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Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    An Irish person should wear a poppy, so as to refuse to be defined by those imperialist dogs across the sea, who try to claim everything and dictate the way things should be... I'll wear a poppy, because I like to wear poppies, **** the man!!!

    And tomorrow, I might wear poppies and daisys, I don't have to have a reason, just because I want to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭RossyG


    Nodin wrote: »
    Are you implying the victims of bloody sunday were "scumbags"?

    Dear-oh-dear! Wake up at the back there!

    The poster was referring to a "murdering scumbag army" which I, for comedic purposes, took to interpret as an army who murdered scumbags.

    Said scumbags were fiction, as was the idea that Fratton Fred controlled an army.

    So there's really nothing there for you to try and score points off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭Wade in the Sea


    After all it's for a foreign army, I don't see anyone wearing an emblem for the French, American, Spanish army. Ok some say it's for charity for injured British soldiers, but surely if they join up it's up to the British govt to properly look after them when they are injured and not pestering people expecting charity ?

    1. In 1914 "southern Ireland" was a part of the British Empire so the British army was not a foreign army. The men who served predominantly served in Irish regiments like, the Irish Guards and various Munster, Leinster, Connaught divisions and fusilier regiments.


    2. An Irish person would wear the poppy in memory of the Irishmen, and especially family members, who fell during the two world wars.


    Hope this answers your question. Well done on poll. Never realised the poppy had become so acceptable. Such a change from not so many years ago. Maybe we are finally starting to mature as a nation taking pride in our past instead of always looking back with bitterness.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    RossyG wrote: »
    Nice bit of goalpost moving.

    By the way, I didn't know Fratton Fred owned the British Army. Still, if they go around murdering scumbags then it can't be a bad thing, can it?



    Who exactly is the scumbag? i think i know.

    FF suprised you thanked this post. one thing to argue a point, one other to be thanking a scumbag.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    billybudd wrote: »



    Who exactly is the scumbag? i think i know.

    FF suprised you thanked this post. one thing to argue a point, one other to be thanking a scumbag.

    what??


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Don't know if this was posted already, I doubt it somehow! I was down visiting ny mothers this morning, if she can get to mass she watchs it on the TV. Mass was from Drogheda today, I would say about 80-90% of people there wre wearing poppies; they must have given them out on the way in.

    I don't know the full story, but a minister was also present and with the day that is in I hear part of the sermon was about wars and the people who serve in them. I don't have any issues with people wearing poppies, both my grandfathers served in WWI. I was suprised at the amount of people wearing a poppy, even the choir wore them.

    I did not pay much attention to the mass but at the same time I was happy to see it happen. Anyway thatis my 2c.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    RossyG wrote: »
    Dear-oh-dear! Wake up at the back there!

    The poster was referring to a "murdering scumbag army" which I, for comedic purposes, took to interpret as an army who murdered scumbags.

    Said scumbags were fiction, as was the idea that Fratton Fred controlled an army.

    So there's really nothing there for you to try and score points off.


    Backtracking, certainly there was no humour or sarcasm in your post.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    what??


    Well you thanked the post did you not?


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭RossyG


    billybudd wrote: »
    Backtracking, certainly there was no humour or sarcasm in your post.

    What, the one where I said Fratton Fred owns the British army?


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭RossyG


    billybudd wrote: »
    Who exactly is the scumbag? i think i know.
    .

    Do tell.
    one other to be thanking a scumbag.

    Oh, you mean me.

    Thanks.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,279 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Never realised the poppy had become so acceptable.
    well in fairness most irish people now days accept any old thing, they just sit there and take everything thats thrown at them.
    Maybe we are finally starting to mature as a nation
    we always were mature as a nation.
    taking pride in our past
    we always did, some people take pride in our boys fighting the british in 1916.
    instead of always looking back with bitterness.
    i don't believe condemning what the british army did in the north is (looking back with bitterness) but each to their own.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    RossyG wrote: »
    Do tell.



    Oh, you mean me.

    Thanks.


    Full stop. after the British army. Still if they go around murdering scumbags.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    1. In 1914 "southern Ireland" was a part of the British Empire so the British army was not a foreign army.


    Patently, it was - unless you're contending that military might makes moral right? Are you? By that thinking all other countries and peoples living under British occupation - about 22% of planet earth in 1914 - were not fighting against a "foreign army" when they fought back/for freedom.


  • Site Banned Posts: 33 yard_king


    keith wood was wearing a poppy on the rugby on bbc yesterday , BOD and rob kearney were not , i guess woody is staff so felt the pressure to


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    1. In 1914 "southern Ireland" was a part of the British Empire so the British army was not a foreign army. The men who served predominantly served in Irish regiments like, the Irish Guards and various Munster, Leinster, Connaught divisions and fusilier regiments.


    2. An Irish person would wear the poppy in memory of the Irishmen, and especially family members, who fell during the two world wars.


    Hope this answers your question. Well done on poll. Never realised the poppy had become so acceptable. Such a change from not so many years ago. Maybe we are finally starting to mature as a nation taking pride in our past instead of always looking back with bitterness.


    So if you invite someone into your house and they refuse to leave because all of a sudden they think that house should be theirs, then that is ok because obviously they are no longer a foreign entity? and this is lawful how? Then/now?


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭RossyG


    billybudd wrote: »
    Full stop. after the British army. Still if they go around murdering scumbags.

    Presuming you're being serious and not just trolling, you seem to have spiralled off into absurdity.

    I didn't mention the Bloody Sunday victims in my post, someone else did. I'm not sure why they equated scumbags with those unfortunate individuals, but there it is.

    You seem very quick to find offensive where none was intended.

    Oh, and sorry to Fratton Fred for having dragged him into this ridiculous bickering.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    yard_king wrote: »
    keith wood was wearing a poppy on the rugby on bbc yesterday , BOD and rob kearney were not , i guess woody is staff so felt the pressure to
    Or the others are just pathetic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    Piliger wrote: »
    Should have given them medals.

    They probably did - after all they are all 'hero's':rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭RossyG


    Madam wrote: »
    They probably did - after all they are all 'hero's':rolleyes:

    They were collecting for Help For Heroes in my local Sainsbury's the other day. I slunk away. I don't wish them ill or anything but dubbing everyone a hero just because they don a uniform completely devalues the word. If they're all heroes what happens if one of them does something really heroic. Or if another one tortures a suspect?

    It seems to be dying down now, but a year or so ago there was a very unhealthy attitude to the armed forces amongst certain types in the UK. There was an underlying sense of coercion to it, as well. You will support our boys, or else. Judging by online posts from serving soldiers, they were just as uncomfortable about it.

    I remember one silly woman on BBC's Question Time saying, "The army shouldn't be doing what the government say; the government should be doing what the army say." It was up to William Hague of all people to point out that military dictatorships don't tend to be good things.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    RossyG wrote: »
    Presuming you're being serious and not just trolling, you seem to have spiralled off into absurdity.

    I didn't mention the Bloody Sunday victims in my post, someone else did. I'm not sure why they equated scumbags with those unfortunate individuals, but there it is.

    You seem very quick to find offensive where none was intended.

    Oh, and sorry to Fratton Fred for having dragged him into this ridiculous bickering.


    I point something out and you think i am trolling? My issue was the quip of murdering scumbags there is a fine line sometimes between war hero and murderer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    Piliger wrote: »
    Should have given them medals.

    They shouldn't. At least in the view of moral, decent and educated citizens of the western world they should not.

    But, I suppose, they were wearing British uniforms and therefore they can do no wrong in the eyes of people without that morality or decency. Tribe over humanity, and all that.


    Saddening, depressingly saddening. The really sad thing is that there are so many lovely, open-minded, intelligent British people who would have no truck with the tribalism of this British poppy fascism - but they are not represented on this forum. Jon Snow has been mentioned, but many, many other British people are embarrassed at how the poppy and a romanticised British nationalist interpretation of war is being forced upon people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭RossyG


    billybudd wrote: »
    I point something out and you think i am trolling? My issue was the quip of murdering scumbags there is a fine line sometimes between war hero and murderer.

    If it helps, I don't think the soldiers behind Bloody Sunday were heroes. I wouldn't call them scumbags either, mind, just scared young men with guns in a situation they weren't able to cope with. Perhaps there was an element of dehumanising going on, as well.

    I suppose Bloody Sunday was our Kent State massacre; innocent protesters gunned down by panicking young people who should never have been there in the first place.

    The scumbags I had in mind in my original post were troublemaking chavs and knackers. I certainly wasn't thinking of the Bloody Sunday victims. As I said, that one came from someone else.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    RossyG wrote: »
    If it helps, I don't think the soldiers behind Bloody Sunday were heroes. I wouldn't call them scumbags either, mind, just scared young men with guns in a situation they weren't able to cope with.

    I suppose Bloody Sunday was our Kent State massacre; innocent protesters gunned down by panicking young people who should never have been there in the first place.

    The scumbags I had in mind in my original post were troublemaking chavs and knackers. I certainly wasn't thinking of the Bloody Sunday victims. As I said, that one came from someone else.


    FFS and you think im trolling? Murder is never ok, we have laws and courts that decide right from wrong.

    There was two bloody sundays in Ireland, the BA were murderers in both!
    Frankly this post is sickening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    billybudd wrote: »
    There was two bloody sundays in Ireland, the BA were murderers in both!

    There were, and people often forget Bloody Sunday in 1887 which was against British coercion in Ireland was thus also intrinsically connected with Ireland.

    Bloody Sunday 1887

    "Two thousand police and 400 troops were deployed to halt the demonstration. In the ensuing clashes many demonstrators, including women and children, were badly beaten. Some demonstrators were injured and at least three died of the injuries they received. 200 were treated in hospital."


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    They were not 'panicky young people' either! They were a crack squad(supposedly) of First Battalion, The Parachute Regiment - I know because my brother was a serving member - long after Bloody Sunday - my mother never spoke to him for nearly a year after joining(we come from a Nationalist/Republican background on her side)!


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭RossyG


    billybudd wrote: »
    Murder is never ok, we have laws and courts that decide right from wrong.

    There was two bloody sundays in Ireland, the BA were murderers in both!
    Frankly this post is sickening.

    Again, you seem to be finding offence where none was intended.

    I was talking about the 1970s Bloody Sunday. I don't think murder is ok. I don't think that incident was right. The soldiers who did it were wrong. Why do you keep implying that I think otherwise?


  • Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭Wade in the Sea


    billybudd wrote: »
    So if you invite someone into your house and they refuse to leave because all of a sudden they think that house should be theirs, then that is ok because obviously they are no longer a foreign entity? and this is lawful how? Then/now?

    No, simply that the British army at that time was the official army.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    Aodh Rua wrote: »
    There were, and people often forget Bloody Sunday in 1887 which was against British coercion in Ireland was thus also intrinsically connected with Ireland.

    Bloody Sunday 1887

    "Two thousand police and 400 troops were deployed to halt the demonstration. In the ensuing clashes many demonstrators, including women and children, were badly beaten. Some demonstrators were injured and at least three died of the injuries they received. 200 were treated in hospital."

    FFS,Is this ever going to end ?... I'm pissing myself laughing here.Soon we'll be looking for leprechauns under the beds.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    mattjack wrote: »
    FFS,Is this ever going to end ?... I'm pissing myself laughing here.Soon we'll be looking for leprechauns under the beds.

    Nasty and does not equate! Continue with the pissing though:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    Madam wrote: »
    Nasty and does not equate! Continue with the pissing though:rolleyes:

    In 1887 and in another country ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    mattjack wrote: »
    FFS,Is this ever going to end ?... I'm pissing myself laughing here.Soon we'll be looking for leprechauns under the beds.

    If you could, perhaps, start with a space between a period and the first word of the following sentence that might be even more constructive. Like this.

    Bloody Sunday in 1887 happened, and it was caused by British misrule in Ireland. That you have problems with its happening is, really, your problem.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    RossyG wrote: »
    Again, you seem to be finding offence where none was intended.

    I was talking about the 1970s Bloody Sunday. I don't think murder is ok. I don't think that incident was right. The soldiers who did it were wrong. Why do you keep implying that I think otherwise?


    Because you keep saying things that would imply that.

    Thinking its ok for chavs and knackers to be murdered is ok?

    Thinking the other two BS where just done by some inexperienced frightened soldiers? what else could i think?


  • Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭Wade in the Sea


    Aodh Rua wrote: »
    Patently, it was - unless you're contending that military might makes moral right? Are you? By that thinking all other countries and peoples living under British occupation - about 22% of planet earth in 1914 - were not fighting against a "foreign army" when they fought back/for freedom.

    No, there is no correlation between military and moral right. And I mentioned neither. I merely pointed out that the Irish largely fought in Irish regiments in what was "the army". I am not sure what point you are making with the statistic of 22% of the planet fighting a foreign army? Who are you talking about? I assume you are not trying to make the point that everyone in the British Empire was seeking independence? Even Ireland was not seeking total independence in 1914, only home rule, which for those supporting Redmond was why they joined up in the first place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    Aodh Rua wrote: »
    If you could, perhaps, start with a space between a period and the first word of the following sentence that might be even more constructive. Like this.

    Bloody Sunday in 1887 happened, and it was caused by British misrule in Ireland. That you have problems with its happening is, really, your problem.

    And the connection with the poppy is ?

    If we could , perhaps , move forward and stop dwelling on the past .


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Aodh Rua wrote: »

    They shouldn't. At least in the view of moral, decent and educated citizens of the western world they should not.

    But, I suppose, they were wearing British uniforms and therefore they can do no wrong in the eyes of people without that morality or decency. Tribe over humanity, and all that.


    Saddening, depressingly saddening. The really sad thing is that there are so many lovely, open-minded, intelligent British people who would have no truck with the tribalism of this British poppy fascism - but they are not represented on this forum. Jon Snow has been mentioned, but many, many other British people are embarrassed at how the poppy and a romanticised British nationalist interpretation of war is being forced upon people.

    Where did you pick this up from?

    There may be some tribalism and poppy fascism has already been discussed and hopefully is on the decline now. The BBC and Skymight put pressure on people to wear it, but I've not encountered any pressure in the real world.

    99% of British people that wear the poppy do so for two maim reasons. To show respect for those killed in two world wars (as I've pointed out several times, we had conscription in Britain, so those that died were not volunteers) and to show support for the brave men and women serving with the UN in Afghanistan.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    No, there is no correlation between military and moral right. And I mentioned neither. I merely pointed out that the Irish largely fought in Irish regiments in what was "the army". I am not sure what point you are making with the statistic of 22% of the planet fighting a foreign army? Who are you talking about? I assume you are not trying to make the point that everyone in the British Empire was seeking independence?

    Clearly, if you're supporting a British Empire, there's a clear correlation between military might and power. Why are you denying this and trying to portray British rule in foreign places like Ireland or Kenya as being there to help the natives, rather than to enrich the imperial power and its servants?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    mattjack wrote: »
    And the connection with the poppy is ? If we could , perhaps , move forward and stop dwelling on the past .

    This has to be a parody. You're here dwelling on the past and trying to laud, with your poppy, people who fought for British imperialism and then you turn around and ask us to, and I quote, "move forward and stop dwelling on the past". Ahem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭Wade in the Sea


    billybudd wrote: »
    So if you invite someone into your house and they refuse to leave because all of a sudden they think that house should be theirs, then that is ok because obviously they are no longer a foreign entity? and this is lawful how? Then/now?

    You are saying British and Irish aren't the same thing "then/now" But in 1914 it was, as it is in Northern Ireland today. You may choose to rebel as some did, or not, as the majority did/does.


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭RossyG


    billybudd wrote: »
    Thinking its ok for chavs and knackers to be murdered is ok?

    Yes, I really, really think that. That's exactly what I think. I was being completely and utterly serious.
    Thinking the other two BS where just done by some inexperienced frightened soldiers?

    I never mentioned the first Bloody Sunday. Once again words being put in my mouth.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    No, simply that the British army at that time was the official army.

    The British Army has never been the official army of Ireland. It has, of course, been the official army of the British occupying state in Ireland.

    This difference would be appreciated by most connoisseurs of the English language, and by all historians of Ireland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    Aodh Rua wrote: »
    This has to be a parody. You're here dwelling on the past and trying to laud, with your poppy, people who fought for British imperialism and then you turn around and ask us to, and I quote, "move forward and stop dwelling on the past". Ahem.

    I,m not dwelling on anything.

    My "poppy" ? what are you on about ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    99% of British people that wear the poppy do so for two maim reasons. To show respect for those killed in two world wars (as I've pointed out several times, we had conscription in Britain, so those that died were not volunteers) and to show support for the brave men and women serving with the UN in Afghanistan.

    And those who have served\are serving in the BA anywhere else, including NI. Frankly saying prayers at a remembrance ceremony for the present British armed forces has nothing to do with us Irish, we have our own Irish army thank you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    mattjack wrote: »
    I,m not dwelling on anything.

    My "poppy" ? what are you on about ?

    Your poppy is commemorating people who fought (past tense) for the British Empire in one of its guises. Coming here and telling the Irish to "stop dwelling on the past" is, er, just a little bit rich when it's clear that your real problem is that they're not "dwelling" on your very British nationalistic interpretation of "the past".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Seriously guys.....you cannot still be coming up with original material for this thread at this stage...:(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    You are saying British and Irish aren't the same thing "then/now" But in 1914 it was, as it is in Northern Ireland today. You may choose to rebel as some did, or not, as the majority did


    In whose eyes were they legal?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs



    it is possible to be Irish and British. Ask the Ulster players.

    The team is not the Republic of Ireland team.
    Eh, well done..... What's your point? Am I wrong or are you just stirring it for the craic?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    Aodh Rua wrote: »
    Your poppy is commemorating people who fought (past tense) for the British Empire in one of its guises. Coming here and telling the Irish to "stop dwelling on the past" is, er, just a little bit rich when it's clear that your real problem is that they're not "dwelling" on your very British nationalistic interpretation of "the past".

    Coming here ? from where ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Where did you pick this up from?

    There may be some tribalism and poppy fascism has already been discussed and hopefully is on the decline now. The BBC and Skymight put pressure on people to wear it, but I've not encountered any pressure in the real world.

    99% of British people that wear the poppy do so for two maim reasons. To show respect for those killed in two world wars (as I've pointed out several times, we had conscription in Britain, so those that died were not volunteers) and to show support for the brave men and women serving with the UN in Afghanistan.


    Yeah very brave with your complicity in drone attacks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Aodh Rua wrote: »
    Your poppy is commemorating people who fought (past tense) for the British Empire in one of its guises. Coming here and telling the Irish to "stop dwelling on the past" is, er, just a little bit rich when it's clear that your real problem is that they're not "dwelling" on your very British nationalistic interpretation of "the past".


    Yeah...it's no longer Remembrance Day but Remembrance Week on the BBC.

    From 2014-2018 they will have 4 years worth of nostalgia to get all excited about...it's a pity they don't spend more time devoted to the future rather than the 'The good aul days'.


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