Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

Wade in the Sea · 11-11-2012 6:43pm

Aodh Rua wrote: »

Clearly, if you're supporting a British Empire, there's a clear correlation between military might and power. Why are you denying this and trying to portray British rule in foreign places like Ireland or Kenya as being there to help the natives, rather than to enrich the imperial power and its servants?

I didn't make either of those points.

Nodin · 11-11-2012 6:43pm

Piliger wrote: »

Should have given them medals.

Why?

RossyG wrote:

If it helps, I don't think the soldiers behind Bloody Sunday were heroes. I wouldn't call them scumbags either, mind, just scared young men with guns in a situation they weren't able to cope with. Perhaps there was an element of dehumanising going on, as well.

I suppose Bloody Sunday was our Kent State massacre; innocent protesters gunned down by panicking young people who should never have been there in the first place.

Not at all. Bloody Sunday was a few short minutes of selective, aimed rifle fire, in which any male in the age group deemed capable of carrying arms was targeted. It was "policing" as the Africans had known it. The troops were experienced, and commanded by a seasoned officer.

RossyG · 11-11-2012 6:44pm

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

I didn't make either of those points.

Stick around here and you get all sorts of things you never said attributed to you.

Chuck Stone · 11-11-2012 6:45pm

Piliger wrote: »

Or the others are just pathetic.

You're attitude contributes to the poppy fascism culture.

Wearing a poppy should be a no consequence choice. It has been pointed out by a number of people (poppy wearers) how remembrance day has been turned into a 'national consent day' with every old idiot wearing it.

It's significance has been totally devalued by poppy fascists.

If you wear a poppy/lilly then you should probably have a reason - if you don't wear one then you shouldn't have to explain why.

mattjack · 11-11-2012 6:47pm

RossyG wrote: »

Stick around here and you get all sorts of things you never said attributed to you.

Apparently Fratton Fred owns the BA and the poppys are mine.

RossyG · 11-11-2012 6:47pm

Madam wrote: »

They were not 'panicky young people' either! They were a crack squad(supposedly) of First Battalion, The Parachute Regiment

Nodin wrote: »

Bloody Sunday was a few short minutes of selective, aimed rifle fire, in which any male in the age group deemed capable of carrying arms was targeted. It was "policing" as the Africans had known it. The troops were experienced, and commanded by a seasoned officer.

Fair enough. I stand corrected.

Snickers Man · 11-11-2012 6:48pm

Odysseus wrote: »

Mass was from Drogheda today, I would say about 80-90% of people there wre wearing poppies; they must have given them out on the way in.

I don't know the full story, but a minister was also present and with the day that is in I hear part of the sermon was about wars and the people who serve in them.

That surprises me, unless your suggestion is correct that there was a local initiative that encouraged the congregation to wear the poppy, or perhaps that it was an invited audience of people who would be of a mind to do so.

I was in Dublin City centre today and I didn't see a single person wearing one. In fact, over the past week I have been in the city centre most days and I have only seen ONE PERSON wearing a poppy.

Guess despite all the hot air, it just doesn't register here.

PS Fair play to Enda Kenny for attending the memorial service in N Ireland
PPS Fair play to him for NOT wearing a poppy while he did so.

We CO-memorate the dead of Britain's wars differently. As we should do.

Aodh Rua · 11-11-2012 6:48pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Yeah...it's no longer Remembrance Day but Remembrance Week on the BBC.

More like Remembrance Month. And heaven forfend that you are an intelligent person who has reservations about commemorating the Black and Tans or the forces which guarded the concentration camps of Kenya or South Africa.

It's extraordinary that a country with a strong liberal tradition like Britain could allow such nationalistically fascist beliefs to take over as they do with all this British poppy commemoration.

Nodin · 11-11-2012 6:48pm

mattjack wrote: »

Apparently Fratton Fred owns the BA and the poppys are mine.

......can you make opium out of them?

mattjack · 11-11-2012 6:50pm

Nodin wrote: »

......can you make opium out of them?

The BA or the poppy ?

Wade in the Sea · 11-11-2012 6:52pm

billybudd wrote: »

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

You are saying British and Irish aren't the same thing "then/now" But in 1914 it was, as it is in Northern Ireland today. You may choose to rebel as some did, or not, as the majority did

In whose eyes were they legal?

Actually I said official. But in answer to your question whoever makes the law

billybudd · 11-11-2012 6:53pm

mattjack wrote: »

The BA or the poppy ?

You can form a partnersip and the BA can produce the opium and you and FF can split profits, its worked in the past and the present with other despots.:pac:

mattjack · 11-11-2012 6:55pm

billybudd wrote: »

You can form a partnersip and the BA can produce the opium and you and FF can split profits, its worked in the past and the present with other despots.:pac:

Anybody buying or selling ?

Fratton Fred · 11-11-2012 6:56pm

MugMugs wrote: »

Eh, well done..... What's your point? Am I wrong or are you just stirring it for the craic?

No, I was responding to a specific post. I suggest you go back and read it.

billybudd · 11-11-2012 6:59pm

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

billybudd wrote: »

Actually I said official. But in answer to your question whoever makes the law

Official? by whose law were they official? and if they were official does it mean the BA are legitimate and complicit in murdering their own citizens? bully and intimidate them? and encouraged by the ruling elite in doing so? or was Ireland just a special case were anything was ok once rule was enforced?

RossyG · 11-11-2012 7:01pm

Aodh Rua wrote: »

More like Remembrance Month. And heaven forfend that you are an intelligent person who has reservations about commemorating the Black and Tans or the forces which guarded the concentration camps of Kenya or South Africa.

It's extraordinary that a country with a strong liberal tradition like Britain could allow such nationalistically fascist beliefs to take over as they do with all this British poppy commemoration.

Most British people wouldn't have a clue what Black and Tans were or about the Boer War concentration camp. WW2 seems to have been a cultural year zero. From it came the welfare state and the Britain we know today.

Rightly or wrongly stuff like the B&Ts and the Boer War, if they are known about at all, is just ancient history, with no more relevance to modern life than kids up chimneys, gladiators and the slave trade. They are all filed under "Bad Things Happened in the Distant Past".

As far as British people are concerned, Poppy Day is mostly about World War 2 and saying thanks for stopping Hitler.

Fratton Fred · 11-11-2012 7:05pm

gurramok wrote: »

And those who have served\are serving in the BA anywhere else, including NI. Frankly saying prayers at a remembrance ceremony for the present British armed forces has nothing to do with us Irish, we have our own Irish army thank you.

Yes, but for some reason the unofficial paramilitary army in this country gets remembered and commemorated yet the brave men and women of the Irish defence force that carry out UN missions in Chad, the Lebanon and Afghanistan get overlooked.

Personally I find this odd to say the least.

billybudd · 11-11-2012 7:08pm

RossyG wrote: »

Most British people wouldn't have a clue what Black and Tans were or about the Boer War concentration camp. WW2 seems to have been a cultural year zero. From it came the welfare state and the Britain we know today.

Rightly or wrongly stuff like the B&Ts and the Boer War, if they are known about at all, is just ancient history, with no more relevance to modern life than kids up chimneys, gladiators and the slave trade. They are all filed under "Bad Things Happened in the Distant Past".

As far as British people are concerned, Poppy Day is mostly about World War 2 and saying thanks for stopping Hitler.

It is primarily about WWW1/2 but not only, as pointed out many, many, many, many,many and many more times before, proceeds from the sale of poopys go to helping out past, present & future personell of the BA. Hence the problem some people have with the poppy.

RossyG · 11-11-2012 7:09pm

Perhaps we should have an Irish Poppy Day - Shamrock Day? - where all Irish soldiers (of the uniformed variety) are honoured. That includes the Defence Force of today in places like Afghanistan and also the ones who fought, and continued to fight, in the British Army.

MugMugs · 11-11-2012 7:11pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No, I was responding to a specific post. I suggest you go back and read it.

I know what I wrote. Where did I state it was merely ROI?

Nodin · 11-11-2012 7:11pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yes, but for some reason the unofficial paramilitary army in this country gets remembered and commemorated yet the brave men and women of the Irish defence force that carry out UN missions in Chad, the Lebanon and Afghanistan get overlooked.

Personally I find this odd to say the least.

http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2012/07/2012-national-day-of-commemoration-ceremony-to-be-held-in-collins-barracks/

RossyG · 11-11-2012 7:12pm

billybudd wrote: »

It is primarily about WWW1/2 but not only, as pointed out many, many, many, many,many and many more times before, proceeds from the sale of poopys go to helping out past, present & future personell of the BA. Hence the problem some people have with the poppy.

Yes, that's fair enough. I was just pointing out the general British perception. When housewives drop a quid in the box or scouts and guides parade to the local war memorial, their heads are full of Spitfires and Churchill and D-Day and the Battle of Britain. They're not thinking of drones smashing into Iraqi villages or firing on peace parades in Derry.

Perhaps they should be, but they don't is the point I was making.

billybudd · 11-11-2012 7:13pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yes, but for some reason the unofficial paramilitary army in this country gets remembered and commemorated yet the brave men and women of the Irish defence force that carry out UN missions in Chad, the Lebanon and Afghanistan get overlooked.

Personally I find this odd to say the least.

Because we do not have too spoof the world into thinking we are the good guys because unlike Britain we do not profit from war mongering and arms selling.

Fratton Fred · 11-11-2012 7:20pm

billybudd wrote: »

Because we do not have too spoof the world into thinking we are the good guys because unlike Britain we do not profit from war mongering and arms selling.

Really? Maybe you've been spoofed into thinking you didn't.

How did De Velera get so rich?

billybudd · 11-11-2012 7:21pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Really? Maybe you've been spoofed into thinking you didn't.

How did De Velera get so rich?

Ha, bringing up the past suits you when you want it to, i see.

can you link me a story for that?

He got rich by underhanded bond selling.

Fratton Fred · 11-11-2012 7:22pm

Nodin wrote: »

http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2012/07/2012-national-day-of-commemoration-ceremony-to-be-held-in-collins-barracks/

I know it happens, but it seems to go almost unnoticed.

Now, if the proceeds from the easter Lilly went towards a fund for serving soldiers maybe it would be less controversial.

The Idyl Race · 11-11-2012 7:23pm

sitstill wrote: »

I wore my poppy yesterday as I always do at this time of year as I have a number of ancestors who died in both world wars. I was in the Georges Arcade and this old man, well 60 odd, said to me "oh poppy boy w**ker". When I asked was he speaking to me he said "yeah, u should be ashamed to wear that". I wasn't ashamed, I was proud.

No prizes for guessing who the wánker was, and it wasn't you.

Nodin · 11-11-2012 7:30pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I know it happens, but it seems to go almost unnoticed.

Now, if the proceeds from the easter Lilly went towards a fund for serving soldiers maybe it would be less controversial.

...that's the failure of successive governments to look after its troops welfare.

funnights74 · 11-11-2012 7:39pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Is the Irish rugby team not representing part of the UK though?

No, they're the Irish rugby team, rep;resenting Eire, if they don't like that then don't play for the republic. Players from ulster make their own point by not singing Amhrán na bhFiann when it is played. And don't get me started on Irelands call :mad:.

Lelantos · 11-11-2012 7:46pm

funnights74 wrote: »

No, they're the Irish rugby team, rep;resenting Eire, if they don't like that then don't play for the republic. Players from ulster make their own point by not singing Amhrán na bhFiann when it is played. And don't get me started on Irelands call :mad:.

They are not playing for the republic, they are playing for 2 separate countries united by sport & should be lauded for trying to show the way forward, not attacked because they don't all sing the same anthem

LincolnsBeard · 11-11-2012 8:18pm

Ireland should play a leading role in the world. Then you'll realise it isn't as easy as some of you are making out.

Wade in the Sea · 11-11-2012 8:21pm

billybudd wrote: »

[QUOTE=Wade in the Sea;

and if they were official does it mean the BA are legitimate and complicit in murdering their own citizens? bully and intimidate them? and encouraged by the ruling elite in doing so? or was Ireland just a special case were anything was ok once rule was enforced?

In a word, yes. units of the British Army committed atrocities in Ireland especially during the war of independence. Tell me though, do you think similar actions by the Free State Army during the civil war, oppression of communities, curfews, stop and search of men women and children and widespread execution of subversives illegitimised their authority to rule?

None of this however has anything to do with remembering our war dead.

billybudd · 11-11-2012 8:26pm

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

billybudd wrote: »

In a word, yes. units of the British Army committed atrocities in Ireland especially during the war of independence. Tell me though, do you think similar actions by the Free State Army during the civil war, oppression of communities, curfews, stop and search of men women and children and widespread execution of subversives illegitimised their authority to rule?

None of this however has anything to do with remembering our war dead.

I do not agree with some of what the FSA did but they were the official Army of Ireland at the time.Also something they did were under direct threat from Britain to do so, it was a very fragile time in Ireland which split families down the middle.

This thread is not about remembering the war dead, it is about why would an Irish person wear a poppy.

woodoo · 11-11-2012 8:27pm

The poppy money goes to the British legion for former British soldiers. How can there be so many irish people willing to wear one. Madness.

Vote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2231071/James-McClean-refuses-wear-poppy.html

billybudd · 11-11-2012 8:28pm

LincolnsBeard wrote: »

Ireland should play a leading role in the world. Then you'll realise it isn't as easy as some of you are making out.

Or maybe Britain should play a less significant puppy role and worry about its own social problems and its youths detatchment from society.

LincolnsBeard · 11-11-2012 8:46pm

billybudd wrote: »

Or maybe Britain should play a less significant puppy role and worry about its own social problems and its youths detatchment from society.

Ireland benefits from the protection it gets being under the Pax Americana umbrella.

It's always morons that don't understand politics that have the loudest mouths about war.

Dalken · 11-11-2012 8:47pm

Why don’t ye all get lives and stop wasting the time you have coming on here talking wa*k about Poppy’s. What F*ckin difference does it make, this country is going down the shi*ter so fast, young bright people leaving to make something of themselves, we can’t afford to hire guards or teachers, jokers and chancers are still running the place and you’re concerned with this poppy me b*lix, “what does it mean to be Irish??” sh*te, like it makes any difference to anyone in real terms...Most of ye here don’t know the first f*ckin thing about being Irish. I know I’m Irish cos I love my country and I want to see it progress not because it’s not part of the UK or because of our rebel history we’re so past that as far as I’m concerned time we all grew up.

billybudd · 11-11-2012 8:47pm

LincolnsBeard wrote: »

Ireland benefits from the protection it gets being under the Pax Americana umbrella.

It's always morons that don't understand politics that have the loudest mouths about war.

Protection from who moron?

Fratton Fred · 11-11-2012 8:50pm

Aodh Rua wrote: »

Yes, like all those volunteers who fought for Irish freedom by claiming 25% of the planet earth. What extremists!"

Oh, wait, they had British uniforms on them - they must be "moderate"!

That was a great post, did you think that up all on your own?

What exactly, other than having a little rant, does that add to the conversation?

murfey · 11-11-2012 8:51pm

thecommietommy wrote: »

After all it's for a foreign army, I don't see anyone wearing an emblem for the French, American, Spanish army. Ok some say it's for charity for injured British soldiers, but surely if they join up it's up to the British govt to properly look after them when they are injured and not pestering people expecting charity ?

Has anyone seen the filth gutter press in the daily mail rag today about james mc clean. After reading this anti irish filth,i have joined this forum to enlighten others of this papers anti irish veiws.the story written by a colin young attacks a young lady from Derry, because he choose not to wear a poppy.He also has a go at John O shea for not having one on for the second half of the game, even though most players changed their jerseys at half time and were also not wearing one also.This nobrain journelist also contuinueson the try start/encourage a twitter reactsion against mc clean.Fact a lot of muslin players did not wear the poppy also.Fact most clubs supplied 1 top to players so in the second half a lot of players were not wearing this symbol.
ALREADY Rio Ferd. HAS DEFENDED JAMES OVER HIS PRRSONAL DESISION.
This jouralist covers the north east of england and its not the first time he has attacked mc clean.
This paper publishes in the irish market as the irish daily mail, they should be ashamed of the filth they published today, in fact they have been publishing anti irish filth for a long time.
I omly joined here today to highlight this to decent people in the hope that we will avoid this newspaper and this writer, soory for my spelling but i am so angry that in 2012 we have to read this anti irish filth.
If i have posted this in the wrong place or forum, can somone repost it where it will be read so we can force this rag to change its anti irish opions

Fratton Fred · 11-11-2012 8:55pm

murfey wrote: »

Has anyone seen the filth gutter press in the daily mail rag today about james mc clean. After reading this anti irish filth,i have joined this forum to enlighten others of this papers anti irish veiws.the story written by a colin young attacks a young lady from Derry, because he choose not to wear a poppy.He also has a go at John O shea for not having one on for the second half of the game, even though most players changed their jerseys at half time and were also not wearing one also.This nobrain journelist also contuinueson the try start/encourage a twitter reactsion against mc clean.Fact a lot of muslin players did not wear the poppy also.Fact most clubs supplied 1 top to players so in the second half a lot of players were not wearing this symbol.
ALREADY Rio Ferd. HAS DEFENDED JAMES OVER HIS PRRSONAL DESISION.
This jouralist covers the north east of england and its not the first time he has attacked mc clean.
This paper publishes in the irish market as the irish daily mail, they should be ashamed of the filth they published today, in fact they have been publishing anti irish filth for a long time.
I omly joined here today to highlight this to decent people in the hope that we will avoid this newspaper and this writer, soory for my spelling but i am so angry that in 2012 we have to read this anti irish filth.
If i have posted this in the wrong place or forum, can somone repost it where it will be read so we can force this rag to change its anti irish opions

In other news, the pope has confessed to being catholic and a beer was caught crapping in the woods

The Idyl Race · 11-11-2012 8:59pm

murfey wrote: »

Has anyone seen the filth gutter press in the daily mail rag today about james mc clean. After reading this anti irish filth,i have joined this forum to enlighten others of this papers anti irish veiws.the story written by a colin young attacks a young lady from Derry, because he choose not to wear a poppy.He also has a go at John O shea for not having one on for the second half of the game, even though most players changed their jerseys at half time and were also not wearing one also.This nobrain journelist also contuinueson the try start/encourage a twitter reactsion against mc clean.Fact a lot of muslin players did not wear the poppy also.Fact most clubs supplied 1 top to players so in the second half a lot of players were not wearing this symbol.
ALREADY Rio Ferd. HAS DEFENDED JAMES OVER HIS PRRSONAL DESISION.
This jouralist covers the north east of england and its not the first time he has attacked mc clean.
This paper publishes in the irish market as the irish daily mail, they should be ashamed of the filth they published today, in fact they have been publishing anti irish filth for a long time.
I omly joined here today to highlight this to decent people in the hope that we will avoid this newspaper and this writer, soory for my spelling but i am so angry that in 2012 we have to read this anti irish filth.
If i have posted this in the wrong place or forum, can somone repost it where it will be read so we can force this rag to change its anti irish opions

I support wearing the poppy but not forcing people to wear it. That's shíte.

The Mail is a bloody rag all right but will never change as it depends on its fiftysomething south of England anti EU anti everything brigade. I would suggest cutting it into squares and hanging them on a hook in your nearest toilet, but you'd want a really hard arse to use it as toilet paper.

Try posting comments under the article online.

A V A · 11-11-2012 9:04pm

BX 19 wrote: »

Because an estimated 30,000 people died in WW1 from Ireland. Simple as. It's a symbol remembering those who died, and nothing more.

in that case,i would have no hesitation in buying a green poppy and wearing it with pride but to wear another countries tribute to their fallen etc i dont deem right, just my opinion

A Dub in Glasgo · 11-11-2012 9:54pm

That is it for another year, time for me to unsubscribe to this thread

See you all next year where will will rehash all the same stuff :pac:

Nodin · 11-11-2012 9:59pm

LincolnsBeard wrote: »

Ireland should play a leading role in the world. Then you'll realise it isn't as easy as some of you are making out.

Whats that do with anything?

Wade in the Sea · 11-11-2012 10:04pm

billybudd wrote: »

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

I do not agree with some of what the FSA did but they were the official Army of Ireland at the time.Also something they did were under direct threat from Britain to do so, it was a very fragile time in Ireland which split families down the middle.

This thread is not about remembering the war dead, it is about why would an Irish person wear a poppy.

We wear a poppy to remember our war dead

Nodin · 11-11-2012 10:06pm

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

We wear a poppy to remember our war dead

Not all wars are worthy of remembrance in that fashion.

philologos · 11-11-2012 10:09pm

So I take it since Remembrance Day is coming to a close we can put this to rest until next year?

Chuck Stone · 11-11-2012 10:12pm

philologos wrote: »

So I take it since Remembrance Day is coming to a close we can put this to rest until next year?

Banned.

DUCWIDT?

Wade in the Sea · 11-11-2012 10:13pm

Nodin wrote: »

Not all wars are worthy of remembrance in that fashion.

We are not commemorating war - but those who died.

Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

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