Youth Defence must be feeling desperate

NotForResale

Compare and contrast :rolleyes:




My apologies, they have revised their figures

March4choice page:
Ignore the desperate lies being tweeted by panicky pro-lifers - this really is a HUGE turnout. #march4choice

Few more than 800 there lads I'd say

NotForResale

bluewolf wrote: »

March4choice page:
Ignore the desperate lies being tweeted by panicky pro-lifers - this really is a HUGE turnout. #march4choice

Few more than 800 there lads I'd say

They revised it

they r count gud

I had a look on their FB page, pretty sad

The Mad Hatter

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it here too: this really couldn't have happened without Youth Defence. If YD hadn't put up those obnoxious, misleading, emotionally manipulative posters, this movement would have been without its catalyst.

NotForResale

bluewolf wrote: »

they r count gud

I had a look on their FB page, pretty sad

they seem to be having a little panic now, a lot of them are saying "but the rally for life is still bigger!" :pac:

rockclover1

So what if the rally for life was bigger,what did they do a headcount for both on the days they were dated?

Doubful.

Im not a christian but would not be pro abortion or soley anti abortion,but i think abortion for all is a dreadful idea btw..abortion for all??abortion for every little mistake,although i do agree with abortion for lets say those who bear a life that is somewhat retarded or incompatible with life.But on abortion for all,i just completely disagree with it.

If youre old enough to have sex,you should be old enough to face the responsibility that comes with that.

wonderfulname

rockclover1 wrote: »

i do agree with abortion for lets say those who bear a life that is somewhat retarded or incompatible with life.

So basically you see mentally disabled people as less human. Noice.

rockclover1

rockclover1 wrote: »

So what if the rally for life was bigger,what did they do a headcount for both on the days they were dated?

Doubful.

Im not a christian but would not be pro abortion or soley anti abortion,but i think abortion for all is a dreadful idea btw..abortion for all??abortion for every little mistake,although i do agree with abortion for lets say those who bear a life that is somewhat retarded or incompatible with life.But on abortion for all,i just completely disagree with it.

If youre old enough to have sex,you should be old enough to face the responsibility that comes with that.

christmas2012, it's nice to have you and your extremely convoluted views back.

P.S. Youth Defence's Facebook page makes for some great reading; watching them fail to rationalise the fact that they had inferior numbers to an opposing march is, frankly, brilliant.

xperi

what about a ectopic pregancy , if thats not terminated then the mothers life is in danger, or a baby thats died in the womb are they not grounds for a termination ?

VictorRomeo

rockclover1 wrote: »

If youre old enough to have sex,you should be old enough to face the responsibility that comes with that.

So if you're old enough - or not as the case my be - to get raped, you also must 'woman up' and face the 'responsibility that comes with that?'

You see what happend there? This is the kind of thing you can expect when you make clumsy and stupid generalisations about a very complex series of issues.

Facing responsibility for some people includes abortion.

rockclover1

Wonderfulname,NO.I dont see them as less human,but they are harder work than lets say having a regular baby,if i suspected i had a child that was somewhat retarded,i would abort mission,sorry to say if that hurts your feelings.But it is just what i would do,and i have the freedom of choice to hop on a plane,(not telling irish authorities what im up to)and get it over and done with.With our without my 'partner',i would do it in a second,no afterthoughts about it,i wouldnt even flinch about it.The aftermath of having an abortion would be difficult-and it is a painful procedure,but yes i would do it in a second and have no regrets about it..

I know a woman with a disabled child,now teenager,she is extremely difficult,she has autism and some other intellectual disablity,she also has cerebal palsy.And she is very challenging curses,shouts,wants to be indulged all the time by parent,and it is hard on her,even her husband of 15 years walked out on her recently,there is only so much grinning and bearing you can do,before it gets to you,she is honest about it,she wished she never had that child,and i think it is a far more honest and unprenetious reaction to have.Obviously she would never say it to her child,but when she gets old,she wonders how things will go,i mean that child can never never reproduce and have healthy offspring or get married etc..

She will never have grandchildren,and when she gets old and infirm she will have to give her away,and she cannot afford it..

Its even more of a burden for her than lets say having a 'regular child.'


In response to bluewolf:

Facing responsibility for some people includes abortion.

abortion is seen as a way out,little do girls realise they can get stung by it,its a very upsetting experience,there is no aftercare for abortion when you get on that plane to england,there is nothing organised for the girl who gets it,and its not a pain free or risk free procedure.

rockclover1

If youre old enough to have sex,you should be old enough to face the responsibility that comes with that.

Please read what i said;i stated if you are old enough to have sex(by sex i mean consensual sex),you should be old enough to face the consequences

So if you're old enough - or not as the case my be - to get raped, you also must 'woman up' and face the 'responsibility that comes with that?'

Please.Stop putting words i never said in my mouth.Refrain from it.

efb

Irish Times say low turnout
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0929/breaking25.html

ess than 1,000 people joined the 'March for Choice' in Dublin this afternoon in what had been billed as the first major mobilisation of pro-choice activists ahead of the publication of a major report examining how the Government should deal with the abortion issue.

Organisers had predicted that several thousand people would gather for the march which left the Spire in O’Connell Street at 2pm ahead of a gathering at Merrion Square.

However, Garda said that closer to 500 people had showed up for the event. .

Bad grammar AND bad reporting

NotForResale

efb wrote: »

Irish Times say low turnout
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0929/breaking25.html

500? they must have just taken some tweet from some of the "prolifers" online and ran with it.

strobe

rockclover1 wrote: »

Please read what i said;i stated if you are old enough to have sex(by sex i mean consensual sex),you should be old enough to face the consequences

Yes, and as Bluewolf rightfully pointed out, having an abortion is a consequence some people face, just not the consequence you personally want them to face.

But this whole 'you have to face the consequences of your actions' thing is bollox anyway, it's like saying 'if you have sex and contract Chlamydia you should not be able to avail of the medical treatment for that, as well... if you're old enough to have sex you're old enough to face the consequences'.

rockclover1

it's like saying 'if you have sex and contract Chlamydia you should not be able to avail of the medical treatment for that, as well... if you're old enough to have sex you're old enough to face the consequences'.

Well then that person obviously isnt practicing safe sex,ie no fluid exchange sex,its their choice their risk unfortunately for them.Im not saying that people should not take anti std medication,im not advocating that at all.

strobe

rockclover1 wrote: »

Well then that person obviously isnt practicing safe sex,ie no fluid exchange sex,its their choice their risk unfortunately for them.Im not saying that people should not take anti std medication,im not advocating that at all.

No it's not clear the person wasn't practicing safe sex, as with the prevention of pregnancy, the prevention of STD's through the use of a condom is not 100% effective.

I know you're not actually advocating people should not take anti-std medication, that's the whole point... your viewpoint is inconsistent, and as such, you should probably re-examine it.

krudler

xperi wrote: »

what about a ectopic pregancy , if thats not terminated then the mothers life is in danger, or a baby thats died in the womb are they not grounds for a termination ?

YD claim ectopic pregnancy treatments aren't abortions. So that's that cleared up.

rockclover1

Its not inconsistent,i maintan if you are old enough to have sex,you should be old enough and mature enough to face the consequences be it if you did not use a condom,stds can be a risk,if you did not take the pill,pregnancy can be a risk.If you cannot see that or agree these are the risks you are taking then you are not mature enough to have sex.Life isnt consequence free.

Those are risk factors you have to be aware of before having sex,whether you know this person or not.

Sex is not 100% safe but condoms are effective and if used properly can be a good barrier to pregnancy and stds alone.

Just because you argue condoms arent 100% doesnt mean people should not use them,they can be gotten free at any family planning clinic or red ribbon aids house.

They should be considered regardless.

Sulla Felix

rockclover1 wrote: »

Its not inconsistent,i maintan if you are old enough to have sex,you should be old enough and mature enough to face the consequences be it if you did not use a condom,stds can be a risk,if you did not take the pill,pregnancy can be a risk.If you cannot see that or agree these are the risks you are taking then you are not mature enough to have sex.Life isnt consequence free.

Those are risk factors you have to be aware of before having sex,whether you know this person or not.

Sex is not 100% safe but condoms are effective and if used properly can be a good barrier to pregnancy and stds alone.

Just because you argue condoms arent 100% doesnt mean people should not use them,they can be gotten free at any family planning clinic or red ribbon aids house.

They should be considered regardless.

One of the quite well known consequences is that your child may be born with a severe disability.

I don't understand why thou allow one and not the other.

krudler

rockclover1 wrote: »

So what if the rally for life was bigger,what did they do a headcount for both on the days they were dated?

Doubful.

Im not a christian but would not be pro abortion or soley anti abortion,but i think abortion for all is a dreadful idea btw..abortion for all??abortion for every little mistake,although i do agree with abortion for lets say those who bear a life that is somewhat retarded or incompatible with life.But on abortion for all,i just completely disagree with it.

If youre old enough to have sex,you should be old enough to face the responsibility that comes with that.

no abortions, except for retarded kids, gotcha.

jhegarty

bluewolf wrote: »

March4choice page:
Ignore the desperate lies being tweeted by panicky pro-lifers - this really is a HUGE turnout. #march4choice

Few more than 800 there lads I'd say

You calling it desperate lies because they are quoting the Garda figures ?


Is it that they are miss quoting the Guards ?

jill_valentine

rockclover1 wrote: »

Its not inconsistent,i maintan if you are old enough to have sex,you should be old enough and mature enough to face the consequences be it if you did not use a condom,stds can be a risk,if you did not take the pill,pregnancy can be a risk.If you cannot see that or agree these are the risks you are taking then you are not mature enough to have sex.Life isnt consequence free.

ie. if a girl gets pregnant, she should have to have the baby to teach her a lesson. That'll show 'er.

rockclover1

no abortions, except for retarded kids, gotcha.

Having a retarded child is a lot of care and can give you a near nervous breakdown,imagine what a mother and father has to go through to learn the grave news that their child may have some form of disability?Its devastating,they know that child will NEVER,never grow up and have a 'regular' life,never be able to get a job,or have a healthy child.They will never be grandparents,they will always have to worry about saving extra money for extra special needs for child care costs and also for care for their later years,even teen and young adult life they will have special needs.It can break up marragies polarise siblings and do so much damage,thats the reality of it.And anybody that says its just like bringing up a regular child is delusional or decidedly ignorant.

rockclover1

ie. if a girl gets pregnant, she should have to have the baby to teach her a lesson. That'll show 'er.

Stop putting words in my mouth i never said,thought or expressed in any way.

super_furry

That 500 figure simply isn't true. Don't really have an axe to grind either way but I was coming through town on my way into work and waiting for a bus on Nassau Street as the march passed. It took five minutes for it to pass me totally and I'd be pretty sure there was at least 3,500 and closer to 4,000 people there.

jill_valentine

rockclover1 wrote: »

Stop putting words in my mouth i never said,thought or expressed in any way.

That's exactly the spirit of your thought process - girls should have avoidable consequences imposed on them, because life is not consequence free.

rockclover1

That's exactly the spirit of your thought process - girls should have avoidable consequences imposed on them, because life is not consequence free.

Are you trying to imply im some sort of mysoginist?Because i can tell you im not.

If you dodge consequences boy or girl (for that matter) you are going to do yourself more damage in the long run,eventually it will catch up with you,and you will have to learn about consequences,lets just say if somebody keeps getting abortions or doesnt practice safe sex a lot,a consequence such as stds could rear its ugly head.

Or if you try to get pregnant in later life you might find you cant,and you might regret those abortions.

Its not an easy procedure to go through either,and i think it is very irresponsible to advocate it as the way,or make it synonymous with womens rights,its not synonymous with womens rights,bodily integrity starts with one life,not with two,i will say there are certain circumstances i would happily abort..As having a child with special needs is more costly than the 'average' child which would be costly also.

Im not saying my views are flawless there are exceptions that i would personally choose abortion,ie if it was a danger to my life,or retarded.

loveisdivine

Yeah let's force a woman to have a child she doesn't want. I'm sure that kid will have a great life.

Whatever happens I'm just thankful there are other countries I can go to if I ever need an abortion.

NotForResale

rockclover1 wrote: »

If you dodge consequences boy or girl (for that matter) you are going to do yourself more damage in the long run,eventually it will catch up with you,and you will have to learn about consequences,lets just say if somebody keeps getting abortions or doesnt practice safe sex a lot,a consequence such as stds could rear its ugly head.

what does that have to do with it? do you think we should not deny this choice to people because you think most of them will be abusing it?

rockclover1

People will abuse choice,and will use it for every little mistake,which is wrong.If everyone tommorrow decided to have an abortion in ireland there would be no future irish for example.I dont think a small island like ireland is ready for abortion.In the UK there is a huge population,so abortion doesnt put a dent in the people generated economy.

NotForResale

rockclover1 wrote: »

If everyone tommorrow decided to have an abortion in ireland there would be no future irish for example.I dont think a small island like ireland is ready for abortion.In the UK there is a huge population,so abortion doesnt put a dent in the people generated economy.

You should have qualified with us at the start of this debate that you are a complete idiot so we could be aware of we where dealing with. Just because someone has an abortion doesn't mean they wont have children later on in life.

28064212

rockclover1 wrote: »

People will abuse choice,and will use it for every little mistake,which is wrong.If everyone tommorrow decided to have an abortion in ireland there would be no future irish for example.I dont think a small island like ireland is ready for abortion.In the UK there is a huge population,so abortion doesnt put a dent in the people generated economy.

Same old nonsense arguments, eh christmas? Good to see you learned from your mistakes. I'm curious, do you understand how percentages work?

Malari

Seriously Rockclover your arguments are very underdeveloped. If everyone decided to have an abortion?! What if everyone decided to have a baby tomorrow? How would our economy fare?

I'm not having kids. I'm in a committed relationship, I'm in my 30s. We use contraception always. I don't want to get pregnant and I dont want to have to be put in a position to decide on having an abortion either. Having abortion available here would not affect me in the slightest unless I became pregnant, in which case I would have better care and less complications if I chose an abortion. I think most women who are pro-abortion-availability in Ireland are the same. They are not going to abandon all pretence of birth control overnight.

super_furry

rockclover1 wrote: »

People will abuse choice,and will use it for every little mistake,which is wrong.If everyone tommorrow decided to have an abortion in ireland there would be no future irish for example.I dont think a small island like ireland is ready for abortion.In the UK there is a huge population,so abortion doesnt put a dent in the people generated economy.

Huh? If we allow abortion in Ireland everyone will have an abortion but they allow it in the UK and everyone doesn't? Is that seriously your argument?

Sarky

What's this? Youth Defense lying to make themselves look more popular? Madness! Why, what unprecedented occurrence shall be next? Rain falling up? Cats chasing dogs?

What a despicable, odious organisation.

jhegarty

jhegarty wrote: »

You calling it desperate lies because they are quoting the Garda figures ?


Is it that they are miss quoting the Guards ?

The Gardai are obviously against abortion.

rockclover1

do you understand how percentages work?

Do you understand how numbers work,a percentage is a portion of a population,populations vary by cold hard numbers not percentages.

robindch

rockclover1 wrote: »

Im not a christian [...]

And, christmas2012, I'm running for pope when Ratzinger hangs up his boots.

rockclover1 wrote: »

[...] you should be old enough to face the responsibility that comes with that.

You were recently banned from this forum. You can post under this new login for the moment, but one whiff of prior behavior, and you'll be back on holiday.

jhegarty

jhegarty wrote: »

You calling it desperate lies because they are quoting the Garda figures ?


Is it that they are miss quoting the Guards ?

I'm not calling anything anything

krudler

rockclover1 wrote: »

People will abuse choice,and will use it for every little mistake,which is wrong.If everyone tommorrow decided to have an abortion in ireland there would be no future irish for example.I dont think a small island like ireland is ready for abortion.In the UK there is a huge population,so abortion doesnt put a dent in the people generated economy.

I'm sorry but thats some of the dumbest fcuking reasoning I've ever heard.

MagicMarker

krudler wrote: »

I'm sorry but thats some of the dumbest fcuking reasoning I've ever heard.

Yes but don't you see, a percentage is just a portion of a population, and our population is a proportion of a percentage of the UK's, so we can't handle abortions yet, only a percentage of them in proportion of our population to the percentage of the UK, then you get to accidentally the whole thing.

jill_valentine

To be fair, I used to work on O Connell Street and just about every march in the country went past the window, and I've never yet seen a Garda estimate yet published that was an accurate reflection of the crowd, regardless of the protest in question.

I don't know if it's a conscious political thing or just playing it safe or what, but they do it consistently. I know putting an exact figure on stuff like that isn't easy, but they're almost always under by hundreds, sometimes even thousands. I've no idea or theories why.

Dades

rockclover/christmas2012 gone for his chips.

Thanks all.

jill_valentine

The plot thickens.

Gardaí said they were reluctant to put a figure on the number of people who attend protest marches but confirmed to TheJournal.ie that an estimated 2,500 people had taken part.

http://www.thejournal.ie/pro-choice-march-dublin-2-615912-Sep2012

So where did Youth Defence say they got their figure again...? And where, indeed, did the Irish Times get theirs?

Less than 1,000 people joined the 'March for Choice' in Dublin this afternoon in what had been billed as the first major mobilisation of pro-choice activists ahead of the publication of a major report examining how the Government should deal with the abortion issue.

http://www.thejournal.ie/pro-choice-march-dublin-2-615912-Sep2012/#comment-636043

How curious.

FouxDaFaFa

It's all fun and games until you go onto Youth Defence's page and see that one of your friends is a fan...

PopePalpatine

There's nothing youthful about the vast majority of YD's supporters... :pac:

Sarky

Well no wonder they're getting desperate, if they don't recruit a few young'uns before winter, there may not be a Youth Defence left come spring.