British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?

Madam

No (I'm Irish)

All you lot not wanting to buy a red poppy should maybe consider buying a purple one - it does go to a good cause and will not offend anyone I suppose(unless you don't like animals);)

http://www.animalaidshop.org.uk/accessories

bobbysands81

KeithAFC wrote: »

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=Loyalist+victims+mural&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=923&tbm=isch&tbnid=GDTqJXx3-nB1FM:&imgrefurl=http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php%3F2377579-Hey-Motorik-tell-us-about-these-quot-paramilitary-murals-quot-in-Northern-Ireland.&docid=q834F9oUeLTweM&imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f5/NI_murals_Rights.jpg/800px-NI_murals_Rights.jpg&w=800&h=536&ei=flC9Tqy5O82x8QPRgrGSBA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=176&vpy=156&dur=2042&hovh=184&hovw=274&tx=124&ty=87&sig=102490806843139901456&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=185&start=0&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0

This would only go around in circles. I think we should keep it on topic.

You didn't answer my question. Why on earth would you find it so difficult to remember some people who were brutally murdered by your security forces?

Again, will you join me and please take some time out of your day today to remember these poor souls?

Skopzz

NO - WE DO NOT WANT TO SUPPORT A BRITISH EMPIRE THAT ANNEXED OUR 6 COUNTIES.

KeithAFC

No (I'm British/not Irish)

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You didn't answer my question. Why on earth would you find it so difficult to remember some people who were brutally murdered by your security forces?

Again, will you join me and please take some time out of your day today to remember these poor souls?

1) It is remembrance day for the British armed forces and all people who have served and made the ultimate sacrifice.
2) I don't do what a Republican tells me to do.

bobbysands81

KeithAFC wrote: »

1) It is remembrance day for the British armed forces and all people who have served and made the ultimate sacrifice.
2) I don't do what a Republican tells me to do.

I'm not detracting from your day of Remembrance, you're entitled to that and I hope it goes well for you however you choose to remember your fallen.

I'm also not 'telling you' you to do anything, I am asking you, on a human level, to take some time out of your day today to remember these poor souls?

http://i41.tinypic.com/24fb9xf.jpg

Will you?

KeithAFC

No (I'm British/not Irish)

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I'm not detracting from your day of Remembrance, you're entitled to that and I hope it goes well for you however you choose to remember your fallen.

I'm also not telling you to do anything, I am asking you, on a human level, to take some time out of your day today to remember these poor souls?

Why though?

Fratton Fred

Skopzz wrote: »

NO - WE DO NOT WANT TO SUPPORT A BRITISH EMPIRE THAT ANNEXED OUR 6 COUNTIES.

It has been established on here that the people of a nation are responsible for the actions of their government.

The Government of Ireland agreed to the partition of Ireland, that was further ratified by the 1922 election when pro treaty parties won the vast majority of seats.

How exactly were the "6 Counties" annexed?

bobbysands81

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It has been established on here that the people of a nation are responsible for the actions of their government.

The Government of Ireland agreed to the partition of Ireland, that was further ratified by the 1922 election when pro treaty parties won the vast majority of seats.

How exactly were the "6 Counties" annexed?

You still ignoring my question?

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You seem outraged at the fact that a few bombs have gone off in England killing a small number of people, do you not share the same outrage towards the terror that your country has waged on Ireland killing untold amounts?

Morlar

Originally Posted by bobbysands81 View Post
I'm not detracting from your day of Remembrance, you're entitled to that and I hope it goes well for you however you choose to remember your fallen.

I'm also not telling you to do anything, I am asking you, on a human level, to take some time out of your day today to remember these poor souls?

KeithAFC wrote: »

Why though?

Keith far as I can make out you are the only person on this entire thread who refuses to acknowledge innocent victims.

Why is that ?

bobbysands81

KeithAFC wrote: »

Why though?

To show compassion to some victims.

Why on earth is this so hard for you? Are you that cold?

Fratton Fred

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You still ignoring my question?

Yes, for the same reason I haven't voted in the poll. It is a totally loaded question and one that should be discussed in an entirely new thread rather than in one post in after hours.

How about you start a thread in the history forum and we discuss it there?

old hippy

On days like this, I tend to remember not only those who gave their lives in the belief that they were defending their freedoms but also those who still perish in any one of the endless conflicts that blight the globe. Big hippy eejit that I am.

KeithAFC

No (I'm British/not Irish)

bobbysands81 wrote: »

To show compassion to some victims.

Why on earth is this so hard for you? Are you that cold?

But it is completely irrelevant to what this thread is about which is about the Poppy and should Irish people wear it? It isn't about me giving a minutes silence to victims of the British Army. It is the same with Republicans. I would not expect them to give a minutes silence to the victims of Republican aggression.

bobbysands81

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yes, for the same reason I haven't voted in the poll. It is a totally loaded question and one that should be discussed in an entirely new thread rather than in one post in after hours.

How about you start a thread in the history forum and we discuss it there?

If you insist... though I don't understand why a simple answer couldn't put it to bed.

old hippy

bobbysands81 wrote: »

If you insist... though I don't understand why a simple answer couldn't put it to bed.

Oh, get a room, you two. And if that doesn't work, build a partition in it

bobbysands81

KeithAFC wrote: »

But it is completely irrelevant to what this thread is about which is about the Poppy and should Irish people wear it? It isn't about me giving a minutes silence to victims of the British Army.

Stop being so pedantic, it's about human compassion.

Simple question...

Are you willing to show a bit of human compassion and deceny and take a small bit of time out today to remember the victims killed by the British Army in the north?

KeithAFC

No (I'm British/not Irish)

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Stop being so pedantic, it's about human compassion.

Simple question...

Are you willing to show a bit of human compassion and deceny and remember the victims killed by the British Army in the north?

Are you willing to do the same for victims of the PIRA and other Republican paramilitary groups?

InTheTrees

Its a remembrance day for veterans and veterans of war, right?

Here in the US its predominately about US veterans, other countries have ceremonies for their own veterans. Obviously a lot of places try to keep it non-nationalistic as far as possible but there's few things as nationalistic as War and Armies so thats pretty tough.

So I dont think its particularly slanted towards the british empire, even though they're the only ones who wear poppies (and thats a way of raising cash for the british legion isnt it?). You just tend to be closer to them thats all.

There should be a ceremony in Dublin. Maybe at the memorial that the queen visited?

Sunnyisland

Noticed today not one person in the inauguration of president Higgins was wearing a poppy,Its just a obeservation by me.

gurramok

InTheTrees wrote: »

Its a remembrance day for veterans and veterans of war, right?

Here in the US its predominately about US veterans, other countries have ceremonies for their own veterans. Obviously a lot of places try to keep it non-nationalistic as far as possible but there's few things as nationalistic as War and Armies so thats pretty tough.

So I dont think its particularly slanted towards the british empire, even though they're the only ones who wear poppies (and thats a way of raising cash for the british legion isnt it?). You just tend to be closer to them thats all.

There should be a ceremony in Dublin. Maybe at the memorial that the queen visited?

Correct, remembrance day for veterans and veterans of ALL wars Britain has been involved in, ranging from WW1 to NI to Iraq. Its the NI part I have serious objections to due to their murderous actions there. Modern war objections(Iraq etc) are based on the fact the British Army does not represent us.

There does be a ceremony for Irish fallen of past wars, this is ignored by the poppy brigade as they want us to use the British ceremonies instead.

Sunnyisland

InTheTrees wrote: »

Its a remembrance day for veterans and veterans of war, right?

Here in the US its predominately about US veterans, other countries have ceremonies for their own veterans. Obviously a lot of places try to keep it non-nationalistic as far as possible but there's few things as nationalistic as War and Armies so thats pretty tough.

So I dont think its particularly slanted towards the british empire, even though they're the only ones who wear poppies (and thats a way of raising cash for the british legion isnt it?). You just tend to be closer to them thats all.

There should be a ceremony in Dublin. Maybe at the memorial that the queen visited?

There is a ceremony in Dublin for those Irishmen that gave there lives .

bobbysands81

KeithAFC wrote: »

Are you willing to do the same for victims of the PIRA and other Republican paramilitary groups?

Answer the question based on what you'd do based on your decency and principles.

I really don't understand your resistance to this question.

InTheTrees

gurramok wrote: »

Correct, remembrance day for veterans and veterans of ALL wars Britain has been involved in, ranging from WW1 to NI to Iraq. Its the NI part I have serious objections to due to their murderous actions there. Modern war objections(Iraq etc) are based on the fact the British Army does not represent us.

There does be a ceremony for Irish fallen of past wars, this is ignored by the poppy brigade as they want us to use the British ceremonies instead.

No. You're fixated on the UK. Remembrance day is not only for wars britian has been involved in.

And whining about the UK celebrating their own veterans is futile isnt it, why shouldnt they?

As I said here in the US, its about US veterans. In the republic of Ireland it should be about Irish veterans. In the UK its about UK veterans.

InTheTrees

gurramok wrote: »

There does be a ceremony for Irish fallen of past wars, this is ignored by the poppy brigade as they want us to use the British ceremonies instead.

Well of course it is because the "poppy" brigade are recognizing the UK's veterans not ours. I'm sure they're ignoring the US ceremonies at Arlington cemetery as well. they're probably ignoring the Turkish ceremony as well. And the Botswanan.

I mean its up to each country to celebrate their own veterans in their own way.

gurramok

InTheTrees wrote: »

No. You're fixated on the UK. Remembrance day is not only for wars britian has been involved in.

And whining about the UK celebrating their own veterans is futile isnt it, why shouldnt they?

As I said here in the US, its about US veterans. In the republic of Ireland it should be about Irish veterans. In the UK its about UK veterans.

But it ain't. Cameron recently said the poppy is a symbol of British national pride. We're not part of the UK so why should we abide to a British national symbol?

They can celebrate all they want about their Britishness, don't shove it upon independent nations and expect those purchasers of poppys to contribute to British ex-soldiers who served in NI, thats where the Irish context comes in.

A Dub in Glasgo

InTheTrees wrote: »

No. You're fixated on the UK. Remembrance day is not only for wars britian has been involved in.

And whining about the UK celebrating their own veterans is futile isnt it, why shouldnt they?

As I said here in the US, its about US veterans. In the republic of Ireland it should be about Irish veterans. In the UK its about UK veterans.

It is Armistice day, then countries brought their own wars into it so in the US it is now Veterans day.

Ireland remembers her veterans in July not November. The poppy is a British symbol to remember the dead from the British Armed Forces, that is a bridge too far for some Irish people.

citytillidie

KeithAFC wrote: »

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=Loyalist+victims+mural&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=923&tbm=isch&tbnid=GDTqJXx3-nB1FM:&imgrefurl=http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php%3F2377579-Hey-Motorik-tell-us-about-these-quot-paramilitary-murals-quot-in-Northern-Ireland.&docid=q834F9oUeLTweM&imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f5/NI_murals_Rights.jpg/800px-NI_murals_Rights.jpg&w=800&h=536&ei=flC9Tqy5O82x8QPRgrGSBA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=176&vpy=156&dur=2042&hovh=184&hovw=274&tx=124&ty=87&sig=102490806843139901456&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=185&start=0&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0

This would only go around in circles. I think we should keep it on topic.

1 massive big difference, Loyalist victims where not victims of an Army supported by the Irish goverment, unlike some victims who were killed by the British army.

InTheTrees

gurramok wrote: »

We're not part of the UK so why should we abide to a British national symbol?

Who's forcing you to abide?



Go to the Irish War memorial and give thanks to Irish veterans.

If you know someone in the brit armed forces then wear a poppy, if you feel sympathetic towards them. Or dont.

KeithAFC

No (I'm British/not Irish)

citytillidie wrote: »

1 massive big difference, Loyalist victims where not victims of an Army supported by the Irish goverment, unlike some victims who were killed by the British army.

A group which claimed and prided itself on fighting for the Irish people.

Sunnyisland

KeithAFC wrote: »

A group which claimed and prided itself on fighting for the Irish people.

You were asked a simple question,Can you not Answer it ?