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DCM Class of 2011- the continuing challenge
Comments
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Name|Weeks Sessions|Weeks Total|Monthly Total|Yearly total|Comments
BobMac104|6|49.1|0m|770.5m| strange week but still managed my three important sessions. 21mLSR|
rom|6|48miles|197m|710m|Missed two planned runs as too busy but other than that ok|
Younganne|5|37.26|100.29|347.27m|had a great week this week..i did all the runs & hills as prescribed by Ecoli and there was a few extra miles in there too:D|
red face dave |||57|279|
Nules10 ||||276.3|
run44||||297.6m||
KittyMittens||||38.8||
Cutex||||78.8|
Alitoast||||83.94||
Scriba |||45.6m|158.18m|
Was a bit of a disjointed week but still got the 3 most important runs in. 4x1000m @ ~ 3:43. Hill session , 3 sets of (1 min on 1min recovery 2min on 2min recovery) this was tough and an lsr of just over 21m @ ~8:04 pace. Feel ok generally.
Is it a bad idea to be running a LSR at that pace. Say if your goal is 3hr 30 then Macmillan says you should be doing
8:31 to 9:31 per mile for LSR. I know I did a very fast LSR leading up to dublin which was a bad idea. With Cork looming any more run's at marathon pace at that distance will serious effect your time/run you down for Cork. Its no good if you do it in training and not in the race. This is just my opinion. I just think its very fast. "Feel ok generally" = you are wrecked
, did you do a warmup/warm down with that run ? were your legs sore/ found it hard to get to sleep that night ? What was your avg HR for the run and what is your HR max. What zone were you in ? It's like baking a delicate cake. I know its hard to not go out and do that for confidence but it will wear you down and cause you to under perform on the day. You only need to run 26.2 miles at that pace for the race. That where it matters. Again this is all info from someone new enough to running so take it with a pinch of salt but perhaps someone more weathered can say yay/nah on it. 0 -
Is it a bad idea to be running a LSR at that pace. Say if your goal is 3hr 30 then Macmillan says you should be doing
8:31 to 9:31 per mile for LSR. I know I did a very fast LSR leading up to dublin which was a bad idea. With Cork looming any more run's at marathon pace at that distance will serious effect your time/run you down for Cork. Its no good if you do it in training and not in the race. This is just my opinion. I just think its very fast. "Feel ok generally" = you are wrecked, did you do a warmup/warm down with that run ? were your legs sore/ found it hard to get to sleep that night ? What was your avg HR for the run and what is your HR max. What zone were you in ? It's like baking a delicate cake. I know its hard to not go out and do that for confidence but it will wear you down and cause you to under perform on the day. You only need to run 26.2 miles at that pace for the race. That where it matters. Again this is all info from someone new enough to running so take it with a pinch of salt but perhaps someone more weathered can say yay/nah on it.
Is it a bad idea to run the LSRs that fast? probably and if it were anyone else doing the same id probably think they were mad as you do I. I do them at this pace for no other reason but thats the pace the other lads in the club do them at (all far better runners than me btw). I'll be honest the first long run i did with them a few months ago now, was a 14 miler (before the 10mile series) and i ended up setting an unoffical half marathon PB for myself (I was goosed after it). after Dungarvan Ballycotton and Mallow the long runs started up again targeting cork and i had planned to drop back to a 9 min mile pace for my LSR's but went out again with this group (~8min pace) for 17m. Surprisingly i felt fine on it and decided to continue on with them and have done a 17,18, 2x20s and a 21 with them now. I just much prefer to run with a group than on my own and i actually look forward to the LSRs these days as there is always a good laugh on them. I dont feel wrecked after them thankfully (well.... I wouldnt be going out dancing that night either like..) and go out for 5 the next day. Is it ideal? again probably not but I am enjoying my training alot more ( I dont really even have a target for cork) this time round than i was training for Dublin on my own. I am sleeping fine after them as for Heart rate zones etc i really dont know. Thanks for the input Rom again. you are definately preaching to the converted though. Its all a bit of fun anyway.0 -
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Ecoli,
i know there is a reason why we train at different paces but can you give me a quick explanation of why and the benefits of doing the session at the pace prescribed and not at all out effort...
eg when we do intervals you might say 10k pace or 5k pace but for me it doesn't always seem to go at the 10k or the 5k pace but faster...this is no benefit to me so, is it?
Hope the question is clear:o
The old saying of practice makes perfect is true even in running. The best way to get better at something is to do it over and over. Some people use this approach when they start running. They go out 2-3 days a week and do X distance as hard as they can and in fairness they see rapid improvement. You will also hear people sometimes us the terms “racing will bring you on leaps and bounds” or elites talking about “racing themselves into shape” this is because races are the best training and the quickest way to improve.
So why is it that we don’t all go out and give it 110% in every run/session like so many football/rugby players etc are told day in day out at all levels of sport. The difference being that running is a condition based sport unlike many skills based ones such as football etc. This means that people can spend hours upon hours developing a skill to get better without taxing the body to the point of breaking down so skills can improve without putting stress on the body (or at least very minimal)
If you look to condition based sports you see that the improvement for the most part is predominantly physically based - i.e you get fitter/stronger/faster. The only way that this can be achieved is as a two part process – Stress and recover/Adapt. We need to work the body hard so that we can break down the muscle, which creates huge amounts of physiological changes in the body (muscle micro tears, change of PH balance in the blood etc). Once this happens in order to improve we must give the body sufficient time and fuel to recover.
If you think of it in terms of Weight lifting you don’t just start off lifting huge weights you build up. Your muscles are broken down through training and when you recover the muscles repair themselves and build back stronger (known as “supercompensation”) you body adapts to be able to take on a greater load the next time.
Without proper balance of training and recovery you cannot improve. If you don’t have adequate recovery the body will eventually breakdown (can be seen as injury or illness which are often associated with over training). Because of this we cannot race every run so we must break training down in order to give the body the same stimulus of a race with sustainable recoveries. This is where coaching comes into playing as each person reacts differently to different forms of training and recoveries which is why there is no one size fits all super training plan which all Elites use however there are some common elements of training which are known benefit the body in certain ways. This is where paces and recoveries come into play (Sorry about being long winded but I promise I am getting to your question now
)
Why train at particular paces and what happens if you exceed them?
As I said before the idea behind sessions is to simulate different physiological affects within the body that help simulate different aspects of racing. I will give a rough outline of what some of the paces are aimed to develop
1500m/1 mile pace
Reps at this pace are normally aimed at working on improving economy. The idea behind them is normally to improve economy and get the body working as efficiently and as comfortable at high end speeds as possible. These are not quite all out but close enough and are usually given with long recoveries (equal to the distance of the rep as a minimum)
3k-5k pace
This is also known as Vo2 Max pace or CV pace. Basically these are usually longer sustained hard efforts with roughly equally recovery. The idea of these is to work on the bodies ability to transport blood and as a result oxygen to the muscles needed to sustain race efforts for longer durations
10k-HM pace
This is known as your lactate/ Anaerobic threshold. This is the pace which your body begins to produce lactic quicker than it can clear it from the muscles. This in itself is not a bad thing as the body can use this as fuel but Hydrogen ions are a bi product which cause fatigue (this is what most people mistake for lactic acid in the legs)
When you are devising your training plan you are trying to make sure that you are using the training sessions that will benefit you working towards your goal race. There is no point in doing sessions that are great for 800m runners and will make them really efficient at 800m if they are targeting a marathon. That is not to say that they can improve a runner. Every type of training your do will improve you but its about getting the best bang for your buck from the training you put in.
Because of this the recoveries are set on the basis that you are aiming to get the effects from running at the pace prescribed. Run it too fast and you change the dynamics of the training. Take Half Marathon pace for example you are aiming to develop you Threshold pace to get faster at that pace.
If you run these too fast your body is not becoming more efficient at threshold pace but rather will work towards transporting blood around the body (i.e not getting the right benefits from the sessions that you are aiming for). This can be good but with the recoveries usually associated with these is a lot longer than the slower pace and in fact you are coming into the realm of “racing workouts” which means you will need to give your body a lot longer to recover than a session would have and as such are hampering future training.
It is okay to be slightly quicker however as sometimes you are not racing too often so in fact when you are running at 5k pace from a few months ago you could in fact be a lot fitter and that is now your new 10k race effort. You need to learn to judge the effort of sessions based on feel as well as pace. External factors like the wind/tiredness come into play and sometimes your paces on a given day can be too hard/too easy
You should have a few questions both before and after a session on any day and these are a great habit to get into. So every session day ask yourself this:
Before:
What type of benefit will this session do for my body?
After:
On a scale of 1-10 how hard was this? (10 being crossing the line falling to the ground after a PB)
If I was asked to do one more rep with same pace and same recovery would I be able to do it without too much effort?
This is some of the basic theory but to be honest I have only scratched the surface as its not something I think anyone has fully cracked but hopefully it should be enough info to try and answer your question (Sorry about the rant) 0 -
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Name|Weeks Sessions|Weeks Total|Monthly Total|Yearly total|Comments
BobMac104|6|49.1|0m|770.5m| strange week but still managed my three important sessions. 21mLSR|
rom|6|48miles|197m|710m|Missed two planned runs as too busy but other than that ok|
Younganne|5|37.26|100.29|347.27m|had a great week this week..i did all the runs & hills as prescribed by Ecoli and there was a few extra miles in there too:D|
red face dave |2|12|69|291|****e week mileage wise, Bad back pain but a new 10k p.b |
Nules10 ||||276.3|
run44||||297.6m||
KittyMittens||||38.8||
Cutex||||78.8|
Alitoast||||83.94||
Scriba |3|24.3m|69.9m|172.48| getting back into it again.
Ok week, 2 quality sessions. Plan is 4-5 outings this week, along with a 13m LSR.
Great running guys, and great posts! Learning all the time here! 0 -
Ya i run slowly sometimes but i just run by feel mostly on non session days. I don't use a heart rate monitor. I could be wrong but i don't think you can run anaerobically for very long never mind for a 20 mile run. What was your longest run for Dublin? I am never breathing hard on the long runs really and i am able to chat away so i don't think i am neglecting any systems in that respect. In terms of lactate threshold can't you just deduce it from your race times?
Dublin was like 19 miles, not long enough i know but I have help this year from someone that knows their stuff inside out and checks all my logs in a lot of detail, very lucky. I am just saying what i have been told. last week you were supposed to have an easy on but you had a very LSR regarding breathing hard. I did a session today and was not breathing hard for the whole thing. I am taking it all very seriously at present and feel that my stage presently needs a lot of work. if only the Olympic hopefuls were investing what i am/will be even monitoring your resting HR will show you that you are run down and may need a day rest. HRM has been the single best thing to improve my running. hardcore say run by feel but that's ok once you are that level but starting off a HRM is great. at the end of the day you want to have the same effort for the full race and training (not racing) with a HRM will help that. It will mean you get the best performance. 0 -
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Nothing better than a sambo after a raceSo this was kind of a last minute decision to do this race. I was told about it last tuesday after the club session so i said id go down and have a bash in place of thursdays speed work. I wasnt expecting much out of the legs to be honest as they are full of miles at the moment with training for cork. Anyway got the number and ran away down to the start where i did a stride or two to keep warm more than anything else. Bang ! gun went off without much warning and i shot out like a hare, looked at the watch, 5:48 pace."eh no not today" so i pulled back fairly lively to around 6:30 pace. from there on it was just a matter of trying to stay relaxed. Course wasnt the easiest but it wasnt too hard either and without too many negative thoughts I was at half way and was averaging 6:35. 4th mile wasnt easy and i lost a bit of time here but was trying to stay relaxed for the uphills and not blow up. at the 4 mile marker the road fell away for 100m or so and it was a nice flat final mile. I was just holding form and pace at this point. last 400m ! ugh got hard around here but held on for a time of 32:57 (6:35av) I was delighted with this! and a PB of nearly 2 mins from january. Had a lash of sangages and cakes after for eh glycogen replenishment purposes and went home happy. great time. 0 -
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