Should Irish be an optional subject not a cumpulsory one

Yes. If you want a knowledge and skills based economy then there are far more relevant subjects than Irish, like Maths and IT. IT should be a core subject, you can get most jobs without Irish, you won't get many without at least basic IT skills. You interact with IT systems everyday, I haven't used Irish in years. If you want to learn Irish after primary school then pick it as an extra subject, like people do Applied Maths, extra languages, etc. I wouldn't even be adverse to offering incentives for it, like extra LC points or whatever, just to encourage people to keep the language going.

conorhal wrote: »

But then I guess I'm in the minority of people that think schools are one of our most important cultural building blocks supposed to educate the soul as well as shaping citizens with enquiring minds, as opposed to churning out culturally void ‘economic units’ ready to plug into the factory floor.
A disturbing number of people however seem quite happy to live in a society which places no value on culture, possesses no values, retains no history and seeks to commodify all human experience, even beauty or love. Such a society of course would never reach for the stars, or write about them for that matter, it would just lie in the gutter and wonder how the sh1t floating past might be turned into gold.

Better then writing poems over a half empty glass of Guinness in the back arse of Connemara.

LordSutch wrote: »

Agreed, and seeing as it isnt our national language (in any meaningful/practical way) then it shouldn't be forced on us.



Surely european languages would be far more relavant to master than Irish! after all if you leave these shores (like many people currently are) then another language would be very helpful, German, French & Spanish spring to mind, and if you stay here you can continue to speak English!

In secondary school, yes, but I think Irish is the best language to teach in primary school as some kids will already have some, they can be more exposed to it through tv and radio, and I also think it'd be hard to convince a four-year old that learning German or French would be relevant to them .

If we taught Irish properly, kids could leave primary school with a good grasp of it (and even another language perhaps) and they could they focus on one or two European languages in secondary school (maybe one compulsory and one optional, the latter including Irish), which again, should be taught properly, not just by someone who can speak the language and be assumed that they can teach it.

Yes I agree Irish should be optional at Leaving Cert while having English and at least one Foreign language compulsory with the option of doing Irish or another Foreign Language.
Irish is really only needed for certain people and certain professions.

I would recommend that students complete compulsory Irish while in primary school and up to Junior Cert Level. Up to them if they wish to complete it in TY, and at Leaving Cert Level. Might be an idea to still do it if they wish as an extra subject in TY and 5th year once in 6th year can decide if they want to keep it on or not or if they wish have the option to do the exam in 5th year rather than in 6th. It be even then that they have it done and completed the subject. Then have the option of doing one or two foreign languages without or without having completed Irish for the Leaving already in 5th year rather than waiting till 6th year too do it.

Though all the Uni's and IT's require you have Irish at the moment but I'd hope that might become optional for IT's at least. You have to have Maths but I think you can use either use English or a language as a requirement into colleges at the moment. Any course that has languages in it you be expected to have covered that language at leaving cert level and achieve a certain grade to meet requirements of getting into the course.

I think it would be very important to introduce all or most foreign languages to students at a much younger age even from when they start school. Just basic stuff and grammar. Its stuff you could learn in Primary school first before going into Secondary school at least you get an grounded understanding of the language and foundations of it learnt already before even starting 2nd level. You can concentrate then on the oral, tape, composition, comprehension and writing when in secondary school and go a little advanced like you would with the Irish and English when in secondary school compared to primary school.

It work in students favour whether they are into languages or not or not good at them, if started early they might actually like and do well in the language. They should be given more choices of languages though down the country I feel French or German isn't enough, they should at least have Spanish and Italian as an option down the country too.

Seanchai wrote: »

It's not. Curiously enough, English is the "national language" of the nation known as England. As such it never was the national language of the nation known as Ireland. That honour has only been held by, unsurprisingly, Irish. This isn't rocket science.

If you believe that you'll believe anything. "Ireland" itself is just an island. An unimportant piece of land. It is the people who make it a nation and those people speak english. See? Logic. This isn't rocket science you know.

Seanchai wrote: »

That you don't know the difference between English being an "official language" of Ireland (which it is) and being a "national language" (which it isn't) reflects poorly on your command of the English language. Why is it always the same sort of undereducated types who use Irish as a scapegoat for their own failures most?

Why is it that we must fund this over inflated hobby of pseudo intellectuals with public funds just so they can look down their nose at those they call "undereducated" ?

billybudd wrote: »

Sorry but i wont move on i have accused you of nothing unlike you who have done so several times with snide remarks, they are just my opinion as for indentity yes i stand by that, if you have a Irish passport issued to anyone born on this Island then your identity is that which is on your passport regardless of how you feel about it you are officially from Eire, the Irish word for Ireland which is the English word for Eire but Gaeilge being the official language of Ireland officially known as Eire.

The official name of the country is Ireland in english. Though interestingly enough because of the wording in the constitution it's Eire in every other language.

conorhal wrote: »

Looking at the arguments from some on this thread, it would seem that the only subjects taught in schools should be:

Math
Mandarin
Computer science
Basic literacy
Chemistry
Business and Economics

End of.

Should we dispense with history? Ours is of little or no interest to the rest of the world. Surely English literature constitutes nothing but an impractical waste of time? Art classes or music serve no real function either come to think of it.

But then I guess I'm in the minority of people that think schools are one of our most important cultural building blocks supposed to educate the soul as well as shaping citizens with enquiring minds, as opposed to churning out culturally void ‘economic units’ ready to plug into the factory floor.
A disturbing number of people however seem quite happy to live in a society which places no value on culture, possesses no values, retains no history and seeks to commodify all human experience, even beauty or love. Such a society of course would never reach for the stars, or write about them for that matter, it would just lie in the gutter and wonder how the sh1t floating past might be turned into gold.

Sure taking stuff to the most ridiculous extreme is the best way to win an argument isn't it?