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Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,165 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    billybudd wrote: »
    I march once a year for the brave Mau-mau rebellion brothers and sisters who lost their lives in the 50's Kenya.

    The Mau Mau weren't exactly the Salvation Army, you must be very lonely marching on your own.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    billybudd wrote: »
    Yes i know, seperate issue? how so, should i wear half a poppy for the half who died in a noble war?
    I don't really concern myself with these silly issues but like the debate over weather Irish people should wear a poppy or not , I've seen some Irish people on parades wear a metal pin badge which has both tricolor and union jack (union flag) together , indicating they are supportive and representing people of both nationality's , a small but significant gesture .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Latchy wrote: »
    I don't really concern myself with these issues but like the debate over weather Irish people should wear a poppy or not , I've seen some Irish people on parades wear a metal pin badge which has both tricolor and union jack (union flag) together , indicating they are supportive and representing people of both nationality's , a small but significant gesture .


    Cool, but this thread is about the poppy?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    gurramok wrote: »
    Will you be remembering the Bloody Sunday soldiers at the commemoration?
    As mentioned you'll find that many hundreds of Irish who march in Remembrance Sunday parade will be marching to remember all Irishmen ''north and south '' who died in conflicts as well as others who died in conflicts around the world ,which is not specific to one period in history but you'll also find that all ex soldiers, regardless of who they are, or where they are from, will not want to be associated with the behavior and history of some regiments and that goes without saying but it doesn't and shouldn't stop them from remembering the bigger and wider history of events involved .

    I'm sure the American ex servicemen who served during world war two wouldn't like to be associated with those involved in Mai Lai massacre in Vietnam or the behavior of some of their soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan ...different events of different generations.
    billybudd wrote: »
    Cool, but this thread is about the poppy?
    Nor is it about the Mau Mau uprising ... like how many threads do you see in AH which go totally off topic ? You can post additional information without doing so just as I have done .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Latchy wrote: »
    As mentioned you'll find that many hundreds of Irish who march in Remembrance Sunday parade will be marching to remember all Irishmen ''north and south '' who died in conflicts as well as others who died in conflicts around the world ,which is not specific to one period in history but you'll also find that all ex soldiers, regardless of who they are, or where they are from, will not want to be associated with the behavior and history of some regiments and that goes without saying but it doesn't and shouldn't stop them from remembering the bigger and wider history of events involved .

    I'm sure the American ex servicemen who served during world war two wouldn't like to be associated with those involved in Mai Lai massacre in Vietnam or the behavior of some of their soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan ...different events of different generations.

    Nor is it about the Mau Mau uprising ... like how many threads do you see in AH which go totally off topic ? You can post additional information without doing so just as I have done .


    Well its not OT because its one of the many reasons why i would not wear a poppy.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    billybudd wrote: »
    Well its not OT because its one of the many reasons why i would not wear a poppy.
    The people who fought on the British side in the Mau Mau Rebellion are represented by people from Kenya who wear poppy's .That is all on that .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Again, look at the associate members of the organisation, see where the members of the groups meet, see who goes to those meetings. ...............


    Lets try this again - you made two very specific serious allegations
    The NGA is a supposed non party affiliated organisation, but it was run by IRA members, so that wasn't true. The vast majority of sales went to Sinn Féin & other organizations.

    Do you have a source/sources to show that (a) the NGA was run by IRA members and (b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations"?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Latchy wrote: »
    The people who fought on the British side in the Mau Mau Rebellion are represented by people from Kenya who wear poppy's .That is all on that .


    Cool, as i said i believe in freedom and just because i dont agree with it does not mean i do not respect people who do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Latchy wrote: »
    As mentioned you'll find that many hundreds of Irish who march in Remembrance Sunday parade will be marching to remember all Irishmen ''north and south '' who died in conflicts as well as others who died in conflicts around the world ,which is not specific to one period in history but you'll also find that all ex soldiers, regardless of who they are, or where they are from, will not want to be associated with the behavior and history of some regiments and that goes without saying but it doesn't and shouldn't stop them from remembering the bigger and wider history of events involved .

    I'm sure the American ex servicemen who served during world war two wouldn't like to be associated with those involved in Mai Lai massacre in Vietnam or the behavior of some of their soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan ...different events of different generations.

    Is this an admission of shame about "regiments" like the Para's? Do you have a problem funding their ex-members welfare?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    people have a free choice to give money to who they want to.....

    many posters on here would like to take that freedom away......

    lives have been taken by all sides in all wars and conflicts.....get over it.....


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    gurramok wrote: »
    Is this an admission of shame about "regiments" like the Para's?
    You would have to ask somebody who served in the Paras that question .
    Do you have a problem funding their ex-members welfare?
    Do you always ask such like questions like your in a court of law or something ?

    I buy a Poppy !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Don't forget the British army readmitted the scum who murdered teenager Peter McBride.

    One of the two left the army after being injured in Afghanistan. And you lot give him money. The BA have consistently defended and covered up murders by their soldiers. And when they are caught, like Mark Wright and James Fisher were, they pat them on the back and keep them in the army, as if they did nothing wrong.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/nov/25/northernireland.richardnortontaylor
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3850831.stm

    Soldiers get chucked out of the British army for smoking weed. Obviously a far worse crime than murdering an Irish teenager.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    GRMA wrote: »
    Don't forget the British army readmitted the scum who murdered teenager Peter McBride.

    One of the two left the army after being injured in Afghanistan. And you lot give him money. The BA have consistently defended and covered up murders by their soldiers. And when they are caught, like Mark Wright and James Fisher were, they pat them on the back and keep them in the army, as if they did nothing wrong.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/nov/25/northernireland.richardnortontaylor
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3850831.stm

    Soldiers get chucked out of the British army for smoking weed. Obviously a far worse crime than murdering an Irish teenager.
    Wheras the brave IRA vent their venom on kids buying mothers day presents in warrington, or aussie tourists in germany!
    Don't engage in whatabouttery unless you want to face some pretty nasty facts about the IRA both old and provo!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Latchy wrote: »
    You would have to ask somebody who served in the Paras that question .

    Do you always ask such like questions like your in a court of law or something ?

    I buy a Poppy !

    I'm asking you as you are involved by your own admission in the Poppy Day events.

    The question is 100% relevant, you buy a poppy every year and have no problem funding the welfare of killers who murdered Irish civilians.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Wheras the brave IRA vent their venom on kids buying mothers day presents in warrington, or aussie tourists in germany!
    Don't engage in whatabouttery unless you want to face some pretty nasty facts about the IRA both old and provo!
    Who's talking about the IRA? What's the poppy to do with them?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Wheras the brave IRA vent their venom on kids buying mothers day presents in warrington, or aussie tourists in germany!
    Don't engage in whatabouttery unless you want to face some pretty nasty facts about the IRA both old and provo!


    well now in fairness since the beginning of its time the BA has made the IRA look like alter boys. I can assure you there is alot more nasty facts regarding the BA than there is about the IRA. Neither is right but both had their orders right?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭edgecutter


    We should prehaps create another symbol for Irish that died. Too many atrocities from the British army to our soil from them for us to plaster on a poppy (bloody Sunday, black and tans)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,476 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Wheras the brave IRA vent their venom on kids buying mothers day presents in warrington, or aussie tourists in germany!
    Don't engage in whatabouttery unless you want to face some pretty nasty facts about the IRA both old and provo!

    Are you putting the IRA up to the status of an Army?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Nodin wrote: »


    Lets try this again - you made two very specific serious allegations


    Do you have a source/sources to show that (a) the NGA was run by IRA members and (b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations"?
    Serious allegations? The truth is beyond some provos & their ilk. Again, since you are being a little obtuse, just look at the associate members & you have your answers. But I believe you already know this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭indioblack


    gurramok wrote: »
    Is this an admission of shame about "regiments" like the Para's? Do you have a problem funding their ex-members welfare?

    It seemed like a reasonable reply to me.
    Why should he feel shame concerning the behaviour of individuals in the military?
    Would you want to be expected to feel personal shame about the activities of some of your countrymen?
    I assume most of the funding of former members of the military comes from the UK taxpayer - are we therefore all guilty of supporting the killers on Bloody Sunday?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    indioblack wrote: »
    It seemed like a reasonable reply to me.
    Why should he feel shame concerning the behaviour of individuals in the military?
    Would you want to be expected to feel personal shame about the activities of some of your countrymen?
    I assume most of the funding of former members of the military comes from the UK taxpayer - are we therefore all guilty of supporting the killers on Bloody Sunday?

    Buying a poppy funds the welfare of ex-members of the BA who murdered Irish civilians. It on the RBL link I showed you.

    No, it wasn't a reasonable reply, he dodged the question. You seriously have to ask why he should feel shame about the behaviour of individuals in the military who represent him? How about murder of a couple hundred Irish unarmed civilians of all ages and gender from 1970 onwards. Unless you are also ok with soldiers murdering civilans :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    gurramok wrote: »
    I'm asking you as you are involved by your own admission in the Poppy Day events.
    Yes by doing so (we) do more for Anglo Irish relations then anything else simply by been there .The great thing about it is seeing people from all these islands mix before and after the event for a chat and sometime take the piss because we don''t all see eye to eye on everything either ( we are not sheep ) .

    Then we all go home .:)


    The question is 100% relevant,
    You're under the illusion that I and millions more like me have to answer such questions .Wrong


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Latchy wrote: »
    Yes by doing so (we) do more for Anglo Irish relations then anything else simply by been there .The great thing about it is seeing people from all these islands mix before and after the event for a chat and sometime take the piss because we don''t all see eye to eye on everything either ( we are not sheep ) .

    Then we all go home .:)

    Do the victims be there?
    Latchy wrote: »
    You're under the illusion that I and millions more like me have to answer such questions .Wrong

    So you don't care about killers killing civilians in your name and funding their welfare by buying a poppy, lovely attitude.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭indioblack


    gurramok wrote: »
    Buying a poppy funds the welfare of ex-members of the BA who murdered Irish civilians. It on the RBL link I showed you.

    No, it wasn't a reasonable reply, he dodged the question. You seriously have to ask why he should feel shame about the behaviour of individuals in the military who represent him? How about murder of a couple hundred Irish unarmed civilians of all ages and gender from 1970 onwards. Unless you are also ok with soldiers murdering civilans :mad:

    I was sitting in a pub in Cork when the murder of the British ambassador came on the tv - my Irish cousin asked for my thoughts and my immediate reply was "you didn't do it".
    If you are right in that he should feel shame then so should anyone who indirectly funds the military through taxation - unlike the Poppy Appeal, though, they have no choice - logically, though, that cannot absolve them of responsibilities.
    I would not expect you to feel shame over the deaths caused by paramilitary groups - as an individual you may or may not feel regret - depending on how you view it.
    You ask if I am in favour of murder - well, take a chance and assume I'm not!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    indioblack wrote: »
    I would not expect you to feel shame over the deaths caused by paramilitary groups - as an individual you may or may not feel regret - depending on how you view it.
    You ask if I am in favour of murder - well, take a chance and assume I'm not!

    What the IRA did was not in my name or the Irish people's name. What the BA did was in the British people's name, they are agents of the British state.

    The poppy has been hijacked to glorify said BA killers who along with never been convicted or murdering civilians in NI, receive funds directly from the buying of the poppy. You have that choice to buy a white poppy instead to dissolve yourself from associating with murderers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Serious allegations? The truth is beyond some provos & their ilk. Again, since you are being a little obtuse, just look at the associate members & you have your answers. But I believe you already know this.


    You seem to be confusing "somebody said on the internet" and hearsay with evidence and proof. You made very serious, very specific allegations. Now if somebody "o theres republicans on the committee" then thats fair enough, because you could be from any walk of life and a number of parties and be a republican. You also alleged criminal misuse of funds.

    So, again, from the top - you stated
    The NGA is a supposed non party affiliated organisation, but it was run by IRA members, so that wasn't true. The vast majority of sales went to Sinn Féin & other organizations.

    Do you have a source/sources to show that (a) the NGA was run by IRA members and (b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations"?

    Either please provide some proof, or be as good as to withdraw the allegations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    There's more than enough reasons on this site not to wear a poppy:

    http://www.britisharmykillings.org.uk/

    Might be a bit of uncomfortable reading for some people here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Nodin wrote: »


    You seem to be confusing "somebody said on the internet" and hearsay with evidence and proof. You made very serious, very specific allegations. Now if somebody "o theres republicans on the committee" then thats fair enough, because you could be from any walk of life and a number of parties and be a republican. You also alleged criminal misuse of funds.

    So, again, from the top - you stated



    Do you have a source/sources to show that (a) the NGA was run by IRA members and (b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations"?

    Either please provide some proof, or be as good as to withdraw the allegations.
    Ok, let's put it another way, prove me 100% incorrect & then we will talk. I have no intention or interest in naming names on an internet forum. You can waffle all day long for all I care. Anyone who has ever been to Bodenstown for the commemoration will tell you who was there, who spoke & exactly how close the NGA are to Sinn fein.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Ok, let's put it another way, prove me 100% incorrect & then we will talk. I have no intention or interest in naming names on an internet forum. You can waffle all day long for all I care. Anyone who has ever been to Bodenstown for the commemoration will tell you who was there, who spoke & exactly how close the NGA are to Sinn fein.
    Doesnt work that way. You make serious allegations like that, you need to back them up. You're accusing a group of lying and funding the IRA etc. You need to provide proof, or withdraw the accusation.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    gurramok So you don't care about killers killing civilians in your name and funding their welfare by buying a poppy, lovely attitude.

    I don't care that people like you are using what the poppy means as something that you pinpoint down to one terrible event in recent history which has been wildly acknowledged by all and sundry, including the military and was I'm aware , still under investigation .

    We can only hope that those who lost there loved ones get the justice they deserve .Everybody everywhere , including many across the political divide and military who wish to see this to .

    Americans ,Canadians ,British Irish and other Europeans, who lost millions in the great wars wear the poppy to remember their great grandfathers and grandfathers . Indioblack pointed out , the british tax payers is funding soldiers ,their family's and former soldiers family's .
    gurramok wrote: »
    Do the victims be there?
    It's a silly question in it's intentions of pin pointing everything in your posts down to bloody sunday but I'll answer it .

    The last person to survive the great war died this year but meeting British ,American ,Canadian ,Dutch Veterans of world war two veterans is very interesting because they share a common bond and horrific experiences, the likes of which many including I never have and hopefully never will .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,218 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Wheras the brave IRA vent their venom on kids buying mothers day presents in warrington, or aussie tourists in germany!
    Don't engage in whatabouttery unless you want to face some pretty nasty facts about the IRA both old and provo!

    You're the one engaging in whataboutary, this is a thread about Irish people commemorating people that have ruthlessly killed Irish kids on Irish streets... meanwhile even the British Government isn't providing for these men properly who are now merely beggars on the street.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Ok, let's put it another way, prove me 100% incorrect & then we will talk. .

    prove a negative? I'm sorry, but thats not how it works.

    You are the one who made the accusation. Its not illogical to presume that you have some source or basis for this, other than hearsay and assumptions/presumptions. Now if thats all you have, then you've no case and should withdraw your accusation. If you have real evidence, then lets see it.
    Lelantos wrote: »
    I have no intention or interest in naming names on an internet forum. You can waffle all day long for all I care. Anyone who has ever been to Bodenstown for the commemoration will tell you who was there, who spoke & exactly how close the NGA are to Sinn fein.

    Again, this is waffle. Nor does it speak to the allegation of misuse of funds. Now again - you stated
    The NGA is a supposed non party affiliated organisation, but it was run by IRA members, so that wasn't true. The vast majority of sales went to Sinn Féin & other organizations.

    Do you have a source/sources to show that (a) the NGA was run by IRA members and (b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations"?

    Either please provide some proof, or be as good as to withdraw the allegations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Latchy wrote: »
    I don't care that people like you are using what the poppy means as something that you pinpoint down to one terrible event in recent history which has been wildly acknowledged by all and sundry, including the military and was I'm aware , still under investigation .

    We can only hope that those who lost there loved ones get the justice they deserve .Everybody everywhere , including many across the political divide and military who wish to see this to .

    Americans ,Canadians ,British Irish and other Europeans, who lost millions in the great wars wear the poppy to remember their great grandfathers and grandfathers . Indioblack pointed out , the british tax payers is funding soldiers ,their family's and former soldiers family's .

    It's a silly question in it's intentions of pin pointing everything in your posts down to bloody sunday but I'll answer it .

    The last person to survive the great war died this year but meeting British ,American ,Canadian ,Dutch Veterans of world war two veterans is very interesting because they share a common bond and horrific experiences, the likes of which many including I never have and hopefully never will .
    What do you say about those two murderers who were welcomed back with open arms by the British army? One is still in service.

    As I said people get thrown out for taking drugs. But not for murdering teenagers.

    They were two who got caught, there are many more who didnt get prosecuted etc and had their crimes covered up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,476 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Ok, let's put it another way, prove me 100% incorrect & then we will talk

    Do you work with the inverse principle for everything?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Latchy wrote: »
    I don't care that people like you are using what the poppy means as something that you pinpoint down to one terrible event in recent history which has been wildly acknowledged by all and sundry, including the military and was I'm aware , still under investigation .
    .............. .

    One event? Unfortunately not.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81571598&postcount=680


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    You're the one engaging in whataboutary, this is a thread about Irish people commemorating people that have ruthlessly killed Irish kids on Irish streets... meanwhile even the British Government isn't providing for these men properly who are now merely beggars on the street.
    No, this is a thread about the the elevent hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month of 1918, and showing respect to all those who died in that conflict, showing respect like those in Enniskillen did in 1987 when a bunch of yellow cowards blew them up!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,476 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    No, this is a thread about the the elevent hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month of 1918, and showing respect to all those who died in that conflict, showing respect like those in Enniskillen did in 1987 when a bunch of yellow cowards blew them up!

    Actually it is not, you might want to read the OP again. It is about Irish people wearing the symbol of the British security forces and the fact that the British Government neglects it's duty to look after their grunts when they get injured.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    GRMA wrote: »
    What do you say about those two murderers who were welcomed back with open arms by the British army? One is still in service.
    I don't approve of that at all that guy should have been kicked out on his ass .Just as in civilian life were you see people get away with light sentences for committing terrible crimes , you would hope that justice would fit the crime .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    GRMA wrote: »
    There's more than enough reasons on this site not to wear a poppy:

    http://www.britisharmykillings.org.uk/

    Might be a bit of uncomfortable reading for some people here.

    There's more than enough reasons here - and uncomfortable too - http://theirishobserver.blogspot.ie/2010/11/serial-killers-murder-of-sir-norman.html and here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporals_killings to keep on stoking anti-nationalist sentiment amongst Unionists but what's the point? Time to move on and, yes, the IRA did act in the name of Republicans even a la carte ones like gurramok.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    No, this is a thread about the the elevent hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month of 1918, and showing respect to all those who died in that conflict, .......


    No, its about the poppy, and the fact thats its funds go to ex-british service personell.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭indioblack


    gurramok wrote: »
    What the IRA did was not in my name or the Irish people's name. What the BA did was in the British people's name, they are agents of the British state.

    The poppy has been hijacked to glorify said BA killers who along with never been convicted or murdering civilians in NI, receive funds directly from the buying of the poppy. You have that choice to buy a white poppy instead to dissolve yourself from associating with murderers.

    Your first paragraph is a good reply - and I take your point.
    I disagree that the poppy is used to glorify killers. As I'm sure you are aware, the vast majority of service personnel killed no-one over that 30 year period - most probably never discharged their weapons in anger.
    A small number were involved in unlawful killings - and murder.
    The chances of these individuals being identified, let alone brought to book, are slim.Some paramilitaries convicted of offences in this time, including murder, have been released - this is not to contradict the point you made in your first paragraph - I merely point out that this can muddy the waters.
    Bloody Sunday, for example, was such a prominent event - yet it took a long time for even a partial resolution.
    Frankly, most people on this side of the water would not take your view regarding the Poppy Appeal - and they might wonder how you can weed out some of those you claim are ineligible to benefit from the proceeds of that appeal.
    If this debate could be held here it might be more constructive - and instructive - for both sides of the argument.
    Having already told you that I don't approve of murder, I'm sure you'll accept that I don't keep their company either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭flanno_7hi


    I would never even contemplate wearing a poppy.

    People can give money to a charity but you don't need to walk around showing everyone do you? People know that wearing one will get up peoples noses in Ireland so what is the reason for wearing one?

    I live in the UK and although you get offered a poppy a lot, no one has ever badgered me to buy one. My gf is english and after explaining my feelings about them she has never asked me to wear/buy one despite the fact her granddad sells them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Nodin wrote: »
    Every major Army in History has behaved as such but that doesn't make it right ,no of course not but the poppy as a symbol means 'Remembrance ' .

    Countrys like China and Japan will have remembrance events ie Nanking / Nagasaki but it's It just tragic and equally sad that the victims of such terrible crimes against humanity don't have something similar on a large scale which represents all peoples across the world .,Remembrance Sunday is not a day for military hype and glory ,on the contary it's plain and simple to remember the falling who gave their life's on the field of battle
    No, this is a thread about the the elevent hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month of 1918, and showing respect to all those who died in that conflict, showing respect like those in Enniskillen did in 1987 when a bunch of yellow cowards blew them up!
    Good point
    Actually it is not, you might want to read the OP again. It is about Irish people wearing the symbol of the British security forces and the fact that the British Government neglects it's duty to look after their grunts when they get injured.
    Equally good point .
    Nodin wrote: »
    No, its about the poppy, and the fact thats its funds go to ex-british service personell.
    flanno_7hi wrote: »
    I would never even contemplate wearing a poppy.

    People can give money to a charity but you don't need to walk around showing everyone do you? People know that wearing one will get up peoples noses in Ireland so what is the reason for wearing one?

    I live in the UK and although you get offered a poppy a lot, no one has ever badgered me to buy one. My gf is english and after explaining my feelings about them she has never asked me to wear/buy one despite the fact her granddad sells them.
    Obiously people on here who won't wear a poppy because of the funding it brings to ex-british service personnel are entitled to feel as they do and that is to be respected while also remembering that those in the main who do , have no agenda of sorts but simply wear one out of respect .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Nodin wrote: »
    No, its about the poppy, and the fact thats its funds go to ex-british service personell.

    The thread is about wearing a poppy, not buying one. There is surely a difference. If you buy one from a charity set up to fund British Army soldiers is that not completely different to wearing one to show respect for those that died in World War 1? I think it is.

    I wouldn't object to supporting the soldiers on the ground anyway. A soldier has little choice in where he is sent. I think most are doing what they think is right. For many of them the army is all they know so why would they think any different to what they are told?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    MagicSean wrote: »
    The thread is about wearing a poppy, not buying one. There is surely a difference. If you buy one from a charity set up to fund British Army soldiers is that not completely different to wearing one to show respect for those that died in World War 1? I think it is.
    To wear one you have to buy it first. The RBL have EXCLUSIVE rights on the poppy trademark and as such are the only charity allowed to sell and profit from it.

    You cannot separate the two, no matter how hard you try to justify it to yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭flanno_7hi


    Latchy wrote: »
    Every major Army in History has behaved as such but that doesn't make it right ,no of course not but the poppy as a symbol means 'Remembrance ' .

    Countrys like China and Japan will have remembrance events ie Nanking / Nagasaki but it's It just tragic and equally sad that the victims of such terrible crimes against humanity don't have something similar on a large scale which represents all peoples across the world .,Remembrance Sunday is not a day for military hype and glory ,on the contary it's plain and simple to remember the falling who gave their life's on the field of battle

    Good point

    Equally good point .



    Obiously people on here who won't wear a poppy because of the funding it brings to ex-british service personnel are entitled to feel as they do and that is to be respected while also remembering that those in the main who do , have no agenda of sorts but simply wear one out of respect .


    Surely respect comes from within and by giving money to said charity you are helping a cause you believe but by wearing the poppy are you not just rubbing a lot of people's noses in something?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    To wear one you have to buy it first. The RBL have EXCLUSIVE rights on the poppy trademark and as such are the only charity allowed to sell and profit from it.

    You don't actually buy a Poppy though, but you can make a contribution if you like. This morning for instance I just emptied all my loose change into the poppy box and took one each for me and the wife. Dunno if the Irish Poppy appeal make a profit though, more likely they will need a top up from the UK poppy appeal fund to meet their obligations in the ROI.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    To wear one you have to buy it first. The RBL have EXCLUSIVE rights on the poppy trademark and as such are the only charity allowed to sell and profit from it.

    You cannot separate the two, no matter how hard you try to justify it to yourself.

    **** Really? I thought the poppy was a flower that grew in the ground or could be purchased from a florist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭drumaneen


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    To wear one you have to buy it [a poppy] first.

    Not strictly true ... The public are asked to make a voluntary donation and a poppy would not be refused if requested ... even for free.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Latchy wrote: »
    I don't care that people like you are using what the poppy means as something that you pinpoint down to one terrible event in recent history which has been wildly acknowledged by all and sundry, including the military and was I'm aware , still under investigation .

    We can only hope that those who lost there loved ones get the justice they deserve .Everybody everywhere , including many across the political divide and military who wish to see this to .

    Americans ,Canadians ,British Irish and other Europeans, who lost millions in the great wars wear the poppy to remember their great grandfathers and grandfathers . Indioblack pointed out , the british tax payers is funding soldiers ,their family's and former soldiers family's .

    It's a silly question in it's intentions of pin pointing everything in your posts down to bloody sunday but I'll answer it .

    The last person to survive the great war died this year but meeting British ,American ,Canadian ,Dutch Veterans of world war two veterans is very interesting because they share a common bond and horrific experiences, the likes of which many including I never have and hopefully never will .

    Thats very well mentioning all sorts of veterans, there is no problem with them from here. The main issue is the poppy and its relevance to NI as its Ireland here. An Iraqi would have an issue with BA's behaviour in Iraq for example.
    Its nice words of reconciliation from you but it took 40years for the British establishment to acknowledge their wrongs on Bloody Sunday, thats only one event, still another 140 killings or so of unarmed civilians to acknowledge their wrongdoing yet. Its a pity they haven't come out and just say we are sorry for their murders and discontinue any benefits to their murderers.
    Del.Monte wrote: »
    There's more than enough reasons here - and uncomfortable too - http://theirishobserver.blogspot.ie/2010/11/serial-killers-murder-of-sir-norman.html and here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporals_killings to keep on stoking anti-nationalist sentiment amongst Unionists but what's the point? Time to move on and, yes, the IRA did act in the name of Republicans even a la carte ones like gurramok.

    Wrong, i'm an Irish nationalist not a republican. My views would be suited to a strong SDLP view. I've voted for all sorts of parties down here including Lab, Ind, FF(donkeys years ago!) and yes SF. My vote depends on a range of issues at the time not just Northern issues.
    indioblack wrote: »
    Your first paragraph is a good reply - and I take your point.
    I disagree that the poppy is used to glorify killers. As I'm sure you are aware, the vast majority of service personnel killed no-one over that 30 year period - most probably never discharged their weapons in anger.
    A small number were involved in unlawful killings - and murder.
    The chances of these individuals being identified, let alone brought to book, are slim.Some paramilitaries convicted of offences in this time, including murder, have been released - this is not to contradict the point you made in your first paragraph - I merely point out that this can muddy the waters.
    Bloody Sunday, for example, was such a prominent event - yet it took a long time for even a partial resolution.
    Frankly, most people on this side of the water would not take your view regarding the Poppy Appeal - and they might wonder how you can weed out some of those you claim are ineligible to benefit from the proceeds of that appeal.
    If this debate could be held here it might be more constructive - and instructive - for both sides of the argument.
    Having already told you that I don't approve of murder, I'm sure you'll accept that I don't keep their company either.

    Good to hear. There is a HET investigating unsolved Troubles killings by all sides. They do know who the majority of soldiers who committed the crimes are, its a matter for the MOD(amongst others) to co-operate fully in each investigation. At stake is brand British Army, to damage that brand is the main issue which is the main barrier to getting justice. Took 40yrs for Bloody Sunday truth come to light, gives you an idea of the roadblocks to justice.


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