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British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?

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    #1322
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    No (I'm British/not Irish)
    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Only one thing could be said to that.
    Don't know if that was supposed to be funny?


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    #1323
    Madam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    No (I'm Irish)
    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Only one thing could be said to that.

    Titter I did:)


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    #1324
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    old hippy wrote: »
    Good for you. I wasn't fussed but have no problem with those that do. Just don't try and make me wear such a fashion no no ;)

    He didn't ask me to, I was buying the round in the welly- saw the poppys for sale and bought one. I don't care who dissaproves or otherwise. My years of letting bigoted opinion control me are over. (Thats not directed at you OH, I get the humour in your post)


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    #1325
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    I think we should all just have a group hug and try and all get along.


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    #1326
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    And for the anti-poppy facists there's always November 2012 to look forward when we can revisit this thread. :D


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    #1327
    Madam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    No (I'm Irish)
    Judgement Day wrote: »
    And for the anti-poppy facists there's always November 2012 to look forward when we can revisit this thread. :D

    Or indeed the Poppy facists;)


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    #1328
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    No (I'm Irish)
    Talking of poppy facists, 'poppy bling' now seems to be the order of the day on UK entertainment shows. Take X factor for example, with diamond studded poppies, poppy rings, big poppies, & shiny poppies too. I wonder how many of the contestants would have a clue what the poppy really stands for, or what its history is? Personally I think its a disgrace the way the poppy is being hyped up & bandied about on the TV like the 'Pop star' of symbols. The poppy is not meant to be all shiny & in your face of a Saturday night, it is meant to be a somber symbol to remember the dead & the bereaved, & its not meant to be a fashion accessory on bloody X Factor :mad:


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    #1329
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    old hippy wrote: »
    People should be allowed to be who they want to be & not force others to assimilate if they don't want to

    How very rich coming from people who are cheerleaders for the footsoldiers of the very British Empire which has spent centuries forcing natives to assimilate to British ways.

    There's some amount of hypocritical rubbish being spouted here by the apologists of British foreign policy and all its fanaticism against indigenous communities across the world, most particularly against the native Irish whose culture and independence these "heroes" of poppy day have trounced on and oppressed for centuries. This poppy stuff is British flag-waving tribalism at its most jingoistic. Expecting Irish people to respect people who commemorate these footsoldiers of the British Empire is historically laughable; it's expecting them to respect admirers of the family rapist. Nobody has presented a single morally solid reason why supporters of British dominance/occupation/control/oppression/suppression in Ireland should be honoured by Irish people. What moral good did they do?

    Show me your "heroes" and I'll tell you what your nation is. But the likelihood of any of these poppy ceremonies pausing to remember the innumerable victims of British state savagery across the world for the past few centuries is zero. Such is the bigoted, anti-Irish tribal nature of these British poppy "commemorations".


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    #1330
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    efb wrote: »
    I ... saw the poppys for sale and bought one.... My years of letting bigoted opinion control me are over.

    Er, clearly not.


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    #1331
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,433 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    And for the anti-poppy facists there's always November 2012 to look forward when we can revisit this thread. :D


    So anyone that doesnt wear a symbol of the British Empire is a facist? Im no facist but i would never wear a poppy.


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    #1332
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Seanchai wrote: »
    How very rich coming from people who are cheerleaders for the footsoldiers of the very British Empire which has spent centuries forcing natives to assimilate to British ways.

    There's some amount of hypocritical rubbish being spouted here by the apologists of British foreign policy and all its fanaticism against indigenous communities across the world, most particularly against the native Irish whose culture and independence these "heroes" of poppy day have trounced on and oppressed for centuries. This poppy stuff is British flag-waving tribalism at its most jingoistic. Expecting Irish people to respect people who commemorate these footsoldiers of the British Empire is historically laughable; it's expecting them to respect admirers of the family rapist. Nobody has presented a single morally solid reason why supporters of British dominance/occupation/control/oppression/suppression in Ireland should be honoured by Irish people. What moral good did they do?

    Show me your "heroes" and I'll tell you what your nation is. But the likelihood of any of these poppy ceremonies pausing to remember the innumerable victims of British state savagery across the world for the past few centuries is zero. Such is the bigoted, anti-Irish tribal nature of these British poppy "commemorations".

    Oh shut up.


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    #1333
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    No (I'm Irish)
    I have a metal poppy pin badge which is an option to wearing the larger one .


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    #1334
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    No (I'm Irish)
    There's nothing anti-Irish about poppy commemorations. In fact they aren't had with Irish people specifically in mind but rather those who have fallen at war. I doubt the people I've seen in London wearing them have worn them with the specific intention of being anti-Irish.

    Perhaps your POV is just a bit much?


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    #1335
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    No (I'm Irish)
    philologos wrote: »
    I doubt the people I've seen in London wearing them have worn them with the specific intention of being anti-Irish.
    Many of whom are Irish to .


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    #1336
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    No (I'm Irish)
    Indeed. It's an absurd argument.


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    #1337
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Seanchai wrote: »
    But the likelihood of any of these poppy ceremonies pausing to remember the innumerable victims of British state savagery across the world for the past few centuries is zero. Such is the bigoted, anti-Irish tribal nature of these British poppy "commemorations".

    :confused:

    You should come over to the USA for July 4th. You'd love it.

    There's parades all over the country to commemorate the defeat of the british.

    Maybe Ireland should have some kind of ceremony like that? Instead of people in the republic obsessing over what the brits do or dont do.


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    #1338
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Oh shut up.

    :rolleyes: You could, of course, always go to a British forum if you're just expecting everybody to swallow this poppy stuff and dress over the barbarism of your country's empire, which they fought for. Home truths, eh.


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    #1339
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    philologos wrote: »
    There's nothing anti-Irish about poppy commemorations.

    Given that, according to the Royal British Legion which organises the poppy commemorations, that poppy honours all those who fought for England/Britain in all of Britain's wars, including its innumerable wars against the Irish people throughout the centuries you'd be so unequivocally wrong with this claim. The implementers and maintainers of British rule in Ireland, and in other people's countries across the world, are being honoured by the Royal British Legion's red poppy. This is an indisputable fact.
    philologos wrote: »
    In fact they aren't had with Irish people specifically in mind but rather those who have fallen at war.

    Those, that is, who were on the British side only, the side which was occupying other people's lands and exploiting their resources. Not exactly the sort of people an impartial outsider who puts humanity above glorifying his tribe would want to honour.


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    #1340
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    No (I'm Irish)
    Again Seanchai - if you actually read my post you'll see my point is pretty clear. Poppy commemorations are not had in reference to Ireland, but rather in the reference to war.

    Personally, I couldn't care less whether or not you (as gurramok already has done) claims that I'm not truly Irish as a result.


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    #1341
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    No (I'm Irish)
    Seanchai wrote: »
    :rolleyes: You could, of course, always go to a British forum if you're just expecting everybody to swallow this poppy stuff and dress over the barbarism of your country's empire, which they fought for. Home truths, eh.

    "What's British about the poppy"? said the two Irish UN soldiers on the RTE Nationwide clip I posted earlier in this thread.

    No 'one country' owns the poppy as a symbol to commemorate the war dead, it belongs to all of us.


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    #1342
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    LordSutch wrote: »
    "What's British about the poppy"? said the two Irish UN soldiers said on the RTE Nationwide clip I posted earlier in this thread.

    No 'one country' owns the poppy as a symbol to commemorate the war dead.

    Cameron(your Prime Minister) said its a symbol of British pride.


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    #1343
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    There's parades all over the country to commemorate the defeat of the british.

    Maybe Ireland should have some kind of ceremony like that? Instead of people in the republic obsessing over what the brits do or dont do.

    I don't think we need to commemorate the defeat of the British in order to object to the glorification of British imperialist savagery, the destruction of entire civilisations, which is being sanitised by all this poppy stuff. With all this glorification of their military past, the British are so far from having a healthy, honest relationship with their past it is terrifying.

    Given that the poppy brigade is trying to sanitise their Empire's treatment of people, including the Irish, and expecting Irish people to wear their poppy commemorating their dead, it is obviously the right of an Irish person to call them on this attempt at rewriting history, this attempt to guilt the natives into joining them by commemorating the very oppressors of the said natives and their country over centuries.


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    #1344
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    sensibleken wrote: »
    I think we should all just have a group hug and try and all get along.



    :DNever, I say Never :D:p


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    #1345
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    No (I'm British/not Irish)
    gurramok wrote: »
    Cameron(your Prime Minister) said its a symbol of British pride.
    David Cameron says a lot of things. Some see it as British pride. Some don't. Its all about opinions.


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    #1346
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    No (I'm Irish)
    gurramok wrote: »
    Cameron said its a symbol of British pride.

    I'm sure it is a symbol of British pride, but that doesnt negate the fact that the poppy as a symbol is used by many nations all over the globe, including Britain & Ireland. The multi ethnic poppy wearing congragation in St patricks Cathedral Dublin yesterday (13th Nov) is testament to the fact that the poppy is not just a British symbol.


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    #1347
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,010 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Are we on the 2012 poppy thread already?


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    #1348
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    So anyone that doesnt wear a symbol of the British Empire is a facist? Im no facist but i would never wear a poppy.

    No, you just have a problem understanding the Queen's English. :D


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    #1349
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    And for the anti-poppy facists there's always November 2012 to look forward when we can revisit this thread. :D

    Are you seriously accusing these people of being fascists? So people are fascists if they don't subscribe to the poppy and the glorification of the British Army? I understand and respect why some might wish to wear a poppy and commemorate their dead. I also find it commendable to see the respectful remembrance of those who died so long ago.

    But you must also respect the right of people who do not share these sentiments. The British army carried out some shocking butchery across the globe, all in 'glorious' pursuit of empire. So it's easy to see why many find it and any symbolism associated with it as being very distasteful.


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    #1350
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    This is positively my last reply in this thread as I have no desire to see it rumble on until next November. The anti-poppy fascists that I refer to are those that dispute the right of those of us who choose to wear the poppy, to do so. I don't want anybody who doesn't want to wear a poppy to do so - why would I? As Lord Sutch has already mentioned in this thread, the corporate forcing of assorted media personalities to wear to poppy is disgusting, especially since half them don't even know what it commemorates. Perhaps BBC presenters as the State broadcaster should require their staff to but that's it. The sight of various wannabes wearing outrageous versions of the poppy on the X Factor etc is quite stomach-churning. Live and let live, and for God's sake lets drop it for this year - it's Christmas next.


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    #1351
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    No (I'm British/not Irish)
    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    Are you seriously accusing these people of being fascists? So people are fascists if they don't subscribe to the poppy and the glorification of the British Army? I understand and respect why some might wish to wear a poppy and commemorate their dead. I also find it commendable to see the respectful remembrance of those who died so long ago.

    But you must also respect the right of people who do not share these sentiments. The British army carried out some shocking butchery across the globe, all in 'glorious' pursuit of empire. So it's easy to see why many find it and any symbolism associated with it as being very distasteful.
    To people in the Republican movement perhaps. To the vast majority of people, they wear it or don't wear it and just get on with life. It is always made a big deal of because some people just can't stand that some wear a poppy.


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