Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

What The?

jacothelad wrote: »

Why? Simply because he is the most capped player? I respect his achievements. They are unlikely to be equalled. I don't respect the number of caps he has. A lot of them in the last two years or so have been given to him when he has no right to them. Professional rugby isn't a charity though and even ROG shouldn't get caps because he was once good. He isn't any more. Then neither is Mike Gibson or McBride or Tom Kiernan. I also respect these guys and other players such as Wood but I wouldn't want him playing. Have a look at the post to which I was replying. By the way, in life respect should be earned. There does come a time however when the 'respect' credit account can go into the red. As is ROG's. So save your pontificating as I certainly don't need you lecturing me about it.

You are blaming O'Gara for being selected for Ireland? Surely thats kidneys fault and not O'Garas? He plays for Munster, the fact the he is selected to play for Ireland is made by the mgmt team. We may not think he's good enough but unless we are Ireland manager that matters not a jot.

I wasn't pontificating, just calling your comment out for what it was, I don't appear to be alone on that one. If you want to take offence, so be it......

danthefan

Benny Cake wrote: »

This point has no relevance to the discussion. I wasn't vindicating his position in the squad. Work away though.....

You seem to think he deserves to be our most capped player. He's ahead now but he's picked up two completely undeserved caps this Autumn and he'll get more in the 6N. He deserves no more caps and should be put out to pasture.

Benny Cake

danthefan wrote: »

You seem to think he deserves to be our most capped player. He's ahead now but he's picked up two completely undeserved caps this Autumn and he'll get more in the 6N. He deserves no more caps and should be put out to pasture.

So where does the the debate end?
Does mal o'kelly 'deserve' more caps than poc.?
Does girvan Dempsey 'deserve' more caps than geordan murphy?
Bod is unquestionably Ireland's greatest player, I sincerely doubt he will be upset at being behind rog in the caps list. At least not as upset as you seem to be....

ScissorPaperRock

Lelantos wrote: »

If Rog is on a central contract given out by the IRFU & he is picked for Irish squads, can he refuse under the terms of contract?

I was wondering the same thing...

danthefan

Benny Cake wrote: »

So where does the the debate end?
Does mal o'kelly 'deserve' more caps than poc.?
Does girvan Dempsey 'deserve' more caps than geordan murphy?
Bod is unquestionably Ireland's greatest player, I sincerely doubt he will be upset at being behind rog in the caps list. At least not as upset as you seem to be....

I am not especially upset that ROG is the most capped player in itself, I am extremely upset that he gets anywhere near the national team though, it's a farce, and one leads to the other.

.ak

Okay folks, enough of the ROG sh1te. If you want to talk about ROG, start up a new thread.



(So I can close it)

Banbridgeman2

Benny Cake wrote: »

So where does the the debate end?
Does mal o'kelly 'deserve' more caps than poc.?
Does girvan Dempsey 'deserve' more caps than geordan murphy?
Bod is unquestionably Ireland's greatest player, I sincerely doubt he will be upset at being behind rog in the caps list. At least not as upset as you seem to be....

Was MOK in the team when he shouldn't have been? Same for Dempsey? ROG has about 25 too many caps already.

goreyguy

Going to assume both POC and Ferris are out for the Wales game. (pretty safe assumption considering their recent history)

My Team:
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. McCarthy
6. O'Brien
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Gilroy
12. Darcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney
16. Strauss
17. Court
18. Bent
19. DOC
20. Henderson
21. Reddan
22. Jackson
23. Earls

Think Darcy's position is most under threat depending on how Marshall performs between now and Feb. Between Zebo and Earls for the bench spot, but Earls can at a stretch cover one more position. If BOD is out, i'd go with Cave.

Banbridgeman2

goreyguy wrote: »

Going to assume both POC and Ferris are out for the Wales game. (pretty safe assumption considering their recent history)

My Team:
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. McCarthy
6. O'Brien
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Gilroy
12. Darcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney
16. Strauss
17. Court
18. Bent
19. DOC
20. Henderson
21. Reddan
22. Jackson
23. Earls

Think Darcy's position is most under threat depending on how Marshall performs between now and Feb. Between Zebo and Earls for the bench spot, but Earls can at a stretch cover one more position. If BOD is out, i'd go with Cave.

Marshall for D'arcy, Strauss for Best, touhy for DOC. If BOD isn't back in flying form then I'd start Cave. Would it be controversial to have Zebo over Earls on the bench? I think Earls is in terrible form and Zebo has a spark that could change games (although Zebo had a bit of a howler on Saturday dropping all those balls he still seems more likely to break than earls currently)

Scioch

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

Marshall for D'arcy, Strauss for Best, touhy for DOC. If BOD isn't back in flying form then I'd start Cave. Would it be controversial to have Zebo over Earls on the bench? I think Earls is in terrible form and Zebo has a spark that could change games (although Zebo had a bit of a howler on Saturday dropping all those balls he still seems more likely to break than earls currently)

Earls or McFadden for the bench as they are utility backs. Put Zebo on there and you have no centre cover. Then again if your starting Cave BOD would surely be on the bench ?

Fireball07

Depends on form at the time though.

Like any 2 of Ryan, McCarthy, DOC, Tuohy, Toner (and possibly POC) could be the form 2nd rows.

We don't know who will be the form scrum-half, who the form wingers, 12 will be.

Same for the bench.

Cosmo Kramer

goreyguy wrote: »

Going to assume both POC and Ferris are out for the Wales game. (pretty safe assumption considering their recent history)

My Team:
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. McCarthy
6. O'Brien
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Gilroy
12. Darcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney
16. Strauss
17. Court
18. Bent
19. DOC
20. Henderson
21. Reddan
22. Jackson
23. Earls

Think Darcy's position is most under threat depending on how Marshall performs between now and Feb. Between Zebo and Earls for the bench spot, but Earls can at a stretch cover one more position. If BOD is out, i'd go with Cave.

That would be close to what I would pick - however I'd say Kidney will go

6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip

Would much prefer O'Brien at 6 and a more natural 7 like Henry myself. I'd be disappointed (but not massively surprised) if Earls was picked at 11, have a feeling it might happen though. Jackson won't be on the bench either, we all know that other fella will be there if we're being honest with ourselves...

Podge_irl

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Would much prefer O'Brien at 6 and a more natural 7 like Henry myself.

I think O'Brien has made pretty massive strides towards being a natural 7. There is also the factor to consider that Leinster seem pretty intent these days on playing him at 7. He started 6 of 9 HEC games there last season and McLaughlin/O'Brien/Heaslip was the default backrow.

.ak

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think O'Brien has made pretty massive strides towards being a natural 7. There is also the factor to consider that Leinster seem pretty intent these days on playing him at 7. He started 6 of 9 HEC games there last season and McLaughlin/O'Brien/Heaslip was the default backrow.

He's defo a better 7 than 6. I think people like to put him at 6 just because he can play there well, also because he does the basics right - i.e; run at people. Also there's the whole HEC final in Cardiff. He seemed lost on the openside, and when they moved him to blindside he tore the Northampton defense apart.

But for me he's become a well balanced 7. His scavenging is top notch, his ruck-reading is on par with the greats, he's mobile enough to ghost every ruck and his clear outs are fantastic. And that's just the dirty work. Give him a bit of space to stretch his legs and he'll take a mile. He outplayed McCaw (imo) and rightly should be kept at 7 for Ireland.

I like the option of Henry on the bench as he's a nifty 8 if we pick up an injury.

bilston

Right so everyone else is picking their 6Ns XV here's mine...assuming everyone is fit and firing.

15 Rob Kearney - Best Full Back in Europe...has to play.
14 Tommy Bowe - Great performance at the weekend, still our best winger.
13 Brian O'Driscoll - If fit he plays unless he's really struggling which he won't be.
12 Gordon D'Arcy - After Saturday he gets the nod from me but hopefully others will put him under pressure that will in turn hopefully raise his game. On Saturday he looked like the D'Arcy of old.
11 Craig Gilroy - If he gets the Ulster 11 jersey and plays like he has been over the last month then he has to play, he is electric and really could take the 6Ns by storm.
10 Jonathan Sexton - I don't need to elaborate
9 Conor Murray - Played well against Argentina, let's hope he backs it up
1 Cian Healy - Best LH in Britain and Ireland
2 Rory Best - Just about gets the nod over Strauss for now but it's close and that's great as they'll hopefully raise each others game
3 Mike Ross - Not sure where the recent criticism has come from but the scrum looked solid at the weekend
4 Donnacha Ryan - Now a real leader within the squad, becoming one of the first names on the teamsheet
5 Paul O'Connell - If fit his lineout presence and leadership qualities are a necessity
6 Stephen Ferris - I fear we may never see him at his best again but for now let's hope we do and if so he plays.
7 Sean O'Brien - If he gets back to his form in NZ (forgetting the final test) then he will become a class O/S
8 Jamie Heaslip - May not flourish in open play as much with this back row but still comfortably the best 8 in Ireland

Bench
Ristard Strauss - Unlucky not to be starting but will be a great impact player
Dave Kilcoyne - Clearly an investment in the future, let's stick with him
Michael Bent - When he's come on he's done very well
Mike McCarthy - Unlucky not to be starting but again evidence of a strong bench
Peter O'Mahony - I'm giving him the edge over Henry because he can cover all three back row spots, harsh on Henry but such is life
Paul Marshall - A fantasy pick for me as it won't happen but he could add real pace to the game from the bench with 20 mins left
Paddy Jackson - Probably another fantasy pick but it shouldn't really be, he really should be back up 10 now.
Keith Earls - The fact he is on my bench and not in the starting XV is a sign of the improving depth of options we have at our disposal. Simon Zebo is unlucky but again like Henry such is life.

Captain is an interesting call. Do we go back to BOD? Does POC get it? Does Heaslip hold onto it? I probably be tempted to look to the future and give it to someone else and my pick would be Rory Best as he could see it through to 2015 but the emergence of Strauss means that his place in the team isn't as secure as it previously was. I'd probably give it back to BOD until the end of the season and then see lie of the land then.

danthefan

SOB's first two tests against NZ in the summer at 7, it just can't be overstated how good he was. Even in NZ they were saying he matched McCaw. If he's playing at that level, and there's no reason why he won't be come the 6N, he's an automatic pick at 7.

tolosenc

bilston wrote: »

Peter O'Mahony - I'm giving him the edge over Henry because he can cover all three back row spots, harsh on Henry but such is life

That's a nonsensical reason not to pick Henry, for many reasons:

1) Henry is way better.
2) POM doesn't play 7.
3) We have SOB as an all rounder already, so he can move if Fez of Jamie have to go off, and have Henry in at 7. If SOB is the one going off, then it's a straight swap.

tolosenc

danthefan wrote: »

SOB's first two tests against NZ in the summer at 7, it just can't be overstated how good he was. Even in NZ they were saying he matched McCaw. If he's playing at that level, and there's no reason why he won't be come the 6N, he's an automatic pick at 7.

SOB is one player we have who would walk into a All Blacks squad.

Tox56

SOB's first game back from injury on Friday and he was a constant nuisance at the breakdown. Weak opposition but it barely looked like he had been away. I wasn't fully sold on him being a 7 until recently, but it's clear now he has great potential there, it's almost like unearthing a new player.

thomond2006

Healy, Best, Ross, Ryan, POC, Ferris, SOB, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Gilroy*, D'Arcy, BOD, Bowe, Kearney

Bench: Strauss, Kilcoyne, Bent, McCarthy, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, Earls

*Only if he is a HEC starter for Ulster.

danthefan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Healy, Best, Ross, Ryan, POC, Ferris, SOB, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Gilroy*, D'Arcy, BOD, Bowe, Kearney

Bench: Strauss, Court, Bent, McCarthy, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, Earls

*Only if he is a HEC starter for Ulster.

I'd also consider Marshall if he's starting for Ulster. Until such a time I think D'Arcy is the best we have.

Murray has to sustain the form he showed on Saturday or he comes back under pressure.

And I'd keep Kilcoyne on the bench.

thomond2006

danthefan wrote: »

I'd also consider Marshall if he's starting for Ulster. Until such a time I think D'Arcy is the best we have.

Murray has to sustain the form he showed on Saturday or he comes back under pressure.

And I'd keep Kilcoyne on the bench.

Yikes meant to have Kilcoyne...

Glass Prison 1214

thomond2006 wrote: »

Healy, Best, Ross, Ryan, POC, Ferris, SOB, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Gilroy*, D'Arcy, BOD, Bowe, Kearney

Bench: Strauss, Kilcoyne, Bent, McCarthy, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, Earls

*Only if he is a HEC starter for Ulster.

That is what I would go for as well, although I think Best/Strauss and POC/McCarthy are both very 50 50 and are too tough to call at the minute...

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

Yikes meant to have Kilcoyne...

What if Kilcoyne is not a HEC starter?

danthefan

totallegend wrote: »

What if Kilcoyne is not a HEC starter?

I guess it's a bit of a double standard alright but the issue for me would be Gilroy being behind Trimble for Ulster but ahead of him for Ireland. That just doesn't make sense.

Kilcoyne has done fairly well so far and I don't think Court is an international standard player, he's at around Jennings' level, good HEC player. Kilcoyne could be a good international.

thomond2006

danthefan wrote: »

I guess it's a bit of a double standard alright but the issue for me would be Gilroy being behind Trimble for Ulster but ahead of him for Ireland. That just doesn't make sense.

There's a precedence for this, DOC was picked ahead of Ryan in last year's Six Nations despite Ryan being clearly ahead of DOC at Munster.

tolosenc

Is it definitely 23 man squads for the 6 nations?

totallegend

danthefan wrote: »

I guess it's a bit of a double standard alright but the issue for me would be Gilroy being behind Trimble for Ulster but ahead of him for Ireland. That just doesn't make sense.

Kilcoyne has done fairly well so far and I don't think Court is an international standard player, he's at around Jennings' level, good HEC player. Kilcoyne could be a good international.

TBH du Preez isn't a world beater either so if Kilcoyne can't get ahead of him at Munster, then he's not ready for international rugby.

[I'm a big fan of Court, think he's criminally underrated]

Tox56

I'm pretty confident Kilcoyne will move ahead of du Preez (if he hasn't already). He's promising, young, Irish and has international experience already

goreyguy

If Kilcoyne was ready he should have came on earlier versus Arg, he is clearly not ready. We will see how he is going in the next 2 months but if he is still not trusted then court should be on the bench.