David Norris - Post-Revelations

mikemac

Sub in Ezra Yiszak for Larry Murphy and David Norris for the Archbishop of Dublin and if was found the Archbishop has sent a reference and name
-dropped his position to try to get a sentance reduced and boards would melt with the outrage.
Ok, Larry Murphy is an extreme example but imagine it was the Archbishop who sent a reference to the Israeli courts

But question it here and you can get the homophobia card thrown at you :rolleyes:
Well it's not just now, that card was used if you questioned what Helen Lucy Burke brought forward information though I'm still waiting for those tapes.

So similar to the US elections.
I'm a black man and I'm proudly voting for Obama!
I'm a voter from West Virginia and I won't vote for Obama.....Wow, you must be a redneck and a racist and you must not be ready for change

Obama West Virginia in the search box for youtube for examples

Pompey Magnus

mikemac wrote: »

But question it here and you can get the homophobia card thrown at you :rolleyes:
Well it's not just now, that card was used if you questioned what Helen Lucy Burke brought forward information though I'm still waiting for those tapes.

There were some here that were willing to point the blame for Norris' crumbling campaign on an underlying homophobia in the Irish mindset, far right Catholics, Helen Lucy Burke, Fine Gael, the media or Israel. It never seemed to occur to them that perhaps the real reason was that they had pinned their colours to a bad candidate however they were just too busy searching for a conspiracy to see where the real problem lay.

TryItMyWay

mikemac wrote: »

Sub in Ezra Yiszak for Larry Murphy and David Norris for the Archbishop of Dublin and if was found the Archbishop has sent a reference and name
-dropped his position to try to get a sentance reduced and boards would melt with the outrage.
Ok, Larry Murphy is an extreme example but imagine it was the Archbishop who sent a reference to the Israeli courts

But question it here and you can get the homophobia card thrown at you :rolleyes:
Well it's not just now, that card was used if you questioned what Helen Lucy Burke brought forward information though I'm still waiting for those tapes.

So similar to the US elections.
I'm a black man and I'm proudly voting for Obama!
I'm a voter from West Virginia and I won't vote for Obama.....Wow, you must be a redneck and a racist and you must not be ready for change

Obama West Virginia in the search box for youtube for examples

Just as an aside you'd have had to have a screw loose to vote in another Republican president after the appaling reign of the shrub Bush. Their nominee was for all pracical purpses principle skinner from the simpsons.

Also who the yanks vote in is their business and of little concern unless the want to be used in a Failte ad. They are on the way out and I'm sure our nation will be kissing the next superpowers arse and pretending we never knew them that really when they re all trundling around with wheelbarrows full of dollars to buy postage stamps....

Norris should resign his senate seat immediately as should any remaining members of the Catholic hierarchy implicated in cover ups or tolerance of child abuse. IMO Obama was the least worst and his skin is irrelevent unless you have that 20th century fetish called racism.

WhiteRussian

No, he is far too intellectually abstract for my typically breadline brain.

log22

I wouldnt vote for him.with him controversal stance on pedofhiles.nd prancing around on blooms day

mikemac

TryItMyWay wrote: »

Just as an aside you'd have had to have a screw loose to vote in another Republican president after the appaling reign of the shrub Bush.

After seeing what 53 Democrats in the Senate did and the impressive record John McCain had, the Democrats should be let nowhere near power imo.

TryItMyWay wrote: »

Also who the yanks vote in is their business and of little concern unless the want to be used in a Failte ad.

True enough, my post was offtopic but I thought a valid comparison

TryItMyWay wrote: »

IMO Obama was the least worst and his skin is irrelevent unless you have that 20th century fetish called racism.

Well it was his supporters crying racism against blue collar workers who wanted Hillary Clinton

lighthouse

I tell ye boys, this whole controversy has certainly got people worked up!

DeVore

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

There were some here that were willing to point the blame for Norris' crumbling campaign on an underlying homophobia in the Irish mindset, far right Catholics, Helen Lucy Burke, Fine Gael, the media or Israel. It never seemed to occur to them that perhaps the real reason was that they had pinned their colours to a bad candidate however they were just too busy searching for a conspiracy to see where the real problem lay.

True.

But just because there are valid reasons not to vote for him DOESNT mean that there *hasnt* been an orchestrated anti-gay conspiracy around his candidacy.

I'll give yis some time to think about that one

DeV.

TryItMyWay

lighthouse wrote: »

I tell ye boys, this whole controversy has certainly got people worked up!

Shame we can't nominate an inaminate object. My vote would go to a bail of peat briqettes from Centra.

1)It's made in Ireland
2)It's got genuine Irish roots
3)Maybe we could export it
4)No one paid it 70,000 a year to scratch it's ass
5)It's actually useful
6)It has not writted letters on behalf of board na mona asking for clemancy in a case of statutory rape.
7)It did not get where it is by virtue or being related to or married to someone.
8)It's less irritating and whining than Michal D.Higgins and won;t drone on about Peig or waste money on another pointless TV station.
9)When we get bored of it we can set fire to it and give it's salary to charity
10)If it has to meet prince philip it will be an intellectual equal
11)Orangemen will see it's cheeful plastic bindings as symbolic of their electoral triumph
12)It's got more character than gay michell

Vote for the centa peat briqette. It's less **** than the alternatives....

Wolfe Tone

TryItMyWay wrote: »

Shame we can't nominate an inaminate object. My vote would go to a bail of peat briqettes from Centra.

1)It's made in Ireland
2)It's got genuine Irish roots
3)Maybe we could export it
4)No one paid it 70,000 a year to scratch it's ass
5)It's actually useful
6)It has not writted letters on behalf of board na mona asking for clemancy in a case of statutory rape.
7)It did not get where it is by virtue or being related to or married to someone.
8)It's less irritating and whining than Michal D.Higgins and won;t drone on about Peig or waste money on another pointless TV station.
9)When we get bored of it we can set fire to it and give it's salary to charity
10)If it has to meet prince philip it will be an intellectual equal
11)Orangemen will see it's cheeful plastic bindings as symbolic of their electoral triumph
12)It's got more character than gay michell

Vote for the centa peat briqette. It's less **** than the alternatives....

Its good, but its no carbon inanimate rod.

Pompey Magnus

DeVore wrote: »

True.

But just because there are valid reasons not to vote for him DOESNT mean that there *hasnt* been an orchestrated anti-gay conspiracy around his candidacy.

I'll give yis some time to think about that one

DeV.

Well of course there were people on both sides who either supported or opposed his candidacy simply on the grounds of his sexuality, but to call this opposition a conspiracy is a bit far fetched and giving it far more credit than it deserves, it was a tiny minority which had no real influence on the decision making of the Irish public, Norris was his own worse enemy and it is just silly for his support to use the homophobic excuse as a scapegoat to let him off the hook. The front runners in these campaigns always have the greatest heat put on them, some succeed in surviving it and some fail, Norris failed and that is all there is to it. It happens time and again in free and democratic elections across the world irregardless of sexual preferences.

TryItMyWay

DeVore wrote: »

True.

But just because there are valid reasons not to vote for him DOESNT mean that there *hasnt* been an orchestrated anti-gay conspiracy around his candidacy.

I'll give yis some time to think about that one

DeV.

A conspiracy of individuals who have never met or spoken to each other and though Norris was a pompous, self promoting, ivory tower ,gas bag playing to the same portion of the electorate that gave us the horror of the Greens.

But keep thiking that there was a conspiracy if that helps you...here are some useful items to sprinkle into it, UFOs, 911, Lizard men, the new world order, the masons, satanists in the vatican and of course...David Norris.

He's an alien? It would certainly explain his lack of understanding of our earthling morals and lack of appreciation for his running as galatic president...after all he got the MOST votes in the senate......bet he stuck that to his fridge....

mikemac

The posters with the Norris sigs should bring them back
If you're going to back a candidate in a race then you back them to the end and don't quit

Now I know his campaign staff left him

But those sigs claimed the Daily Mail was against Norris yet it was the Irish Times who broke this latest story. Can't blame the Daily Mail for this one

So where are the sigs?

Or will I still be reading posts now as I did in 2010 that rural Catholic Ireland is not ready for a gay president and if you so much as question Norris you get the homophobic card thrown at you :eek:

Actually for this, After Hours has been milder then the politics forum which has stricter moderation.
Over there, you'll read posts that rural backward knuckle dragging Ireland are not ready for Norris while the open minded urban sophisticates are desperate to show their liberal credentials and terrified what the rest of the world thinks of Ireland.

Vote for a gay President to show how open and forward we are
....and then.....
What do you mean you oppose Norris, how dare you bring his sexuality into it you bigot :rolleyes:

Wow, for a Republic we certainly have a group desperate to be seen as elite.

Pompey Magnus

mikemac wrote: »

The posters with the Norris sigs should bring them back
If you're going to back a candidate in a race then you back them to the end and don't quit

No you don't. The whole point of a campaign is that people get to scrutinise the candidates and can change their minds if they wish (a concept which seemed to have been lost on many in Norris' camp actually). They are well within their rights to remove their support for him.

This whole episode does however show the irony of their protests that Norris was recieving too much attention on his background and his attitudes, as this grilling has now revealed information which was enough for them to remove their support surely then they should admit they were wrong and thank the media for helping them avoid voting for a man who they now know to be unsuitable for the role of President.

If they had had their way and the campaign was an easy ride for him then this information may have remained hidden and a man, who they no longer support once provided with the fruits of his grilling, would quite possibly have become the next President of Ireland.

chillywilly

Lets be honest, we are all waiting for Biggins to say something.

bernardo mac

Another victory for Israel who,as with their enemies, are guilty of pillage and rape of a different nature

skregs

DeVore wrote: »

True.

But just because there are valid reasons not to vote for him DOESNT mean that there *hasnt* been an orchestrated anti-gay conspiracy around his candidacy.

I'll give yis some time to think about that one

DeV.

Except there hasn't been an orchestrated anti-gay conspiracy around his candidacy at all.
*All* the major criticism of his campaign has been focused on his repeated comments that a middle aged man raping a teenage boy is an acceptable practice.

He's now had plenty of opportunities to openly state that he is opposed to this sort of thing, but it seems he'd rather wax lyrical about his comments being philosophical musings

Pompey Magnus

bernardo mac wrote: »

Another victory for Israel who,as with their enemies, are guilty of pillage and rape of a different nature

Yeah, damn those Israelis providing the Irish electorate with those pesky facts.

Would you have preferred those letters to have remained hidden and the Irish people to have remained oblivious to details which, now that they are out, seem to have swung opinion against Norris?

bernardo mac

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Yeah, damn those Israelis providing the Irish electorate with those pesky facts.

Would you have preferred those letters to have remained hidden and the Irish people to have remained oblivious to details which, now that they are out, seem to have swung opinion against Norris?

Of course the truth should be public and accept that Norris is no longer a likely President but am not without hope that "biblical" justice will visit Israeli fundamentalists eventually

Lord TSC

mikemac wrote: »

The posters with the Norris sigs should bring them back
If you're going to back a candidate in a race then you back them to the end and don't quit

That's an attitude which has sunk Ireland to be quite honest.

"Oh sure, FF messed up the country, but I've voted for them all my life and I won't stop now!"

"Oh sure, FG may be lying out their asses about their policies, but my granny voted for them so I have to as well!"

whydoibother?

DeVore wrote: »

True.

But just because there are valid reasons not to vote for him DOESNT mean that there *hasnt* been an orchestrated anti-gay conspiracy around his candidacy.

I'll give yis some time to think about that one

DeV.

Exactly this.

There are people who would have been against him for dubious reasons, who are now delighted to have something "legitimate" to latch on to when speaking against him.

I also agree with the poster who said the real debate now should be his position in the Seanad.

Show Time

bernardo mac wrote: »

Another victory for Israel who,as with their enemies, are guilty of pillage and rape of a different nature

Can't say i blame them on this occasion as they helped to expose an Irish politician trying to use a position of power to help his gay lover get away with the crime of buggering a 15 year old lad.

Now would he still have so many people backing him up if his name was Fr Norris?

Min

DeVore wrote: »

True.

But just because there are valid reasons not to vote for him DOESNT mean that there *hasnt* been an orchestrated anti-gay conspiracy around his candidacy.

I'll give yis some time to think about that one

DeV.

John Drennan of the Independent newspaper said on radio that he talked with David Norris last Friday.

Drennan said he (Drennan himself) believed it was done to take down a person that liberals in Ireland love as he is a pillar of the liberal movement in Ireland and he is someone they love to promote, that this was a strike against liberalism and brought about by the campaign against conservatism in Irish society.

Though I read today that a Michael D fan told John Connolly, an Irish Zionist about the letters and he has being receiving hate mail for exposing David Norris.

Min

chillywilly wrote: »

Lets be honest, we are all waiting for Biggins to say something.

To be fair to Biggins, he has said plenty since the latest controversy broke.

Liam Byrne

Min wrote: »

Drennan said he (Drennan himself) believed it was done to take down a person that liberals in Ireland love

What ? The only objectionable thing that was done was the letter writing, so the only person who "took down" Norris was Norris himself.

This "shoot the messenger" crap is getting unbelievably tiresome.

Dyr

twinQuins wrote: »

I hate to blame homophobia but why is it only when the election campaign started? Why only Norris? Why so conveniently make allegations that go along the old line of linking homosexuality and paedophilia (wrt the McGill interview)?

Because none of the other candidates have a track record of dubious opinions on pederasty? Because, shock horror, the old line is true to some degree? There are gay men out there who have a thing for jailbait, in the same way as some straight men do?

If we want an equal society then that means equality, not sacred cow status.

Pompey Magnus

Min wrote: »

Drennan said he (Drennan himself) believed it was done to take down a person that liberals in Ireland love as he is a pillar of the liberal movement in Ireland and he is someone they love to promote, that this was a strike against liberalism and brought about by the campaign against conservatism in Irish society.

Is this suggesting that if Norris supporting liberals had their way the existence of those letters would not have been revealed to the Irish public?

k.p.h

Maybe I'm not getting the full picture here as I have only read the reports online and not what exactly the letters wrote said.

But could it not be considered that Norris was just standing as a character witness for someone who he knew. From what I gather (could be wrong) at no stage did he deny the crime but only said that the accused was trust worthy and would not re-offend. Statutory rape is such a complicated thing it's easy to pass judgement as morally it is black and white. I will refrain for saying too much more but it dose at least deserve some amount of thoughtful consideration and not just instant condemnation.

Also would like to point out that their is never a simple case of Pro Palestinian convicted in Israel, Pro Palestinian Irish presidential candidate smeared by involvement in case. It stinks of alterior motives IMO.

In the end Norris probably is in the wrong here. I don't particularly feel bad for him in anyway but I do feel bad for all the people who would have benefited if he was elected.I have no doubt he would have done a lot of good work if he was is elected but it seems impossible now.

Happyman42

Norris's ambivalence and downplaying of a crime against a boy is exactly the same as the ambivalence that allowed so many to turn a blind eye to the actions of priests and bishops.
That is what is 'wrong' about these letters.
It is tragically sad that his supporters will not see this after all that has happened here over the last ten years.

whydoibother?

k.p.h wrote: »

Maybe I'm not getting the full picture here as I have only read the reports online and not what exactly the letters wrote said.

But could it not be considered that Norris was just standing as a character witness for someone who he knew. From what I gather (could be wrong) at no stage did he deny the crime but only said that the accused was trust worthy and would not re-offend. Statutory rape is such a complicated thing it's easy to pass judgement as morally it is black and white. I will refrain for saying too much more but it dose at least deserve some amount of thoughtful consideration and not just instant condemnation.

Also would like to point out that their is never a simple case of Pro Palestinian convicted in Israel, Pro Palestinian Irish presidential candidate smeared by involvement in case. It stinks of alterior motives IMO.

In the end Norris probably is in the wrong here. I don't particularly feel bad for him in anyway but I do feel bad for all the people who would have benefited if he was elected.I have no doubt he would have done a lot of good work if he was is elected but it seems impossible now.

For me the fact that he seemed to do it in his official capacity makes it worse. If he had done it as a private individual, it would probably still have put me off him, but doing as an elected Seanad member, while representing me, gets me even angrier. I have no wish to obtain leniency for people who commit statutory rape. This doesn't represent me properly.