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Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

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    #1592
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    This has already been covered on this thread.

    James McClean, like a lot of footballers, has pissed off a few gobby people, just as Sol Campbell did. Playing under 21 for Northern Ireland and changing to the RoI is probably his biggest sin and this is being used as an excuse to throw more hatred at him.

    It is ridiculous and stupid that it happened, but that is the disadvantage of social media, people turn into super ninja keyboard warriors.


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    #1593
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    He shouldnt be forced to wear it. Forcing people and guilt tripping them into wearing just ruins the message and symbolism of the poppy.
    was he forced to wear it NO,it was very much his own choice ,i just think the sunderland management should not have played him on that day knowing his feelings about wearing a poppy,


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    #1594
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    getz wrote: »
    was he forced to wear it NO,it was very much his own choice ,i just think the sunderland management should not have played him on that day knowing his feelings about wearing a poppy,


    ....why shouldn't they have played him?


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    #1595
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....why shouldn't they have played him?
    if you cannot see the reason why ,you have a problem


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    #1596
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    getz wrote: »
    if you cannot see the reason why ,you have a problem
    hide the embarrassing fenian is it?


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    #1597
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    getz wrote: »
    if you cannot see the reason why ,you have a problem


    ...he wasn't wearing the political symbol du jour?


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    #1598
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    GRMA wrote: »
    hide the embarrassing fenian is it?
    your not nodins big ears are you


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    #1599
    Broxi_Bear_Eire
    Registered Users Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Broxi_Bear_Eire


    Of course he should have played it is everyone's right to wear it or not. It would be a bad day if we let these people dictate what can be worn and what cannot


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    #1600
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    getz wrote: »
    your not nodins big ears are you

    Bit odd when you're confronted on your views your tactics seem to be to attack whoever do so, or attempt to switch the focus elsewhere....


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    #1601
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Jesus I should read more carefully.

    I thought this thread said "Why would an Irish person wear a nappy"


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    #1602
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »
    Of course he should have played it is everyone's right to wear it or not. It would be a bad day if we let these people dictate what can be worn and what cannot
    when in rome,that was first said by the catholic bishop of rome when asked why he change the sabath to a sunday.


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    #1603
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    getz wrote: »
    when in rome,that was first said by the catholic bishop of rome when asked why he change the sabath to a sunday.


    ..."when in rome" you should abide by Roman politics? So you accept now its a political symbol....


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    #1604
    Broxi_Bear_Eire
    Registered Users Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Broxi_Bear_Eire


    getz wrote: »
    when in rome,that was first said by the catholic bishop of rome when asked why he change the sabath to a sunday.

    A long long time ago

    Sorry but I no many people who didn't wear poppies and had nothing said to them. This is only happening because of some imbeciles that should know better


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    #1605
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,986 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    getz wrote: »
    what he did was upsetting to many people in the UK
    who cares? theyl get over it.
    they were most lightly told to be upset by the poppy fascists and the daily male anyway, the same people who care so much about (their boys) that they do nothing for them or prioratise watching x factor rather then doing anything to help (their boys)

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #1606
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Unfortunately football has all elements of humanity as its fanbase. Players receive abuse % hatred on Twitter for their skin color or religious beliefs, the non poppy wearing McClean is at the wrong end of these morons wrath at the moment.
    Of course he shouldn't wear a poppy if he does not wish to. Right minded people have no issues with that, but the lunatic fringe in society do.


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    #1607
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Unfortunately football has all elements of humanity as its fanbase. Players receive abuse % hatred on Twitter for their skin color or religious beliefs, the non poppy wearing McClean is at the wrong end of these morons wrath at the moment.
    Of course he shouldn't wear a poppy if he does not wish to. Right minded people have no issues with that, but the lunatic fringe in society do.
    one death threat out of a population of 60 million is not that silly, but as usual those who have a anti-brit agenda will try to make something out of it,a lot worse goes on in ireland,


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    #1608
    Feathers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Feathers


    getz wrote: »
    one death threat out of a population of 60 million is not that silly, but as usual those who have a anti-brit agenda will try to make something out of it,a lot worse goes on in ireland,

    It seems people are responding more strongly to your justification of the death threats than saying the fringe is representative of the whole.
    getz wrote: »
    if you cannot see the reason why ,you have a problem

    The trouble with throw-away lines like that is that if your point isn't clear to begin with, you're making it worse not better.

    Can you break it down for us? I work for a British company — would it be acceptable if they told me if I wasn't going to wear a poppy in work on the 11th, don't bother coming in at all?

    Football is the last place they should be willfully introducing partisan statements


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    #1609
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Feathers wrote: »
    It seems people are responding more strongly to your justification of the death threats than saying the fringe is representative of the whole.



    The trouble with throw-away lines like that is that if your point isn't clear to begin with, you're making it worse not better.

    Can you break it down for us? I work for a British company - would it be acceptable if they told me if I wasn't going to wear a poppy in work on the 11th, don't bother coming in at all?

    Football is the last place they should be willfully ntroducing partisan statements
    no the fringe [one] is not resresentive of he british public,unlike many of the posties would like to think,the queen herself laid a wreath at the republic of irelands garden of rememberance that is dedicated to the people who fought for irish independance against britain,should she not of done ?dispite hundreds of protestors,and bomb threats in britain and ireland ?.all i am saying is that wearing the poppy in its self by people in the UK is about remembering those of our families who died in wars,most of us in the UK who wear it have families who died in WW1 and WW11,as far as death threats by the lunatic fringe fringe [one] ,as far as death threats against sports men and women ireland will beat us hands down,in my memory,mary peters got death theats, as did barry mcguigan,[he even had to carry a gun when in ireland] dennis taylor of all things received a death threat ,as did neil lennon,the lad had good personal reasons not to want to wear a poppy,but he cannot expect many people in the UK to understand that,i personally think that the football clubs were silly in putting poppies on the jerseys as it is a very sad occasion.


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    #1610
    Carlos_Ray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Carlos_Ray


    Nobody should be forced to wear any symbol. It's idiotic.

    Could you imagine the uproar if Ireland decided to do something similar to remember our 1916 heroes? If we forced everybody (including those of a unionist background) to wear a green ribbon when appearing on television or playing sport here?

    It's nonsense, and the treatment of James McClean and those like him, who's only crime is exercising their free-will, makes me doubly determined never to let a poppy touch off my clothing.

    What's next? The public burning effigies of McClean in a similar vein to extremist Muslims protesting over cartoons?

    The British media need to be careful, because they are in danger of turning this charitable cause into something else.

    The vast majority of British people can see the irony of bullying someone into wearing what is supposed to be a symbol of sacrifice made for freedom. Unfortunately, the media and a significant minority are not as enlightened.


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    #1611
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    end of the road wrote: »
    who cares? theyl get over it.
    they were most lightly told to be upset by the poppy fascists and the daily male anyway, the same people who care so much about (their boys) that they do nothing for them or prioratise watching x factor rather then doing anything to help (their boys)
    That's a bad attitude. Why couldn't this footballer wear a poppy? So what if he didn't agree with it? He'll get over it. See your argument doesn't work both ways.


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    #1612
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Carlos_Ray wrote: »
    Nobody should be forced to wear any symbol. It's idiotic.

    Could you imagine the uproar if Ireland decided to do something similar to remember our 1916 heroes? If we forced everybody (including those of a unionist background) to wear a green ribbon when appearing on television or playing sport here?

    It's nonsense, and the treatment of James McClean and those like him, who's only crime is exercising their free-will, makes me doubly determined never to let a poppy touch off my clothing.

    What's next? The public burning effigies of McClean in a similar vein to extremist Muslims protesting over cartoons?

    The British media need to be careful, because they are in danger of turning this charitable cause into something else.

    The vast majority of British people can see the irony of bullying someone into wearing what is supposed to be a symbol of sacrifice made for freedom. Unfortunately, the media and a significant minority are not as enlightened.
    they have the man who did it,he is manchester doorman,who posted his threats on a republican website,


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    #1613
    Carlos_Ray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Carlos_Ray


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That's a bad attitude. Why couldn't this footballer wear a poppy? So what if he didn't agree with it? He'll get over it. See your argument doesn't work both ways.

    I don't think his point does work both ways. He's not advocating forcing the British population to do something that they don't want to do. However, you are advocating forcing a man to wear something that he doesn't want to.

    You are not this footballer. You don't know his reasons for not wearing it, and to be honest it doesn't matter. It's his right not to wear it. He doesn't have to justify it to you or anybody else. Similarly if you choose to wear one, you don't have to justify it either. It's about freedom. Something a lot of people on here seem to have lost track of.


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    #1614
    Carlos_Ray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Carlos_Ray


    getz wrote: »
    they have the man who did it,he is manchester doorman,who posted his threats on a republican website,

    Its not only about the death threat. Its also about the booing he is receiving from the crowds.It's about the way the media reported him "not wearing a poppy." Its a form of intimidation, not only of McClean, but of anybody else who dares to exercise their free will on the issue.

    This type of behaviour is doing the charity no favours whatsoever.


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    #1615
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Carlos_Ray wrote: »

    Its not only about the death threat. Its also about the booing he is receiving from the crowds.It's about the way the media reported him "not wearing a poppy." Its a form of intimidation, not only of McClean, but of anybody else who dares to exercise their free will on the issue.

    This type of behaviour is doing the charity no favours whatsoever.
    McClean gets boo'd by his own fans constantly, nothing to do with the poppy wearing fiasco, they just don't like him


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    #1616
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Carlos_Ray wrote: »
    I don't think his point does work both ways. He's not advocating forcing the British population to do something that they don't want to do. However, you are advocating forcing a man to wear something that he doesn't want to.

    You are not this footballer. You don't know his reasons for not wearing it, and to be honest it doesn't matter. It's his right not to wear it. He doesn't have to justify it to you or anybody else. Similarly if you choose to wear one, you don't have to justify it either. It's about freedom. Something a lot of people on here seem to have lost track of.
    You say it's about freedom but not really. We all have to do things in our job or our professional life that our company or in this case team support that we don't necessarily. This guy was clearly unprofessional in his handling of the situation.


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    #1617
    Carlos_Ray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Carlos_Ray


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You say it's about freedom but not really. We all have to do things in our job or our professional life that our company or in this case team support that we don't necessarily. This guy was clearly unprofessional in his handling of the situation.

    This guy wasn't "clearly" unprofessional. Where in a footballers contract does it say he is sometimes required to wear politically charged symbols and support causes which he may not agree with? That's total nonsense.

    It's all about freedom if you are to listen to any of the remembrance day speeches. Perhaps it's "freedom" to force your own standards and beliefs on others? Yea... how dare McClean not allow himself to be bullied into wearing a poppy. Shame on him.....

    Unbelievable logic.... You're actually arguing against freedom of choice.


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    #1618
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Carlos_Ray wrote: »
    Its not only about the death threat. Its also about the booing he is receiving from the crowds.It's about the way the media reported him "not wearing a poppy." Its a form of intimidation, not only of McClean, but of anybody else who dares to exercise their free will on the issue.

    This type of behaviour is doing the charity no favours whatsoever.
    its football,its news ,its the media, it makes headlines ,that sells newspapers,it will be all forgotten next time he puts the ball in the net,then the usual suspects will search the news for something else that they can have ago at,just for instance i did not wear a poppy this year,but i bought one for the poppy appeal,


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    #1619
    grenache
    Registered Users Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    getz wrote: »
    no the fringe [one] is not resresentive of he british public,unlike many of the posties would like to think,the queen herself laid a wreath at the republic of irelands garden of rememberance that is dedicated to the people who fought for irish independance against britain,should she not of done ?dispite hundreds of protestors,and bomb threats in britain and ireland ?.all i am saying is that wearing the poppy in its self by people in the UK is about remembering those of our families who died in wars,most of us in the UK who wear it have families who died in WW1 and WW11,as far as death threats by the lunatic fringe fringe [one] ,as far as death threats against sports men and women ireland will beat us hands down,in my memory,mary peters got death theats, as did barry mcguigan,[he even had to carry a gun when in ireland] dennis taylor of all things received a death threat ,as did neil lennon,the lad had good personal reasons not to want to wear a poppy,but he cannot expect many people in the UK to understand that,i personally think that the football clubs were silly in putting poppies on the jerseys as it is a very sad occasion.
    Good point. Use paragraphs and full stops though.


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    #1620
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    grenache wrote: »
    Good point. Use paragraphs and full stops though.
    may be of interest,there are 99 irish football players playing top flight in england,i bet most of them are saying what was all that about


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    #1621
    Feathers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Feathers


    getz wrote: »
    no the fringe [one] is not resresentive of he british public,unlike many of the posties would like to think.

    I know - I agreed on that above. What I disagreed with was the idea that he should be dropped for refusing to wear one. He's a footballer, not a charity spokesman & this was a regular match, not a charity exhibition match for the RBL.

    Why should his refusal to voluntarily support a charity affect his career?


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