Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

wicklowwonder · 10-12-2012 1:38pm

shuffol wrote: »

Coughlan or Wilson?

Personally Wilson, he has impressed me a lot more than Coughlan over the last few season but that is my opinion.

GerM · 10-12-2012 1:44pm

ed7890 wrote: »

POM's discipline is actually very good. Only 1 yellow card in the last 2 seasons, and that was a soft one too, team yellow. He gets in people's faces, but never does anything stupid like throw a punch in front of officials. I dont know how much more under control you want him to be.

Discipline is far more than yellow cards. He loses control and clarity of thought when the pressure comes on. He tends to concede important penalties. He does silly things. He tends to get caught up in handbags every second game but much more importantly he fails to gauge the referees interpretation regularly. There was a moment against Sarries where Munster were whistled for going off their feet. That happens. But at the same breakdown, POM came in from a ridiculous angle at the side. Never even pretended to join the ruck correctly. That's where his reputation stems from. 6 penalties conceded against Argentina and South Africa. That's the winning and losing of a game.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 10-12-2012 1:47pm

Coughlan is incredibly underrated by most. In terms of specialist 8 play - control at base, attacking off base and returning restarts - there wouldn't be anything between himself and Heaslip, but Heaslip is a much more rounded player. Munster's Jennings would be a good example and considering there were posters here calling for Jennings to be ahead of Wallace at one stage, I wouldn't call it crazy that some would think he should be pushing Heaslip for his spot. I still wouldn't select him for Ireland though.

GerM · 10-12-2012 1:52pm

Coughlan is a warrior and I am a big fan but there is little else to his attacking game beyond driving it up. Granted, it's an important facet but I'd wager he'd be nullified fairly quickly by an international back row. The likes of Wilson and Heaslip have far more subtlety to their games.

Otacon · 10-12-2012 1:52pm

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Would you agree though he is overated by the article in this morning's paper?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/penney-backs-terrific-coughlan-for-ireland-3320229.html

It's from Conor George. 'Nuff said TBH.

its_phil · 10-12-2012 2:08pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Munster's Jennings would be a good example and considering there were posters here calling for Jennings to be ahead of Wallace at one stage, I wouldn't call it crazy that some would think he should be pushing Heaslip for his spot. I still wouldn't select him for Ireland though.

I would certainly call it crazy!

I thought people had the problem with Leamy coming into the team after a few injuries before hand and Jennings had been playing consistently well for Leinster. Could be wrong there. But Leamy wasn't even a starter by the end of that season in 2011. Coughlan took his place iirc.

ed7890 · 10-12-2012 2:09pm

GerM wrote: »

Discipline is far more than yellow cards. He loses control and clarity of thought when the pressure comes on. He tends to concede important penalties. He does silly things. He tends to get caught up in handbags every second game but much more importantly he fails to gauge the referees interpretation regularly. There was a moment against Sarries where Munster were whistled for going off their feet. That happens. But at the same breakdown, POM came in from a ridiculous angle at the side. Never even pretended to join the ruck correctly. That's where his reputation stems from. 6 penalties conceded against Argentina and South Africa. That's the winning and losing of a game.

He got caught for a few penalties in the AIs I'll give you that, but it's not a regular thing. In Munster games he wouldn't be a repeat offender for giving away penalties, not like somebody like Varley would be.

Flankers are all trying to push the limits and compete on the ground. Sometimes you'll get caught by the ref and sometimes you'll get away with it. Chris Henry got a yellow in the quarter final last season for hands in the ruck, and got another one in the AIs, but I wouldn't say he has a discipline problem, just doing his job.

POM is down for 1 penalty conceded at the weekend, which was a fairly high pressure game. No penalties in the HEC game against Edinburgh. No penalties in the HEC game against Racing. No penalties in the most recent Munster/Leinster match.

I think people see him do the handbags stuff and assume he's got a discipline problem, but he really doesn't. It's confirmation bias, people only see the facts that suits the view they've already decided on.

Quint2010 · 10-12-2012 2:33pm

I rate Coughlin but not to the extent where he is ahead of Heaslip. What I am surprised at though is that Kidney has never selected him. He is certainly a better player right now than the likes of Kilcoyne, Archer, DOC, Murray etc. who Kidney has selected without a moments hesitation.

Fireball07 · 10-12-2012 3:20pm

Personally, I think if Coughlan was 25 or 26 when he started hitting the kind of form he's in now, rather than around 29, he'd have been in plenty of Irish squads and got a few caps. Heaslip is a more talented footballer, but Coughlan goes through a huge amount of work, is very intelligent and his leadership is invaluable to Munster. Wilson is also a very good player...again not in Heaslip's class but good.

In a call between Coughlan and Wilson, I would pick Coughlan every single time. I accept that bias might play a part there because I see the effect Coughlan has for Munster every single week and it is huge.

its_phil · 10-12-2012 3:28pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

Personally, I think if Coughlan was 25 or 26 when he started hitting the kind of form he's in now, rather than around 29, he'd have been in plenty of Irish squads and got a few caps. Heaslip is a more talented footballer, but Coughlan goes through a huge amount of work, is very intelligent and his leadership is invaluable to Munster. Wilson is also a very good player...again not in Heaslip's class but good.

In a call between Coughlan and Wilson, I would pick Coughlan every single time. I accept that bias might play a part there because I see the effect Coughlan has for Munster every single week and it is huge.

Agreed if he was that bit younger. I definitely would have supported Coughlan being ahead of Muldoon for the AI's.

I think this line "Coughlan goes through a huge amount of work, is very intelligent and his leadership is invaluable to Munster" could easily be replaced with Heaslip and Leinster. Heaslip does a lot more of the unseen donkey stuff these days and very effectively too.

Right now Coughlan, but Wilson is only a month back from injury but in a few months I can see Wilson moving ahead of him.

Neil3030 · 10-12-2012 3:29pm

Where can you get data on how many penalties individual players give away per game? Can't seem to find them anywhere.

Interesting to see if certain preconceptions regarding certain players hold up to empirical analysis.

its_phil · 10-12-2012 3:30pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Where can you get data on how many penalties individual players give away per game? Can't seem to find them anywhere.

Interesting to see if certain preconceptions regarding certain players hold up to empirical analysis.

Some people don't like scrum.com on here but I find it's usually not too far off.

Fireball07 · 10-12-2012 3:34pm

its_phil wrote: »

Agreed if he was that bit younger. I definitely would have supported Coughlan being ahead of Muldoon for the AI's.

I think this line "Coughlan goes through a huge amount of work, is very intelligent and his leadership is invaluable to Munster" could easily be replaced with Heaslip and Leinster. Heaslip does a lot more of the unseen donkey stuff these days and very effectively too.

Right now Coughlan, but Wilson is only a month back from injury but in a few months I can see Wilson moving ahead of him.

Yeah but everyone knows Heaslip is class, probably the standout 8 in Britain & Ireland.

I just think some people don't realise how important Coughlan is to Munster.

Grimebox · 11-12-2012 4:57pm

Tomás O'Leary is out of the Six Nations. What will Ireland do without him?!

leonard7 · 11-12-2012 5:21pm

ehh ?!? Tomas O'Leary hasn't played rugby for Ireland for years...?

CatFromHue · 11-12-2012 5:23pm

"degenerative pre-existing injury that has deteriorated this season"

That sounds like very bad news, especially as he had a fair bit of problems with it before!

Heroditas · 11-12-2012 5:23pm

for a degenerative pre-existing injury that has deteriorated this season,

No wonder Munster and the IRFU were happy enough to get him off the books.

CatFromHue · 11-12-2012 5:26pm

Heroditas wrote: »

No wonder Munster and the IRFU were happy enough to get him off the books.

It was my understanding that he was offered a contract by Munster but chose to leave instead.

GerM · 11-12-2012 5:31pm

leonard7 wrote: »

ehh ?!? Tomas O'Leary hasn't played rugby for Ireland for years...?

March 2012, in fairness. His international career is dead now, I would think though. I'd say there are plenty of people who would have him back in Ireland in a heartbeat however.

chippers · 11-12-2012 5:34pm

Grimebox wrote: »

Tomás O'Leary is out of the Six Nations. What will Ireland do without him?!

That's a pity. Missing most of this season at his age is a big blow.

Otacon · 11-12-2012 5:37pm

GerM wrote: »

I'd say there are plenty of people who would have him back in Ireland in a heartbeat however.

I would certainly have him back in Munster! When Murray is not around, we have to rely on Williams or Stringer.

ssaye · 11-12-2012 5:41pm

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/27931.php

Ireland's RBS 6 Nations Referees
Wales v Ireland - Romain Poite (FFR)
Ireland v England - Jerome Garces (FFR)
Scotland v Ireland - Wayne Barnes (RFU)
Ireland v France - Steve Walsh (ARU)
Italy v Ireland - Wayne Barnes (RFU)

phog · 11-12-2012 5:45pm

leonard7 wrote: »

ehh ?!? Tomas O'Leary hasn't played rugby for Ireland for years...?

He played twice for Ireland this year.

Heroditas wrote: »

No wonder Munster and the IRFU were happy enough to get him off the books.

Munster offered him a contract.

chippers wrote: »

That's a pity. Missing most of this season at his age is a big blow.

He's only 29, a lot younger than the likes of BOD & POC have missed a lot of this season already.

Lelantos · 11-12-2012 5:47pm

ssaye wrote: »

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/27931.php

Ireland's RBS 6 Nations Referees
Wales v Ireland - Romain Poite (FFR)
Ireland v England - Jerome Garces (FFR)
Scotland v Ireland - Wayne Barnes (RFU)
Ireland v France - Steve Walsh (ARU)
Italy v Ireland - Wayne Barnes (RFU)

Poite?......that's us buggered then

ssaye · 11-12-2012 5:51pm

Lelantos wrote: »

Poite?......that's us buggered then

He hates the home team usually :pac:

danthefan · 11-12-2012 7:43pm

Lelantos wrote: »

Poite?......that's us buggered then

No it isn't, load of tosh. Does he like Wales or something?

fitz · 11-12-2012 7:53pm

Lelantos wrote: »

Poite?......that's us buggered then

I really hope POC isn't captain for that game...

Lelantos · 11-12-2012 7:54pm

danthefan wrote: »

No it isn't, load of tosh. Does he like Wales or something?

Don't think he likes anyone to be truthful. First scrum or 2 are vital in that game, if we lose & he penalizes us, that's it, he will do so constantly thru the game.

danthefan · 11-12-2012 7:56pm

Lelantos wrote: »

Don't think he likes anyone to be truthful. First scrum or 2 are vital in that game, if we lose & he penalizes us, that's it, he will do so constantly thru the game.

He will penalise us if we go backwards. If we start going forward we'll get the decisions. See HEC final in 2011.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 11-12-2012 8:20pm

Lelantos wrote: »

Don't think he likes anyone to be truthful. First scrum or 2 are vital in that game, if we lose & he penalizes us, that's it, he will do so constantly thru the game.

Poite doesn't understand the scrum

Whoever is going forward gets it 90% of the time

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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