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David Norris - Post-Revelations

  • 31-07-2011 11:59am
    #1
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,070 ✭✭✭✭


    Thought I'd start a new poll to see what sort of impact the latest scandal has had on Norris' level of support here.

    The letters he sent are available in full here for anyone that hasn't read them yet [pdf] - http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisletter.pdf

    So would you still consider him as a credible candidate, or are the latest developments just too serious to overlook?

    If you had intended to vote for him and now won't, who do you think you'll support instead?

    Would you vote for David Norris? 775 votes

    Yes
    0% 0 votes
    No
    38% 298 votes
    Maybe
    61% 477 votes
    Tagged:


«134567…22

Comments

  • #2
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    I wouldn't have voted for him anyway.


  • #3
    goat2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Thought I'd start a new poll to see what sort of impact the latest scandal has had on Norris' level of support here.

    The letters he sent are available in full here for anyone that hasn't read them yet [pdf] - http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisletter.pdf

    So would you still consider him as a credible candidate, or are the latest developments just too serious to overlook?
    this is headed with our harp,
    and before the trial
    so there are people who got to know him here in ireland according to this, who are they, what do they think


  • #4
    Arnold Layne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 976 ✭✭✭Arnold Layne


    I wouldn't have voted for him either. I can't understand how people could even before the recent events.


  • #5
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,190 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    I hadn't decided who I was going to vote for, because none of the candidates stood out. They're still all a bit meh as far as I'm concerned, Norris included.


  • #6
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Thanks for starting a new poll, I was about to suggest one to the moderators.

    I've changed from a definite YES to NO today and I've removed my Sen.David Norris signature too.

    I'm truely disappointed.


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  • #7
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Should have been a "I don't plan on voting at all now" option :P


  • #8
    bleg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    Appalling thing to do. Michael D all the way for me now!


  • #9
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    I don't know any other candidates :o Don't think can vote for him now though

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • #10
    goat2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    that letter was sent on sinead paper with the sinead address, and at the taxpayers expense i guess, which means it looks like we all had something to do with it, he is speaking of irish law, well israel has its own laws, and it was their business, to do as they wished, also he wanted a non custodial sentence, and there was no remorse for the child or his family in this letter


  • #11
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,070 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Teamshadowclan wrote: »
    Should have been a "I don't plan on voting now" option :P

    Probably a good idea to still vote. Otherwise you're tacitly supporting your least favoured candidate. I'll most like vote for Michael D.. The others seem like complete opportunists imo.. The thoughts of that turnip lookalike Gay Mitchell as our president makes me shudder.


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  • #12
    UglyBolloxFace
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭UglyBolloxFace


    Samir Poor Query wrote: »
    Thanks for starting a new poll, I was about to suggest one to the moderators.

    I've changed from a definite YES to NO today and I've removed my Sen.David Norris signature too.

    I'm truely disappointed.

    Why were you supporting him before the recent revelation anyway? Were the previous controversies not enough to dissuade you?


  • #13
    epgc3fyqirnbsx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,228 ✭✭✭epgc3fyqirnbsx


    I think it has been shown beyond doubt that he abused his office and so has lost credibility in my eyes. I prbably wasn't going to vote for him anyway but that is something that I'm sure of now


  • #14
    Lustrum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Lustrum


    Can anyone shed some light on where the letter was leaked from? After all, someone has known about this letter for the last 19 years, but said nothing about it - in my mind that's as bad as writing the letter in the first place


  • #15
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Can someone give me a potted version of what's going on?


  • #16
    goat2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    Lustrum wrote: »
    Can anyone shed some light on where the letter was leaked from? After all, someone has known about this letter for the last 19 years, but said nothing about it - in my mind that's as bad as writing the letter in the first place
    for me i dont care whether it was leaked or not, but i am glad someone brought it back to life, it tells the mindset of the person,


  • #17
    barrackali
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭barrackali


    David Norris is certainly not getting my vote now. :mad:


  • #18
    Dennis
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Dennis


    goat2 wrote: »
    this is headed with our harp, .........


    There appear to be completely separate three letters.

    The main letter written to the court by Norris does NOT have a harp on it and seems to be a personal request for leniency of the sentence based on European and Irish law that Norris himself helped change. He goes to great lengths to outline who he is and has used plain paper in order to do that.

    Of the other two, one is a coverpage and the other is a simple reference and is not trying to influence the outcome of anything.


  • #19
    UglyBolloxFace
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭UglyBolloxFace


    <snip>

    -
    potentially legally dodgy post you quoted removed.


  • #20
    UglyBolloxFace
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭UglyBolloxFace


    Dennis wrote: »
    goat2 wrote: »
    this is headed with our harp, .........


    There appear to be completely separate three letters.

    The main letter written to the court by Norris does NOT have a harp on it and seems to be a personal request for leniency of the sentence based on European and Irish law that Norris himself helped change. He goes to great lengths to outline who he is and has used plain paper in order to do that.

    Of the other two, one is a coverpage and the other is a simple reference and is not trying to influence the outcome of anything.

    He signed all three letters with "Senator", therefore he is bringing public office into it.


  • #21
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    I was in the maybe/don't know camp before this weekend - it is a definite no now.


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  • #22
    alex73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    Hypocrisy Hypocrisy Hypocrisy .... If it were a TD he would be expelled for the party... If it were a bishop on behalf of a priest... well there would be total uproar..

    David Norris his former lover was convicted of statutory rape, he should have left well alone.

    Interesting he says that the guy was abused by his father. Usually the case as the abused become the abusers.

    David Norris will never hold the office of President. He should have had better judgement that to use his office of Senator to write such a letter.


  • #23
    ChunkyLover_53
    Closed Accounts Posts: 901 ✭✭✭ChunkyLover_53


    TL;DR

    Vote Norris.

    Openly Gay President dealing with the Catholic Church for the lulz!


  • #24
    flyaway.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 519 ✭✭✭flyaway.


    Wow. No, I would not vote for him.


  • #25
    northkildare
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭northkildare


    DN so far has 18 votes above, Many of us stand by him, We dont complain about what straight people do so dont see why when a gay man like david has normal point of veiw he gets run over,

    Many in our community still support him all the way, nobody can point out what already happens on the scene anyway regardless. try going to our clubs and see for yourself what david means and maybe youl have a better understanding


  • #26
    epgc3fyqirnbsx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,228 ✭✭✭epgc3fyqirnbsx


    northkildare wrote: »
    DN so far has 18 votes above, Many of us stand by him, We dont complain about what straight people do so dont see why when a gay man like david has normal point of veiw he gets run over,

    Many in our community still support him all the way, nobody can point out what already happens on the scene anyway regardless. try going to our clubs and see for yourself what david means and maybe youl have a better understanding

    His sexuality has nothing to do with why I would or wouldn't vote for him


  • #27
    MonaghanPenguin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭MonaghanPenguin


    Was never warm to Norris but after this I think he's not fit to be a senator never mind President.


  • #28
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,070 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    northkildare wrote: »
    DN so far has 18 votes above, Many of us stand by him, We dont complain about what straight people do so dont see why when a gay man like david has normal point of veiw he gets run over,

    Many in our community still support him all the way, nobody can point out what already happens on the scene anyway regardless. try going to our clubs and see for yourself what david means and maybe youl have a better understanding

    Which club allow 40 year olds to hook up with 15 year olds? You're talking through your hat mate.


  • #29
    UglyBolloxFace
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭UglyBolloxFace


    Salvador Most Jaw wrote: »
    His sexuality has nothing to do with why I would or wouldn't vote for him
    My name is URL wrote: »
    Which club allow 40 year olds to hook up with 15 year olds? You're talking through your hat mate.

    Can you please cop onto ourselves and stop feeding the troll? He'll get bored soon and fúck off back under the bridge.


  • #30
    Aldebaran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭Aldebaran


    It was always between Norris and Higgins for me, will most likely vote for Higgins now.


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  • #31
    northkildare
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭northkildare


    If more people came to gay pride they would see how it is not the big bad evil people try to make it out to be.

    The older guys always look after the new guys to the scene and very helpful, thats the point david is try to make and people think its wrong, Come to the next gay pride before saying things are evil, lots of good older gay guys out there.


  • #32
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    Up the bum sex causes big stinker.

    David Norris slips on gay poll.


  • #33
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Stop trying to play the victim. This has nothing to do with homosexuality. I happen to know that at least one of the Norris team who has quit (six have now quit by the way) is gay, how can you explain that?


  • #34
    goat2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    northkildare wrote: »
    DN so far has 18 votes above, Many of us stand by him, We dont complain about what straight people do so dont see why when a gay man like david has normal point of veiw he gets run over,

    Many in our community still support him all the way, nobody can point out what already happens on the scene anyway regardless. try going to our clubs and see for yourself what david means and maybe youl have a better understanding
    should i have to remind you, that i have alot of friends who are gay, and decent people, who would not dare look at a child, just like me who happen to be straight,
    what we are on about is the fact gay or straight or otherwise, would look at a child in a sexual way, never mind carrying out a sex act on a child, it is gross, cruel, disgusting.
    david is also worried about the physological and material effect prision will have on his friend, well, if you do the crime, you have do do the time.
    and i ask you what effect will the act have on the child,
    please do tell, and dont call me anti gay.
    i was giving david my vote, that was until i read this letter, i did think alot of him, now i feel he does not take having child sex seriously, i have changed, and it was never about his being gay.


  • #35
    northkildare
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭northkildare


    i think its wrong that most of us try to hide what goes on, anyone who is on the scene knows what goes on behind the scene, Fair play to DN for bringing the subject to light. He has done so much for us in the past and we should stand by him now rather than running him over,

    He is our only hope of getting the rights we need, I remember he came to one of our meetings and the great support he gave us all regarding civil rights and adoption.


  • #36
    grizzly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,789 ✭✭✭grizzly


    northkildare wrote: »
    If more people came to gay pride they would see how it is not the big bad evil people try to make it out to be.

    The older guys always look after the new guys to the scene and very helpful, thats the point david is try to make and people think its wrong, Come to the next gay pride before saying things are evil, lots of good older gay guys out there.

    I'd be very pro gay. But for me this isn't a case of gay v straight. If this was a about a 40 year old man and a 15 year old girl I would have the same reaction.

    I am very disappointed because before this he would have easily got my vote.


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  • #37
    7sr2z3fely84g5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭7sr2z3fely84g5


    What would happened if it was a woman riding a young lad?.


  • #38
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    northkildare wrote: »
    DN so far has 18 votes above, Many of us stand by him, We dont complain about what straight people do so dont see why when a gay man like david has normal point of veiw he gets run over,

    Many in our community still support him all the way, nobody can point out what already happens on the scene anyway regardless. try going to our clubs and see for yourself what david means and maybe youl have a better understanding

    Most people don't care about his sexuality, it's how he dealt with sexual abuse.
    Saying he could "guarantee absolutely" that Ezra Nawi would not re-offend is akin to a bishop moving an abusing priest and expecting the problem to go away.
    What is worse is his letter is three years after the Fr Brendan Symth affair so he as a legislator should be more than aware than one cannot "guarantee absolutely" the actions of a sex offender.
    He claims in the Independent they broke up in 1985 so how was he going to "guarantee absolutely" that his former lover would not re-offend.
    The fact is he couldn't. I am sure if any judge in Israel did see those letters they would be appalled at his expertise when it comes to sex. From what I see in his letters, David Norris thinks he is an expert because he was awarded an honoury diploma by the center for sexual minorities.


  • #39
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Alivia Square Alphabet wrote: »
    What would happened if it was a woman riding a young lad?.

    Like BrummyTom for instance?.


  • #40
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Probably a troll account but even so...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056343302
    Hello all,

    Friends have pointed me in the direction of this discussion.

    First of all I would like to take this opportunity to express my sincere sorrow to both my supporters and the people of Ireland - I feel I have let you all down with the current revelations which are being bandies about. I never, ever, meant to cause this.

    I was simply helping a dear friend in any way I could. Surely you would have done that same for a trusted companion?

    There will be further details released in due course but please allow me time to recover and in time I shall furnish you with further details.


  • #41
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Alivia Square Alphabet wrote: »
    What would happened if it was a woman riding a young lad?.
    It would be statutory rape.

    The only difference (in Ireland) appears to be if both individuals were under age of consent- then I think the male alone would be guilty, or has the law been changed yet?


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  • #42
    Thorella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Thorella


    I would still vote for Norris. Anyone else would step down but I admire him for continuing to try regardless of people trying their best to destroy him. Please don't tear into me, this is my first post :o


  • #43
    northkildare
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭northkildare


    goat2 wrote: »
    should i have to remind you, that i have alot of friends who are gay, and decent people, who would not dare look at a child, just like me who happen to be straight,
    what we are on about is the fact gay or straight or otherwise, would look at a child in a sexual way, never mind carrying out a sex act on a child, it is gross, cruel, disgusting.
    david is also worried about the physological and material effect prision will have on his friend, well, if you do the crime, you have do do the time.
    and i ask you what effect will the act have on the child,
    please do tell, and dont call me anti gay.
    i was giving david my vote, that was until i read this letter, i did think alot of him, now i feel he does not take having child sex seriously, i have changed, and it was never about his being gay.

    Im saying when on the scene its fine with a lot of people and when they come on here its like hush hush dont let people know what really goes on. be it right or wrong we all know this to be the fact and we should face the problems and not try cover it up like the church, least david has the bottle to come out and admit it


  • #44
    DaveSlats
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭DaveSlats


    David Norris is a fool.

    If he wants to have, say, a silly chatshow nobody would object to that.

    But to be a leader of state?


  • #45
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Thorella wrote: »
    I would still vote for Norris. Anyone else would step down but I admire him for continuing to try regardless of people trying their best to destroy him. Please don't tear into me, this is my first post :o
    That's strange.

    If a bishop involved with abuses in the RCC wrote a similar letter and then stood by it would you still "admire him for continuing to try regardless of people trying their best to destroy him"?

    I'd hope not anyway.


  • #46
    7sr2z3fely84g5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭7sr2z3fely84g5


    i didn't mean to post in a question sense,i meant maybe there might not been much uproar if was female doing the deed,the young lad probably be more than happy and not report.


  • #47
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    later10 wrote: »
    It would be statutory rape.

    never be prosecuted tho, the issue is that people still think that if a 15 year old gay boy has gay sex it turns him gay (i doubt it tbh) but if a 15 year old straight boy has straight sex well its ok (could be)


  • #48
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    David norris is now posting in the politics forum.


  • #49
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Alivia Square Alphabet wrote: »
    i didn't mean to post in a question sense,i meant maybe there might not been much uproar if was female doing the deed,the young lad probably be more than happy and not report.

    but if the lad in this case was gay mabey he'd be happy ?

    did he report or was it hios parents looking to report the man who gave their son the gay


  • #50
    epgc3fyqirnbsx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,228 ✭✭✭epgc3fyqirnbsx


    Tigger wrote: »
    never be prosecuted tho, the issue is that people still think that if a 15 year old gay boy has gay sex it turns him gay (i doubt it tbh) but if a 15 year old straight boy has straight sex well its ok (could be)

    The issue, for me anyway, is that he used his office to try to influence judicial proceedings in another jurisdiction for a crime that also exists in this country. Firstly he had no mandate to do anything like that and secondly it is a serious abuse of his office.
    That is before you consider the type of crime it was and this countrys history with similar crimes


  • #51
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Dennis wrote: »
    goat2 wrote: »
    this is headed with our harp, .........


    There appear to be completely separate three letters.

    The main letter written to the court by Norris does NOT have a harp on it and seems to be a personal request for leniency of the sentence based on European and Irish law that Norris himself helped change. He goes to great lengths to outline who he is and has used plain paper in order to do that.

    Of the other two, one is a coverpage and the other is a simple reference and is not trying to influence the outcome of anything.

    All the correspondence made reference to his position in Ireland. he was obviously seeking to use his office for the benefit of a friend.

    However, even if he didn't seek to use his position, his actions would still be acts of appalling judgement. He wrote to the judges after his friend had been found guilty of the statutory rape of a teenager. What on earth was he thinking? There was huge controversy a few years back when a FF TD wrote seeking leniency on behalf of one of his jailed constituents. Discrimination based on sexuality is a terrible thing; but so are double standards based on the same, and that's exactly what Norris' continuing supporters are applying.

    Also- can we just ignore northkildare (the person and the place :D). Seriously, he's obviously a troll, and one that seems to want to dredge up homophobic sentiment. If we ignore him he'll slink back under his bridge.


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