_BOYLE

With 23 man squads it is essential imo to have a substitute LH and a substitute TH you can trust to come on for 20 minutes and provide fresh legs. Along with scrumhalf LH and TH prop is the two positions where fresh legs have the greatest effect.

If you don't trust your replacement to give to you 20 minutes and there is a quality LH like Court out of the 23 you picked the wrong man to include in the 23.

If Kidney is not going to trust Kilcoyne then Court should be on the bench imo.

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

There's a precedence for this, DOC was picked ahead of Ryan in last year's Six Nations despite Ryan being clearly ahead of DOC at Munster.

Which was an absolutely appalling decision which was made a mockery of once Ryan got a start.

Akin to Murray's stellar rise to the national team, I don't think we should be advocating bad decisions as precedent.

tolosenc

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

With 23 man squads it is essential imo to have a substitute LH and a substitute TH you can trust to come on for 20 minutes and provide fresh legs. Along with scrumhalf LH and TH prop is the two positions where fresh legs have the greatest effect.

If you don't trust your replacement to give to you 20 minutes and there is a quality LH like Court out of the 23 you picked the wrong man to include in the 23.

If Kidney is not going to trust Kilcoyne then Court should be on the bench imo.

Your point makes sense, however, it is predicated on Kidney giving a substitute 20 minutes playing time. If you remember how much time Leo Cullen got...

jacothelad

danthefan wrote: »

I guess it's a bit of a double standard alright but the issue for me would be Gilroy being behind Trimble for Ulster but ahead of him for Ireland. That just doesn't make sense.

Kilcoyne has done fairly well so far and I don't think Court is an international standard player, he's at around Jennings' level, good HEC player. Kilcoyne could be a good international.

In what way has 'Killer'done well so far? he hasn't actuially done anything. Weren't you even a l;ittle bit worried when he was under huge pressure from Deacon Manu7, the 'Archer' of Scarlets front row? A player butchered by Court every time they play. If there was an opponent's scrum on our line in the last play of a cup final and we were a few points ahead, who would you rather have at loose head? A guy with 6 starts for Munster or Tom Court. Court as it stands is a far better proven loosehead than Kilcoyne. Kilcoyne may become a better one but as of now he certainly isn't. I'd take Court every time as things stand and until Kilcoyne shows he can actually do the job.

Quint2010

I see the Chairman of the Declan Kidney fan club has been at it again...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1127/1224327142444.html

goreyguy

Quint2010 wrote: »

I see the Chairman of the Declan Kidney fan club has been at it again...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1127/1224327142444.html

lost all respect for GT

irishbucsfan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

With 23 man squads it is essential imo to have a substitute LH and a substitute TH you can trust to come on for 20 minutes and provide fresh legs. Along with scrumhalf LH and TH prop is the two positions where fresh legs have the greatest effect.

Has there been any mention of 23 man squads being used for the 6 Nations yet?

totallegend

Quint2010 wrote: »

I see the Chairman of the Declan Kidney fan club has been at it again...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1127/1224327142444.html

Gerry Thornley wrote:

If history has taught us one thing, it is that Declan Kidney knows how to build teams. He’s done it consistently throughout his coaching career with schools, under-age and club sides, as well as Ireland A and Munster. Last Saturday, there was thrilling evidence of a new Irish team coming to fruition.

It's a pity it's not television, I'd love to see him attempt that with a straight face.

CIARAN_BOYLE

tolosenc wrote: »

Your point makes sense, however, it is predicated on Kidney giving a substitute 20 minutes playing time. If you remember how much time Leo Cullen got...

That would make more sense for a lock than for a prop but managing the bench for props in 23 man squads is more important.

Replaced props can come back on in case of injury so giving fresh legs a chance is more important since there is no chance being stuck without a like for like replacement in case of injury.

JustinDee

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Has there been any mention of 23 man squads being used for the 6 Nations yet?

Just asked for you here.
Yes, squads of 23.

Tox56

Quint2010 wrote: »

I see the Chairman of the Declan Kidney fan club has been at it again...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1127/1224327142444.html

Like all coaches, he deals in a results business, and a strong Six Nations campaign would be no harm. The IRFU hierarchy appear to be taking quite a sanguine, wait-and-see approach to all the speculation about Kidney’s future, but in those circumstances they might well be then of a mind to offer him, Les Kiss and Gert Smal an extension until 2015.

He's dropping hints again.

I assume a "strong" 6 Nations equates to 3 or 4 wins with a few moral victories thrown in.

He talks about it being a results business, and even clarifies just how bad the results have been recently:

just two wins in the preceding nine games (at home to Scotland and Italy)

Yet he expects all that to be forgotten if we have a "strong 6 Nations". Unbelievable.

A Grand Slam is about the only thing that would convince me a contract extension is the right thing to do, anything less and it's time for a change.

Hagz

One of the pundits mentioned on Against the Head that the new 5 second rule will work in Ireland's favour. It completely slipped my mind during these AI's that this would be the first time Ireland would be playing under this new rule. And I'd have to agree that I think it will suit us.

How often do we complain about Murray's slow recycling of the ball? How often has it become clear that Ireland play at their best when the tempo of the game is at its highest? Added to that, one of them made the point that it should help us against the goliath backs of Wales as the quick ball will/should create more space.

I'm pretty happy to actually be looking forward to a 6 nations campaign for a once. I think the new guys and the new rules are going to have a great affect on the team.

ScissorPaperRock

The worrying thing is that we've been here before; optimism after a top performance followed by a swift crash to mediocrity.

That being said, I think that the injection of new blood and the kind of competition for positions that we should see over the coming months might see us lift our performance to a level that is consistently higher.

In particular, I'm looking forward to seeing SOB back on the pitch. I am worried though that BOD being back might lead to Gilroy or Zebo being squeezed out, which would be a pity.

I just wish the 6Ns weren't so far away!

molloyjh

Hagz wrote: »

One of the pundits mentioned on Against the Head that the new 5 second rule will work in Ireland's favour. It completely slipped my mind during these AI's that this would be the first time Ireland would be playing under this new rule. And I'd have to agree that I think it will suit us.

How often do we complain about Murray's slow recycling of the ball? How often has it become clear that Ireland play at their best when the tempo of the game is at its highest? Added to that, one of them made the point that it should help us against the goliath backs of Wales as the quick ball will/should create more space.

I'm pretty happy to actually be looking forward to a 6 nations campaign for a once. I think the new guys and the new rules are going to have a great affect on the team.

5 seconds is a long time at the back of a ruck. Try counting it out at the weekend. Combine that with the fact that the ref has to call it first and I'm not sure just how much of an effect this will have in general play.

Hagz

molloyjh wrote: »

5 seconds is a long time at the back of a ruck. Try counting it out at the weekend. Combine that with the fact that the ref has to call it first and I'm not sure just how much of an effect this will have in general play.

It will most definitely have an affect. You'd be surprised just how long the ball used to stay at the back of a ruck before. They showed 1 clip (and I'd imagine there are heaps of other instances) of a 6 nations game where the ball was at Murray's feet for 8 seconds inside the opposition half. Based on my viewing it takes the ref around 3 seconds to call 'use it' and although they have 5 seconds to do so, you'll find that most teams will use immediately when they're told to do so. It should help Ireland when they get into the opposition 22, before that used to a big problem. We would break into the opposition 22 with momentum and then stall for too long. The 6 nations will show whether the theory is right, but I think it will definitely speed up Ireland's play.

Sinbad_NI

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

The worrying thing is that we've been here before; optimism after a top performance followed by a swift crash to mediocrity.

That being said, I think that the injection of new blood and the kind of competition for positions that we should see over the coming months might see us lift our performance to a level that is consistently higher.

In particular, I'm looking forward to seeing SOB back on the pitch. I am worried though that BOD being back might lead to Gilroy or Zebo being squeezed out, which would be a pity.

I just wish the 6Ns weren't so far away!

Yeah hope that doesn't happen. If BOD is back and playing well then it must be Earls to bench, Gilroy to stay and Zebo at FB unless RK is back (in which case I would like to see Zebo dropped).

Benny Cake

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Yeah hope that doesn't happen. If BOD is back and playing well then it must be Earls to bench, Gilroy to stay and Zebo at FB unless RK is back (in which case I would like to see Zebo dropped).

Gilroys biggest issue will be displacing Trimble at Ulster over the next two months. If he manages this, he may pull ahead of Zebo, otherwise I reckon Zebo will be retained....

Sinbad_NI

Benny Cake wrote: »

Gilroys biggest issue will be displacing Trimble at Ulster over the next two months. If he manages this, he may pull ahead of Zebo, otherwise I reckon Zebo will be retained....

Full confidence he will displace Trimble... Trimble is decent enough but Gilroy has been much better the last 2 years TBH.

goreyguy

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1130/1224327299935.html

Great article by toland.

The Six Nations is around the corner and with our talent there is now no turning back. We open to Wales in Cardiff, making this our watershed. If Ireland fail to perform in Cardiff there must be change on Sunday morning, February 3rd; otherwise last weekend was nothing but a Stephen Hawking illusion.

irishbucsfan

goreyguy wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1130/1224327299935.html

Great article by toland.

The Six Nations is around the corner and with our talent there is now no turning back. We open to Wales in Cardiff, making this our watershed. If Ireland fail to perform in Cardiff there must be change on Sunday morning, February 3rd; otherwise last weekend was nothing but a Stephen Hawking illusion.

Someone decent finally breaks ranks

totallegend

goreyguy wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1130/1224327299935.html

Great article by toland.

Excellent article. I've a lot of time for Toland, think he has an excellent eye for the game, but this article is more about stating the obvious which so many journos have failed to do.

Liam Toland wrote:

Not pairing Leinster duo Sexton and Reddan is also curious. Early intervention in the front five has been poor (exhausted Ireland frontrow against South Africa). The Kidney bench is not a tactical weapon...

... Kidney’s location and promotion of talent has been slow. No doubt we all enjoy the fruits of Donnacha Ryan and Mike McCarthy’s man of the match awards and a sensational performance from Craig Gilroy, but all were promoted due to injury or circumstances....

... Fundamentally, Kidney’s operating speed is slow caution, hence we have not reacted quickly enough to evolving international styles in general, nor to the unfolding of a match in particular...

Fair play, and a welcome change from the incessant cheerleading and outright brainwashing that other journos have attempted in recent weeks.

Winters

totallegend wrote: »

Fair play, and a welcome change from the incessant cheerleading and outright brainwashing that other journos have attempted in recent weeks.

Agreed, nice to see some hacks writing what most Irish Rugby fans have been saying for at least 12 months now.

Ideally we should have seen the likes of Gilroy, Cave, McCarthy, Touhy et al last year.

Toland reading boards.ie.

Funnily enough I see that as a plus if he's going to use it correctly as opposed to churning out "Internet Boys are Meanies" style articles.

A good summation of some of Kidney's main flaws there.

ScissorPaperRock

Deleted User wrote: »

Toland reading boards.ie.

I don't think the article could be any closer to representing the boards.ie rugby forum consensus!

totallegend

In fairness to Toland, he's been more vocal than most about McCarthy for a long time.

I'm sick of all the pro-Connacht bias in the meeja!

Scioch

Seen this over on YLYL.

Grimebox

BOD's reaction to the RWC draw. He hints at retiring