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Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

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    #752
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,992 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    billybudd wrote: »
    I march once a year for the brave Mau-mau rebellion brothers and sisters who lost their lives in the 50's Kenya.

    The Mau Mau weren't exactly the Salvation Army, you must be very lonely marching on your own.


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    #753
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    billybudd wrote: »
    Yes i know, seperate issue? how so, should i wear half a poppy for the half who died in a noble war?
    I don't really concern myself with these silly issues but like the debate over weather Irish people should wear a poppy or not , I've seen some Irish people on parades wear a metal pin badge which has both tricolor and union jack (union flag) together , indicating they are supportive and representing people of both nationality's , a small but significant gesture .


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    #754
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Latchy wrote: »
    I don't really concern myself with these issues but like the debate over weather Irish people should wear a poppy or not , I've seen some Irish people on parades wear a metal pin badge which has both tricolor and union jack (union flag) together , indicating they are supportive and representing people of both nationality's , a small but significant gesture .


    Cool, but this thread is about the poppy?


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    #755
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    gurramok wrote: »
    Will you be remembering the Bloody Sunday soldiers at the commemoration?
    As mentioned you'll find that many hundreds of Irish who march in Remembrance Sunday parade will be marching to remember all Irishmen ''north and south '' who died in conflicts as well as others who died in conflicts around the world ,which is not specific to one period in history but you'll also find that all ex soldiers, regardless of who they are, or where they are from, will not want to be associated with the behavior and history of some regiments and that goes without saying but it doesn't and shouldn't stop them from remembering the bigger and wider history of events involved .

    I'm sure the American ex servicemen who served during world war two wouldn't like to be associated with those involved in Mai Lai massacre in Vietnam or the behavior of some of their soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan ...different events of different generations.
    billybudd wrote: »
    Cool, but this thread is about the poppy?
    Nor is it about the Mau Mau uprising ... like how many threads do you see in AH which go totally off topic ? You can post additional information without doing so just as I have done .


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    #756
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Latchy wrote: »
    As mentioned you'll find that many hundreds of Irish who march in Remembrance Sunday parade will be marching to remember all Irishmen ''north and south '' who died in conflicts as well as others who died in conflicts around the world ,which is not specific to one period in history but you'll also find that all ex soldiers, regardless of who they are, or where they are from, will not want to be associated with the behavior and history of some regiments and that goes without saying but it doesn't and shouldn't stop them from remembering the bigger and wider history of events involved .

    I'm sure the American ex servicemen who served during world war two wouldn't like to be associated with those involved in Mai Lai massacre in Vietnam or the behavior of some of their soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan ...different events of different generations.

    Nor is it about the Mau Mau uprising ... like how many threads do you see in AH which go totally off topic ? You can post additional information without doing so just as I have done .


    Well its not OT because its one of the many reasons why i would not wear a poppy.


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    #757
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    billybudd wrote: »
    Well its not OT because its one of the many reasons why i would not wear a poppy.
    The people who fought on the British side in the Mau Mau Rebellion are represented by people from Kenya who wear poppy's .That is all on that .


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    #758
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Again, look at the associate members of the organisation, see where the members of the groups meet, see who goes to those meetings. ...............


    Lets try this again - you made two very specific serious allegations
    The NGA is a supposed non party affiliated organisation, but it was run by IRA members, so that wasn't true. The vast majority of sales went to Sinn Féin & other organizations.

    Do you have a source/sources to show that (a) the NGA was run by IRA members and (b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations"?


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    #759
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Latchy wrote: »
    The people who fought on the British side in the Mau Mau Rebellion are represented by people from Kenya who wear poppy's .That is all on that .


    Cool, as i said i believe in freedom and just because i dont agree with it does not mean i do not respect people who do.


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    #760
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Latchy wrote: »
    As mentioned you'll find that many hundreds of Irish who march in Remembrance Sunday parade will be marching to remember all Irishmen ''north and south '' who died in conflicts as well as others who died in conflicts around the world ,which is not specific to one period in history but you'll also find that all ex soldiers, regardless of who they are, or where they are from, will not want to be associated with the behavior and history of some regiments and that goes without saying but it doesn't and shouldn't stop them from remembering the bigger and wider history of events involved .

    I'm sure the American ex servicemen who served during world war two wouldn't like to be associated with those involved in Mai Lai massacre in Vietnam or the behavior of some of their soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan ...different events of different generations.

    Is this an admission of shame about "regiments" like the Para's? Do you have a problem funding their ex-members welfare?


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    #761
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    people have a free choice to give money to who they want to.....

    many posters on here would like to take that freedom away......

    lives have been taken by all sides in all wars and conflicts.....get over it.....


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    #762
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    gurramok wrote: »
    Is this an admission of shame about "regiments" like the Para's?
    You would have to ask somebody who served in the Paras that question .
    Do you have a problem funding their ex-members welfare?
    Do you always ask such like questions like your in a court of law or something ?

    I buy a Poppy !


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    #763
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Don't forget the British army readmitted the scum who murdered teenager Peter McBride.

    One of the two left the army after being injured in Afghanistan. And you lot give him money. The BA have consistently defended and covered up murders by their soldiers. And when they are caught, like Mark Wright and James Fisher were, they pat them on the back and keep them in the army, as if they did nothing wrong.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/nov/25/northernireland.richardnortontaylor
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3850831.stm

    Soldiers get chucked out of the British army for smoking weed. Obviously a far worse crime than murdering an Irish teenager.


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    #764
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    GRMA wrote: »
    Don't forget the British army readmitted the scum who murdered teenager Peter McBride.

    One of the two left the army after being injured in Afghanistan. And you lot give him money. The BA have consistently defended and covered up murders by their soldiers. And when they are caught, like Mark Wright and James Fisher were, they pat them on the back and keep them in the army, as if they did nothing wrong.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/nov/25/northernireland.richardnortontaylor
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3850831.stm

    Soldiers get chucked out of the British army for smoking weed. Obviously a far worse crime than murdering an Irish teenager.
    Wheras the brave IRA vent their venom on kids buying mothers day presents in warrington, or aussie tourists in germany!
    Don't engage in whatabouttery unless you want to face some pretty nasty facts about the IRA both old and provo!


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    #765
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Latchy wrote: »
    You would have to ask somebody who served in the Paras that question .

    Do you always ask such like questions like your in a court of law or something ?

    I buy a Poppy !

    I'm asking you as you are involved by your own admission in the Poppy Day events.

    The question is 100% relevant, you buy a poppy every year and have no problem funding the welfare of killers who murdered Irish civilians.


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    #766
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    Wheras the brave IRA vent their venom on kids buying mothers day presents in warrington, or aussie tourists in germany!
    Don't engage in whatabouttery unless you want to face some pretty nasty facts about the IRA both old and provo!
    Who's talking about the IRA? What's the poppy to do with them?


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    #767
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    Wheras the brave IRA vent their venom on kids buying mothers day presents in warrington, or aussie tourists in germany!
    Don't engage in whatabouttery unless you want to face some pretty nasty facts about the IRA both old and provo!


    well now in fairness since the beginning of its time the BA has made the IRA look like alter boys. I can assure you there is alot more nasty facts regarding the BA than there is about the IRA. Neither is right but both had their orders right?


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    #768
    edgecutter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭edgecutter


    We should prehaps create another symbol for Irish that died. Too many atrocities from the British army to our soil from them for us to plaster on a poppy (bloody Sunday, black and tans)


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    #769
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,026 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    Wheras the brave IRA vent their venom on kids buying mothers day presents in warrington, or aussie tourists in germany!
    Don't engage in whatabouttery unless you want to face some pretty nasty facts about the IRA both old and provo!

    Are you putting the IRA up to the status of an Army?


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    #770
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Nodin wrote: »


    Lets try this again - you made two very specific serious allegations


    Do you have a source/sources to show that (a) the NGA was run by IRA members and (b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations"?
    Serious allegations? The truth is beyond some provos & their ilk. Again, since you are being a little obtuse, just look at the associate members & you have your answers. But I believe you already know this.


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    #771
    indioblack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭indioblack


    gurramok wrote: »
    Is this an admission of shame about "regiments" like the Para's? Do you have a problem funding their ex-members welfare?

    It seemed like a reasonable reply to me.
    Why should he feel shame concerning the behaviour of individuals in the military?
    Would you want to be expected to feel personal shame about the activities of some of your countrymen?
    I assume most of the funding of former members of the military comes from the UK taxpayer - are we therefore all guilty of supporting the killers on Bloody Sunday?


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    #772
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    indioblack wrote: »
    It seemed like a reasonable reply to me.
    Why should he feel shame concerning the behaviour of individuals in the military?
    Would you want to be expected to feel personal shame about the activities of some of your countrymen?
    I assume most of the funding of former members of the military comes from the UK taxpayer - are we therefore all guilty of supporting the killers on Bloody Sunday?

    Buying a poppy funds the welfare of ex-members of the BA who murdered Irish civilians. It on the RBL link I showed you.

    No, it wasn't a reasonable reply, he dodged the question. You seriously have to ask why he should feel shame about the behaviour of individuals in the military who represent him? How about murder of a couple hundred Irish unarmed civilians of all ages and gender from 1970 onwards. Unless you are also ok with soldiers murdering civilans :mad:


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    #773
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    gurramok wrote: »
    I'm asking you as you are involved by your own admission in the Poppy Day events.
    Yes by doing so (we) do more for Anglo Irish relations then anything else simply by been there .The great thing about it is seeing people from all these islands mix before and after the event for a chat and sometime take the piss because we don''t all see eye to eye on everything either ( we are not sheep ) .

    Then we all go home .:)


    The question is 100% relevant,
    You're under the illusion that I and millions more like me have to answer such questions .Wrong


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    #774
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Latchy wrote: »
    Yes by doing so (we) do more for Anglo Irish relations then anything else simply by been there .The great thing about it is seeing people from all these islands mix before and after the event for a chat and sometime take the piss because we don''t all see eye to eye on everything either ( we are not sheep ) .

    Then we all go home .:)

    Do the victims be there?
    Latchy wrote: »
    You're under the illusion that I and millions more like me have to answer such questions .Wrong

    So you don't care about killers killing civilians in your name and funding their welfare by buying a poppy, lovely attitude.


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    #775
    indioblack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭indioblack


    gurramok wrote: »
    Buying a poppy funds the welfare of ex-members of the BA who murdered Irish civilians. It on the RBL link I showed you.

    No, it wasn't a reasonable reply, he dodged the question. You seriously have to ask why he should feel shame about the behaviour of individuals in the military who represent him? How about murder of a couple hundred Irish unarmed civilians of all ages and gender from 1970 onwards. Unless you are also ok with soldiers murdering civilans :mad:

    I was sitting in a pub in Cork when the murder of the British ambassador came on the tv - my Irish cousin asked for my thoughts and my immediate reply was "you didn't do it".
    If you are right in that he should feel shame then so should anyone who indirectly funds the military through taxation - unlike the Poppy Appeal, though, they have no choice - logically, though, that cannot absolve them of responsibilities.
    I would not expect you to feel shame over the deaths caused by paramilitary groups - as an individual you may or may not feel regret - depending on how you view it.
    You ask if I am in favour of murder - well, take a chance and assume I'm not!


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    #776
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    indioblack wrote: »
    I would not expect you to feel shame over the deaths caused by paramilitary groups - as an individual you may or may not feel regret - depending on how you view it.
    You ask if I am in favour of murder - well, take a chance and assume I'm not!

    What the IRA did was not in my name or the Irish people's name. What the BA did was in the British people's name, they are agents of the British state.

    The poppy has been hijacked to glorify said BA killers who along with never been convicted or murdering civilians in NI, receive funds directly from the buying of the poppy. You have that choice to buy a white poppy instead to dissolve yourself from associating with murderers.


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    #777
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Serious allegations? The truth is beyond some provos & their ilk. Again, since you are being a little obtuse, just look at the associate members & you have your answers. But I believe you already know this.


    You seem to be confusing "somebody said on the internet" and hearsay with evidence and proof. You made very serious, very specific allegations. Now if somebody "o theres republicans on the committee" then thats fair enough, because you could be from any walk of life and a number of parties and be a republican. You also alleged criminal misuse of funds.

    So, again, from the top - you stated
    The NGA is a supposed non party affiliated organisation, but it was run by IRA members, so that wasn't true. The vast majority of sales went to Sinn Féin & other organizations.

    Do you have a source/sources to show that (a) the NGA was run by IRA members and (b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations"?

    Either please provide some proof, or be as good as to withdraw the allegations.


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    #778
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    There's more than enough reasons on this site not to wear a poppy:

    http://www.britisharmykillings.org.uk/

    Might be a bit of uncomfortable reading for some people here.


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    #779
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Nodin wrote: »


    You seem to be confusing "somebody said on the internet" and hearsay with evidence and proof. You made very serious, very specific allegations. Now if somebody "o theres republicans on the committee" then thats fair enough, because you could be from any walk of life and a number of parties and be a republican. You also alleged criminal misuse of funds.

    So, again, from the top - you stated



    Do you have a source/sources to show that (a) the NGA was run by IRA members and (b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations"?

    Either please provide some proof, or be as good as to withdraw the allegations.
    Ok, let's put it another way, prove me 100% incorrect & then we will talk. I have no intention or interest in naming names on an internet forum. You can waffle all day long for all I care. Anyone who has ever been to Bodenstown for the commemoration will tell you who was there, who spoke & exactly how close the NGA are to Sinn fein.


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    #780
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Ok, let's put it another way, prove me 100% incorrect & then we will talk. I have no intention or interest in naming names on an internet forum. You can waffle all day long for all I care. Anyone who has ever been to Bodenstown for the commemoration will tell you who was there, who spoke & exactly how close the NGA are to Sinn fein.
    Doesnt work that way. You make serious allegations like that, you need to back them up. You're accusing a group of lying and funding the IRA etc. You need to provide proof, or withdraw the accusation.


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    #781
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    gurramok So you don't care about killers killing civilians in your name and funding their welfare by buying a poppy, lovely attitude.

    I don't care that people like you are using what the poppy means as something that you pinpoint down to one terrible event in recent history which has been wildly acknowledged by all and sundry, including the military and was I'm aware , still under investigation .

    We can only hope that those who lost there loved ones get the justice they deserve .Everybody everywhere , including many across the political divide and military who wish to see this to .

    Americans ,Canadians ,British Irish and other Europeans, who lost millions in the great wars wear the poppy to remember their great grandfathers and grandfathers . Indioblack pointed out , the british tax payers is funding soldiers ,their family's and former soldiers family's .
    gurramok wrote: »
    Do the victims be there?
    It's a silly question in it's intentions of pin pointing everything in your posts down to bloody sunday but I'll answer it .

    The last person to survive the great war died this year but meeting British ,American ,Canadian ,Dutch Veterans of world war two veterans is very interesting because they share a common bond and horrific experiences, the likes of which many including I never have and hopefully never will .


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