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Youth Defence must be feeling desperate

24567

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    2,500 is probably about right - less than the 5000 claimed by the organisers.

    BTW, the overwhelming psychological evidence is that
    1. most women do NOT experience post-abortion guilt or other negative consequences, and
    2. the negative consequences for women who are forced to go through the pregnancy against their wishes are enormous for both mother and child.

    I'll try to look for the actual studies if anyone is interested, but the Psychological Society of Ireland did a review of the evidence some years ago and these were their findings.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    I've a few comments on their page. They deleted one, which was so mundane I'm a bit confused as to why they'd bother.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,720 ✭✭✭✭King Mob




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    King Mob wrote: »

    Good old IT, if they were still on D'Olier St, they could have looked out the window! :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    Politics was good, a hundred years ago. Today, politicians have no ability to solve any problems because they're not students of behavior, they're not students of agriculture, oceanography, they know nothing about the factors that operate the world. So, they say things that people like to hear, and that gets them elected. Now scientists, on the other hand, are not concerned with public approval. What they do, even if everybody on Earth believed the Earth was flat, they would say, "You're wrong. This is the evidence we have to support the fact that the Earth is round." But they don't say, "It's a little round and a little flat." That's politicians.

    Earth 2.0 - Coming soon

    Jacque Fresco


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Lantus wrote: »
    Politics was good, a hundred years ago.
    Today, politicians have no ability to solve any problems because they're not students of behavior, they're not students of agriculture, oceanography, they know nothing about the factors that operate the world. So, they say things that people like to hear, and that gets them elected. Now scientists, on the other hand, are not concerned with public approval. What they do, even if everybody on Earth believed the Earth was flat, they would say, "You're wrong. This is the evidence we have to support the fact that the Earth is round." But they don't say, "It's a little round and a little flat." That's politicians.

    Earth 2.0 - Coming soon

    Jacque Fresco

    And has that to do with the topic?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Lantus wrote: »
    Politics was good, a hundred years ago.
    Sounds like Mr Fresco may not have talked to any of the soldiers who fought in the First World War which, coincidentally, started the same year he was born.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    jhegarty wrote: »
    You calling it desperate lies because they are quoting the Garda figures ? :confused:


    Is it that they are miss quoting the Guards ?

    YES, they misquoted the Gardai. The figures they actually gave were between 1,500 and 3,000. Can't be bothered directing you to a link for that. Look at the bleedin pictures and then tell me it's not a lie.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,441 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    Obliq wrote: »
    YES, they misquoted the Gardai. The figures they actually gave were between 1,500 and 3,000. Can't be bothered directing you to a link for that. Look at the bleedin pictures and then tell me it's not a lie.

    The Gardai changed the figures later. See the quote from the Irish Times on the first page.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    Thousands for sure. I'd say under 2,500 though, looking at the film. Still a good turnout in a country for an opinion that has been so jaundiced by the EXTREME lack of support at government level and other public representation facilities.
    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/09/29/how-many-were-at-the-march-for-choice/
    Disgusted is not the word for how I feel about RTE and the Irish Times today. Any march this size should be reported (fairly, btw) on, and we have all be severely let down, particularly by RTE, who didn't air one bit of the march. I am due to pay their licence fee this week. Feel like taking THEM to court over it - if they won't represent my view in the slightest....what use are they exactly?
    And The Indo. Fullscreen capture 30092012 124055.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    Obliq wrote: »
    Thousands for sure. I'd say under 2,500 though, looking at the film. Still a good turnout in a country for an opinion that has been so jaundiced by the EXTREME lack of support at government level and other public representation facilities.
    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/09/29/how-many-were-at-the-march-for-choice/
    Disgusted is not the word for how I feel about RTE and the Irish Times today. Any march this size should be reported (fairly, btw) on, and we have all be severely let down, particularly by RTE, who didn't air one bit of the march. I am due to pay their licence fee this week. Feel like taking THEM to court over it - if they won't represent my view in the slightest....what use are they exactly?
    And The Indo. Fullscreen capture 30092012 124055.jpg

    The Sindo do have a piece on it. A paragraph long, buried in the "other news" section.

    Edit: Link

    Not even any mention of numbers, just "A pro-CHOICE group took to the streets of Dublin yesterday in a protest march."

    (I have no idea why "choice" is in all caps…)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    The Sindo do have a piece on it. A paragraph long, buried in the "other news" section.

    Edit: Link

    Not even any mention of numbers, just "A pro-CHOICE group took to the streets of Dublin yesterday in a protest march."

    (I have no idea why "choice" is in all caps…)

    Cheers, yeah I saw that. My screenshot shows the feedback from the "Unlike Youth Defence, I trust women to decide their lives for themselves" facebook page, highlighting what DID make the Indo homepage online. Muslims marching on Google offices IS newsworthy I'm sure, but so is the Pro-choice march. I remain disgusted.

    Tomorrow morning, bright and early, I'm getting onto the BAI about it. "Members of the public may also complain to the Compliance Committee of the BAI if in their opinion there has been a breach of the Code of Programme Standards, the General Advertising Code and the Code of Children's Advertising. The codes and
    information on how to complain are available on the BAI website (www.bai.ie)or from
    the following addressclick here.
    The Broadcasting Complaints Commission is administered by The Broadcasting
    Commission of Ireland. The Commission's address is:
    Broadcasting Complaints Commission,
    2-5 Warrington Place,
    Dublin 2.
    Telephone: (01) 644 1200 "

    The only part of the code that I can see as having been breached (since it WASN'T AIRED) is misuse of "(c) anything which may reasonably be regarded as causing harm or offence, or as likely to promote, or incite to, crime or as tending to undermine the authority of the State, is not broadcast " under the Code of Practice for the Handling of Complaints. I'm full sure they'll wriggle out of it, or indeed, dismiss me totally, but APPARENTLY, "RTÉ exists to provide quality public service programmes on radio and television. The
    public pays a licence fee to receive these services. The standards we set for ourselves can be found in our RTÉ's Programme Standards and Guidelines 2008 "


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    http://www.bai.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Broadcasting-Act-2009.pdfBroadcasters — Duties, Codes and Rules
    39.—(1) Every broadcaster shall ensure that—
    (a) all news broadcast by the broadcaster is reported and
    presented in an objective and impartial manner and without any expression of the broadcaster’s own views,
    (b) the broadcast treatment of current affairs, including
    matters which are either of public controversy or the subject of current public debate, is fair to all interests concerned and that the broadcast matter is presented in an objective and impartial manner and without any
    expression of his or her own views, except that should it
    prove impracticable in relation to a single broadcast to
    apply this paragraph, two or more related broadcasts may
    be considered as a whole, if the broadcasts are transmitted within a reasonable period of each other

    Anybody know anything about the BAI? If it wasn't broadcast (the basis for my complaint), I assume I can't say it's unfair?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    Youth Defence have deleted all my comments and blocked me from their facebook page, despite the fact that all I did was reply to their post quoting the IT article and say that the figures had been updated. I understand why they wouldn't want to entertain people mocking pro-lifers, but why just blanket delete anything resembling a different opinion? It's pretty sad, tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    FouxDaFaFa wrote: »
    It's all fun and games until you go onto Youth Defence's page and see that one of your friends is a fan...

    I just did exactly that. There's always one....
    FouxDaFaFa wrote: »
    Youth Defence have deleted all my comments and blocked me from their facebook page, despite the fact that all I did was reply to their post quoting the IT article and say that the figures had been updated. I understand why they wouldn't want to entertain people mocking pro-lifers, but why just blanket delete anything resembling a different opinion? It's pretty sad, tbh.

    Because they are trying to portray that their opinion is the majority one and do their best to hide the fact that there is opposition. Hence the photo in their page of a few people gathering before the march in an attempt to make it look significantly smaller.

    I must say I am quite disappointed with the media's lack of coverage for the march. The Indo's coverage was paltry to say the least. I seem to recall them giving a two page spread to a pro-life protest of some description not long ago.

    I saw this while on YD's facebook page:
    384562_10151251542792363_1064724434_n.jpg
    Damn them blocking the window!!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    Galvasean wrote: »
    I must say I am quite disappointed with the media's lack of coverage for the march. The Indo's coverage was paltry to say the least. I seem to recall them giving a two page spread to a pro-life protest of some description not long ago.

    It's shameful and depressing. I nearly cried last night and this morning on realising there was no coverage at all. My English boyfriend actually couldn't believe it, and got up to check b4 I did so he might have some good news for me?....no chance.

    He wondered why so few turned up to march, for this as well as other issues such as the banking crisis. I explained that if you consider that England has 56 million people and 150,000 people approx turned out for the poll tax marches. I don't do maths but for a country of 4,000,000 people, 2,500 approx seems like a similar percentage (someone else do the math?). There will always only be a small percentage who will ACTUALLY turn up to protest/march in support of, but I think we held our own eh?

    Grrrrr:mad: SO ****ING MAD. The powers that be getting my licence fee are getting an earful off of me tomorrow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    They've brought those posters to Galway?

    Oh, now I'm pissed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    FouxDaFaFa wrote: »
    They've brought those posters to Galway?

    Oh, now I'm pissed.

    Ha! Why, was it fine till you could see it?! Not trying to get yer back up, but this is ongoing, all over the country, and you're only pissed NOW??? https://www.facebook.com/groups/106559509488937/ Galway Pro-Choice have been discussing this for a while now - not much we can do but complain to bus eireann.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    You can continue to mock them. Mockery is a wonderful tool against the ridiculous and the self-righteous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    Sarky wrote: »
    You can continue to mock them. Mockery is a wonderful tool against the ridiculous and the self-righteous.

    Yes, but right now I feel more like breaking heads than mocking. What is wrong with us people that we can take more of this ****e? :confused:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    Obliq wrote: »
    Ha! Why, was it fine till you could see it?! Not trying to get yer back up, but this is ongoing, all over the country, and you're only pissed NOW???
    No, of course not. I was making a "not in my backyard" style joke. But it is extra annoying to see it right in front of me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Obliq wrote: »
    Yes, but right now I feel more like breaking heads than mocking. What is wrong with us people that we can take more of this ****e? :confused:

    Thats the baby-killer in ye, wanting to get out.

    It's a well known fact that the yearly seal clubbing up in Canada is done by well disguised frustated pro-choice Irish women who need to let out their killin urges.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Obliq wrote: »
    It's shameful and depressing. I nearly cried last night and this morning on realising there was no coverage at all.

    I'm curious as to why the media here seem afraid to cover the pro-choice side. Are they afraid they might upset a few aul wans or something? Or are they in cahoots with YD?
    Heck, the anti-Youth defense protest at the Dail in July got no coverage at all either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭lynchieboy


    What was the idea of bringing babies in buggies to a pro abortion rally? seems a bit strange to me, I cant make the link?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    lynchieboy wrote: »
    What was the idea of bringing babies in buggies to a pro abortion rally? seems a bit strange to me, I cant make the link?

    Couldn't find a sitter I'd imagine.

    Pro-choice =/= anti babies in general.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    Galvasean wrote: »
    I'm curious as to why the media here seem afraid to cover the pro-choice side. Are they afraid they might upset a few aul wans or something? Or are they in cahoots with YD?
    Heck, the anti-Youth defense protest at the Dail in July got no coverage at all either.

    I don't know Galvasean. If there was a 'miserable' smiley, I'd use it. I'm getting onto RTE tomorrow to get an explanation (and because I don't expect any answer, probably the BAI as well). I'll put it to Geoff at http://geoffsshorts.blogspot.ie/ - he's the man for the job :)

    It's my theory that it's not newsworthy while there's no danger of government actually doing any legislating for our rights. Therefore they won't rock the boat. Coverage of the pro-YD side is not controversial in that nobody will go crazy over it. And that includes us. I imagine we are too civilised to make an impact.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    lynchieboy wrote: »
    What was the idea of bringing babies in buggies to a pro abortion rally? seems a bit strange to me, I cant make the link?
    You mean it's NOT a baby killing protest? Where I can bring my unwanted babies to be killed for free, or to be exchanged for the iPhone 5?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    lynchieboy wrote: »
    What was the idea of bringing babies in buggies to a pro abortion rally? seems a bit strange to me, I cant make the link?

    What's strange? I'm out and out pro-choice and I'd have brought my kids if I hadn't the childcare. My eldest boy (14) said to me the other day when I told him he'd be at his Dad's for sure on Saturday cos I was going to the March for Choice - " I only found out in school recently that there's no abortion in Ireland, WTF??". It hadn't come up before as part of our 'sex education talks', where he goes "Aw, MUM, I KNOW ALREADY", so I can't be said to have influenced him on being pro-choice. To him, as a child of the 2000's, it stands TO REASON that women should have the right to decide on having a child or not. And he got really mad when I said I've been marching for this since I was his age.
    People pass on their beliefs/ideals/learning to their children. Look at Catholic people putting their children through first holy communion and wonder is it strange (from an objective viewpoint) that their children are told they are sinners when they're 8yrs old.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    You mean it's NOT a baby killing protest? Where I can bring my unwanted babies to be killed for free, or to be exchanged for the iPhone 5?

    I was on a train today and overheard a woman say to her offspring, "if you don't shut up you're going in the bold bin!"
    Perhaps we can avail of said bin?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Galvasean wrote: »
    [...] overheard a woman [...] "if you don't shut up you're going in the bold bin!"
    Must be the non-religious version of the sin bin.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    lynchieboy wrote: »
    What was the idea of bringing babies in buggies to a pro abortion rally? seems a bit strange to me, I cant make the link?

    who says parents can't be pro-choice? why do people assume that anyone pro-choice never wants or already has kids?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    krudler wrote: »
    who says parents can't be pro-choice? why do people assume that anyone pro-choice never wants or already has kids?

    Coz everyone pro-choice is a proto-baby murderer of course.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    It is rather odd that women of the "pro-life" persuasion seem the most ardent believers in the notion that other women will rush to the opportunity to 'kill de babiez' en masse. Would it be part of the same phenomena that sees the most vociferous voices against the young women seen on "Embarrassing Irish Nightlife photos" come from their own gender? (Which is a depressing phenomena, in this day and age).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    I think it's from the same troubling corner of the human condition as "If we didn't have the Ten Commandments, what would be out there to stop me murdering literally everyone!??!"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    I think it's from the same troubling corner of the human condition as "If we didn't have the Ten Commandments, what would be out there to stop me murdering literally everyone!??!"

    Other than the fact that I'm just getting too old and hefty to catch the bastards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    Nodin wrote: »
    Other than the fact that I'm just getting too old and hefty to catch the bastards.

    Buy the new iPhone and advertise on Adverts for €300, collection only. They'll come to you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    Obliq wrote: »
    Thousands for sure. I'd say under 2,500 though, looking at the film. Still a good turnout in a country for an opinion that has been so jaundiced by the EXTREME lack of support at government level and other public representation facilities.

    Here's a link to a video of most of the march passing the O'Connell Monument at the bottom of O'Connell St.


    (To whoever put the red sashes on the angels there - Congratulations! They looked brilliant!)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    That's ok RTE, we'll do your job for you.......;)

    557862_10151098155159226_125155030_n.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,477 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Obliq wrote: »
    That's ok RTE, we'll do your job for you.......;)

    557862_10151098155159226_125155030_n.jpg

    "Unfortunately no one from RTE was there to report due to the controversial nature of this issue."

    What the c*nting f*ck kind of bullsh*t nonsense is that? Is that real? I actually feel like complaining to them about that. That's ridiculous.

    Fine, it's controversial. But no reporter would be somehow forced to join the protest. Whether you agree with what happened or not, your job is to report the news. Not sending someone out to report on it simply because it's "controversial" is effectively silencing the debate. What happens if there was ever a referendum on the issue? Not report on it because it's "controversial"?

    Smells like anti-abortion bias to me.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,314 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Penn wrote: »
    Is that real?
    Eh, no. I think Obliq made it themselves.
    Penn wrote: »
    Smells like anti-abortion bias to me.
    About RTE not touching the issue with a bargepole? Yes, yes it does.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,477 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    the_syco wrote: »
    Eh, no. I think Obliq made it themselves.

    Urge to kill... fading... fading... fading - rising! Fading... fading... gone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    Penn wrote: »
    "Unfortunately no one from RTE was there to report due to the controversial nature of this issue."

    What the c*nting f*ck kind of bullsh*t nonsense is that? Is that real? I actually feel like complaining to them about that. That's ridiculous.

    Fine, it's controversial. But no reporter would be somehow forced to join the protest. Whether you agree with what happened or not, your job is to report the news. Not sending someone out to report on it simply because it's "controversial" is effectively silencing the debate. What happens if there was ever a referendum on the issue? Not report on it because it's "controversial"?

    Smells like anti-abortion bias to me.

    Bull**** nonsense is right......but it IS a spoof, and pretty effective eh? Many people thinking it's for real online so far. RTE shot themselves in the foot by not covering the march at all, in spite of having a heads-up since the thursday before. The march was to heighten awareness about the legislation we are overdue and to stand in solidarity with the 12 women every day who travel to England for abortions and are shamed at home. This image has been generating more awareness in the last day, than RTE did.

    I say shame on RTE for WHATEVER THE **** reason they didn't show up or even report it, when they reported the last pro-life march (which was of a similar size)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    Penn wrote: »
    Urge to kill... fading... fading... fading - rising! Fading... fading... gone.

    Urge to kill still present and correct here, but restricted to whoever took the decision not to cover this. :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    Obliq wrote: »
    Urge to kill still present and correct here, but restricted to whoever took the decision not to cover this. :mad:

    Now, now, we're atheists, we don't kill anyone. We write letters to the newspapers (irrate ones, sometimes), and post on forums like this one, and sign petitions.

    What would religious history be like if they'd just organised petitions?

    -Saladin, the Christians have presented us with three million signatures to vacate Jerusalem!
    -May Allah bespoil their breeches! We must act quick, summon my scribes!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    pauldla wrote: »
    Now, now, we're atheists, we don't kill anyone. We write letters to the newspapers (irrate ones, sometimes), and post on forums like this one, and sign petitions.

    What would religious history be like if they'd just organised petitions?

    -Saladin, the Christians have presented us with three million signatures to vacate Jerusalem!
    -May Allah bespoil their breeches! We must act quick, summon my scribes!

    :D:D Ah yes, we don't kill anyone, but I'm allowed a little URGE to kill every now and then ("kill" to the same degree as when I say "I'll kill ya, ya little miscreant freeloader" to one of the childer)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Obliq wrote: »
    :D:D Ah yes, we don't kill anyone, but I'm allowed a little URGE to kill every now and then ("kill" to the same degree as when I say "I'll kill ya, ya little miscreant freeloader" to one of the childer)

    We also use terms like 'miscreant freeloader' to children. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    We also use terms like 'miscreant freeloader' to children. :D

    Oh oops, is that a bad thing?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Obliq wrote: »
    Oh oops, is that a bad thing?

    Sounds exactly like the kind of thing I'd say to a child so...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭Irishchick


    xperi wrote: »
    what about a ectopic pregancy , if thats not terminated then the mothers life is in danger, or a baby thats died in the womb are they not grounds for a termination ?

    The treatment for ectopic pregnancy is a laparoscopy, not an abortion.

    People are being scared into thinking that if they have an ectopic pregnancy that they will have to fly to England to be treated which is just not true


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    Irishchick wrote: »
    The treatment for ectopic pregnancy is a laparoscopy, not an abortion.

    People are being scared into thinking that if they have an ectopic pregnancy that they will have to fly to England to be treated which is just not true

    No, not if they're pro-choice and therefore better informed on what can and can't happen here, they're not scared into thinking they have to go to England with an ectopic pregnancy. Except we call it "abortion", because it is IN FACT killing the embryo by removing it from the woman. The pro-birth agenda does not like to call this an abortion, but calls it a "medical procedure" (abortion is a medical procedure), lest the word abortion sully their untarnished and beautiful minds.


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