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Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

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    #812
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MagicSean wrote: »
    The thread is about wearing a poppy, not buying one. There is surely a difference. If you buy one from a charity set up to fund British Army soldiers is that not completely different to wearing one to show respect for those that died in World War 1? I think it is.

    I wouldn't object to supporting the soldiers on the ground anyway. A soldier has little choice in where he is sent. I think most are doing what they think is right. For many of them the army is all they know so why would they think any different to what they are told?

    'They were only following orders'? Seriously?


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    #813
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    flanno_7hi wrote: »
    That's the thing though. Here in the UK I am a guest in their country and as such i respect their reasons and right to buy/wear a poppy. People wearing the poppy will remind others to buy one.
    In Ireland wearing a Poppy is inflammatory and as such I think it mostly (obviously an unsubstantiated opinion) gets peoples backs up. Surely the reason to wear one is to get more money for the charity whereas in Ireland I believe all it does is upset people

    I don't believe it really upsets that many in Ireland. If it did I've seen no evidence of it anyway. I wore it one year while a student in NUI Maynooth. Nobody batted an eyelid.

    This people get upset at it lark is a nonsense.


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    #814
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,975 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    LordSutch wrote: »
    White poppies have been around for ages, they are also a personal choice to signify 'Peace, Not War' .

    Red poppy = War, not peace then?


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    #815
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Red poppy = War, not peace then?

    red poppy's grew in france......very appropriate...


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    #816
    flanno_7hi
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭flanno_7hi


    philologos wrote: »
    I don't believe it really upsets that many in Ireland. If it did I've seen no evidence of it anyway. I wore it one year while a student in NUI Maynooth. Nobody batted an eyelid.

    This people get upset at it lark is a nonsense.

    I've seen my mother get upset about it, altho the british army used to raid her house in the middle of the night in the 70s so I guess she has a reason.


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    #817
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Nodin wrote: »
    'They were only following orders'? Seriously?


    reminds me of a beautiful south song about the war ''They would have shot at rabbits if thats what they've been told''


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    #818
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    No, this is a thread about the the elevent hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month of 1918, and showing respect to all those who died in that conflict, showing respect like those in Enniskillen did in 1987 when a bunch of yellow cowards blew them up!

    No it's not.

    You need to read up on what the poppy signifies and where the monies raised from selling it go.

    It celebrates soldiers that have murdered Irish kids on Irish streets.

    Why would any Irishman want to commemorate these murderers?

    Why doesn't their own country look after them seeing as they put their lives on the line instead of them having to beg?


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    #819
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Latchy wrote: »
    Every major Army in History has behaved as such but that doesn't make it right ,no of course not but the poppy as a symbol means 'Remembrance ' .

    Countrys like China and Japan will have remembrance events ie Nanking / Nagasaki but it's It just tragic and equally sad that the victims of such terrible crimes against humanity don't have something similar on a large scale which represents all peoples across the world .,Remembrance Sunday is not a day for military hype and glory ,on the contary it's plain and simple to remember the falling who gave their life's on the field of battle

    Good point

    Equally good point .




    Obiously people on here who won't wear a poppy because of the funding it brings to ex-british service personnel are entitled to feel as they do and that is to be respected while also remembering that those in the main who do , have no agenda of sorts but simply wear one out of respect .



    So Germany should have a remembrance day for its falling dead who gave their life on the field of battle?


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    #820
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,975 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    golden lane wrote: »
    red poppy's grew in france......very appropriate...

    So Red poppy = War, not peace then?


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    #821
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    billybudd wrote: »


    reminds me of a beautiful south song about the war ''They would have shot at rabbits if thats what they've been told''

    They shot a lot of sheep in Cyprus apparently.

    An old boss of mine was stationed in Nicosia during the uprising. He was doing national service as a rock ape.

    The airfield had small explosive charges on the perimeter triggered ny trip wires, anything that set them off generally got cut to shreds by a handful of teenagers with machine guns. In the morning, there would usually be an irate farmer banging on the CO 's door wanting to know what happened to his sheep.

    As the compensation was about twice the market rate for a sheep, there was mo shortage of targets for the recruits to shoot at.


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    #822
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    They shot a lot of sheep in Cyprus apparently.

    An old boss of mine was stationed in Nicosia during the uprising. He was doing national service as a rock ape.

    The airfield had small explosive charges on the perimeter triggered ny trip wires, anything that set them off generally got cut to shreds by a handful of teenagers with machine guns. In the morning, there would usually be an irate farmer banging on the CO 's door wanting to know what happened to his sheep.

    As the compensation was about twice the market rate for a sheep, there was mo shortage of targets for the recruits to shoot at.


    Dont think the BA where too choosey in who they shot at:pac:


    What was the going rate for an innocent catholic? less than the sheep i bet.


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    #823
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    billybudd wrote: »
    What was the going rate for an innocent catholic? less than the sheep i bet.

    I'm not sure about the rates but you might earn a decoration by the British Queen.
    Colonel Wilford told the [Saville] tribunal he saw or heard nothing which led him to believe paratroopers were out of control at any stage on Bloody Sunday. "Nor did I see any shameful and disgraceful acts," he said.

    The Bloody Sunday families have always regarded it as an insult that Colonel Wilford was decorated by the Queen shortly after Bloody Sunday.

    www.u.tv/BloodySunday

    Thoroughly depraved.


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    #824
    Courtesy Flush
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭Courtesy Flush


    thecommietommy wrote: »
    After all it's for a foreign army, I don't see anyone wearing an emblem for the French, American, Spanish army. Ok some say it's for charity for injured British soldiers, but surely if they join up it's up to the British govt to properly look after them when they are injured and not pestering people expecting charity ?

    First world war. Wasnt a foreign army then. Many Irish men died in the trenches fighing for Britain.


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    #825
    ODriscoll
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭ODriscoll


    Courtesy Flush wrote: »
    First world war. Wasnt a foreign army then. Many Irish men died in the trenches fighing for Britain.

    That is a extremely simplistic overview of the history.

    Many Irish soldiers in the British army of ww1 were in fact former Irish volunteers.

    The Irish Volunteers were formed specifically to help force through Home Rule. A physical resistance against the UVF and Westminster (Britain) if necessary.
    Thousands of Irish volunteers died in the mud of WW1, did so for Ireland and most certainly not for Britain. Many Irish volunteers fought and died because they imagined they were fighting for Ireland. They were cynically used by the Westminster Government who promised them home rule for Ireland. A promise that Westminster broke.
    We should remember and never forget that act of cynical betrayal.

    A Irish free state and later Republic, ignored the role of the Irish volunteers, and shamelessly left their memory to the likes of Kevin Myers to simplify and perverse. Myers has encouraged people like you to believe in a simple and perverse selective account of history.
    You are certainly not paying those thousands of Irish men any respect in your ignorance or bias.


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    #826
    grenache
    Registered Users Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    I have no objection to anyone wearing a poppy....nothing wrong with commemorating the brave actions of the ordinary combat soldier in the field.

    But the whole irony of Britain in WWI fighting to free "little Belgium and Holland" really grates me....considering they wouldn't do the same for little Ireland.


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    #827
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    flanno_7hi wrote: »
    I've seen my mother get upset about it, altho the british army used to raid her house in the middle of the night in the 70s so I guess she has a reason.
    Except the red poppy as a symbol isn't related to that?


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    #828
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Nodin wrote: »
    'They were only following orders'? Seriously?

    Who was? Are you trying to make my comment out to be justifying genocide? I'm talking about the soldiers on the ground who are simply fighting to stay alive. You can try make it all about the minority of bad soldiers who do bad things if you want. I won't be arguing with such a pathetic attempt at misdirection


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    #829
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    philologos wrote: »
    Except the red poppy as a symbol isn't related to that?


    Philologos, it is used as the symbol for a charity that uses the proceeds to help with current and past BA personnel who were injured in active duty, surely as a rationale person you can see and understand how that symbol can inflame and upset people who have been affected by the long troubled history between our two nations.


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    #830
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    billybudd wrote: »
    Philologos, it is used as the symbol for a charity that uses the proceeds to help with current and past BA personnel who were injured in active duty, surely as a rationale person you can see and understand how that symbol can inflame and upset people who have been affected by the long troubled history between our two nations.

    The symbol doesn't specifically glorify British troops. I've no problem supporting retired / injured servicemen with my money.

    I'm just saying I've seen no evidence of people getting upset due to wearing it in Ireland. And even if they did, that's not a good enough reason to stop me remembering the war dead every year. There's nothing morally wrong about it.


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    #831
    thecommietommy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    grenache wrote: »
    I have no objection to anyone wearing a poppy....nothing wrong with commemorating the brave actions of the ordinary combat soldier in the field.

    But the whole irony of Britain in WWI fighting to free "little Belgium and Holland" really grates me....considering they wouldn't do the same for little Ireland.
    Yes as the expression goes, if WW1 was about the freedom of small nations how come the British empire was bigger at the end of it than before it.


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    #832
    lukesmom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,400 ✭✭✭lukesmom


    No chance would I wear a poppy. It's a British tradition and I'm republican Irish.


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    #833
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    I wear a poppy every year. For the tens of thousands of Irish men who died in both world wars. For the soldiers who died saving us from Nazi tyranny, Irish/American/British. For the soldiers who died in those wars ... for reasons beyond fundamentalist political dogma.


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    #834
    summerskin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭summerskin


    lukesmom wrote: »
    No chance would I wear a poppy. It's a British tradition and I'm republican Irish.


    So do you not take Bank Holidays? They're a British tradition too.


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    #835
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Who was? Are you trying to make my comment out to be justifying genocide? I'm talking about the soldiers on the ground who are simply fighting to stay alive. You can try make it all about the minority of bad soldiers who do bad things if you want. I won't be arguing with such a pathetic attempt at misdirection

    When the orders are to be brutal, what then?


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    #836
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    philologos wrote: »
    The symbol doesn't specifically glorify British troops. I've no problem supporting retired / injured servicemen with my money.
    .

    ...despite what they may have been doing or involved in. But you won't wear a lilly.


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    #837
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    billybudd wrote: »
    So Germany should have a remembrance day for its falling dead who gave their life on the field of battle?
    You'll find the a debate on the subject here .

    http://ask.metafilter.com/137803/Les-we-forget


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    #838
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    thecommietommy wrote: »
    Yes as the expression goes, if WW1 was about the freedom of small nations how come the British empire was bigger at the end of it than before it.

    Because they were on the winning side. The empire may have grown as a result, but that wasn't what the war was about.

    It's like saying people only go to Haiti to get a suntan not build homes for people.


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    #839
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Nodin wrote: »

    When the orders are to be brutal, what then?
    Then you join the IRA & do what they do best.


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    #840
    lukesmom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,400 ✭✭✭lukesmom


    summerskin wrote: »


    So do you not take Bank Holidays? They're a British tradition too.


    I take IRISH bank holidays. You do realise Britain have different dates of bank holidays dont you??? So that was a pretty pointless reply to my post.


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    #841
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Then you join the IRA & do what they do best.

    Whats that to do with the discussion?

    By the way earlier, if you recall, you stated
    lelantos wrote:
    The NGA is a supposed non party affiliated organisation, but it was run by IRA members, so that wasn't true. The vast majority of sales went to Sinn Féin & other organizations.

    Do you have a source/sources to show that (a) the NGA was run by IRA members and (b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations"?

    Do you have some proof, or will you do the decent thing and withdraw the allegations?


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