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Alive! magazine and a no junk mail sign.

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Comments

  • #402
    Jamiekelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭Jamiekelly


    Lol I just read one of the "Dumbag" articles for the laugh.
    The title was "Beware! Education damages your mind"
    Do I need to say more? :rolleyes:


  • #403
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Jamiekelly wrote: »
    The title was "Beware! Education damages your mind"
    Do I need to say more? :rolleyes:

    Yes actually you do, because usually those pieces are tongue in cheek and satirical. Link the piece perhaps.


  • #404
    Bucklesman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Bucklesman


    prinz wrote: »
    Yes actually you do, because usually those pieces are tongue in cheek and satirical. Link the piece perhaps.

    Poe's law to be honest.


  • #405
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    prinz wrote: »
    I'd say he had about as much influence as Nigel Farage, that is to say none whatsoever with anyone capable of stringing a coherent sentence together
    The issue wasn't whether he was influencing intelligent people, but whether he was influencing the election by telling outright lies to catholics who, let's be blunt here, are not taught to question what priests like Chairman McKevitt say.
    Jamiekelly wrote: »
    Lol I just read one of the "Dumbag" articles for the laugh. The title was "Beware! Education damages your mind"
    Given that Ratzinger is quoted from 1979 as having said:
    Ratzinger wrote:
    “The christian believer is a simple person: bishops should protect the faith of their little people against the power of intellectuals.”
    ...I'd imagine that could well be church policy :rolleyes:


  • #406
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    robindch wrote: »
    The issue wasn't whether he was influencing intelligent people, but whether he was influencing the election by telling outright lies to catholics who, let's be blunt here, are not taught to question what priests like Chairman McKevitt say.

    BS. Not even worth responding too. You should also note that the official hierarchy in the Irish Catholic Church found no issue with the Lisbon Treaty whatsoever IIRC and made clear they had no grounds for advising Irish Catholics to vote against it. Anything that McKevitt spouts is his own private business. Funnily enough I don't know a single Irish Catholic who takes what Alive! has to say as unquestionable truth. There's a reason they are usually left untouched, even in Catholic churches.

    But of course Catholics aren't intelligent enough to find out anything for themselves...

    I suppose the next time some ol' biddy is on Joe Duffy to complain about something Fr Brian D'arcy had to say you'll be amazed, because, like, an Irish Catholic has never questioned something a priest had to say before........ever..........


    I used to have respect for you as a poster, while not always agreeing with you. The last few days, have seen that ebb away.


  • #407
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    prinz wrote: »
    I don't know a single Irish Catholic who takes what Alive! has to say as unquestionable truth.
    One of the older members of my extended family does and frankly, it's very upsetting and frequently almost frightening to see her fears and hatreds being stoked by McKevitt. Monthly.

    Over one memorably awful dinner two years back, this woman shrieked that it was the job of my extended family to outbreed the muslims (several non-Irish were present) and how would we ever do that if we voted in the Lisbon Treaty which would force abortion onto Ireland. And then exited the room in floods of tears.

    If you haven't seen what happens when people's mental ability declines with age, and when they surround themselves with hate-rags like McKevitt's, then I quite understand why you might want to dismiss what I'm saying.


  • #408
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    robindch wrote: »
    One of the older members of my extended family does and frankly, it's very upsetting and frequently almost frightening to see her fears and hatreds being stoked by McKevitt. Monthly. Over one memorably awful dinner two years back, this woman shrieked that it was the job of my extended family to outbreed the muslims (several non-Irish were present) and how would we ever do that if we voted in the Lisbon Treaty which would force abortion onto Ireland. And then exited the room in floods of tears. If you haven't seen what happens when people's mental ability declines with age, and when they surround themselves with hate-rags like McKevitt's, then I quite understand why you might want to dismiss what I'm saying.

    tbh the same could go for someone reading Farage's UKIP leaflets, including a nice picture of an actual turkey IIRC in case you couldn't quite read. I doubt either had any meaningful effect at the end of the day.

    Nice little change though, from influencing 'Catholics' to the aged and mentally infirm, saturated in Alive!... that's a seismic shift. What about the younger, mentally able Catholics...:confused:.. I dismissed what you were saying because it was outlandish. Perhaps you'd like to reign it in, to who you were actually referrring to? Personally, as I side, I don't know a single person who puts any store whatsoever in any sort of anything of a political/serious nature. Infact I've even heard a priest wonder aloud why they bother leaving the papers at the back of his church at all, because so few are taken/read.


  • #409
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    prinz wrote: »
    Nice little change though, from influencing 'Catholics' to the aged and mentally infirm, saturated in Alive!... that's a seismic shift.
    Not if you actually read the original post where I explicitly pointed out that I was talking "from my own personal experience" (see the fourth paragraph) :confused:


  • #410
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    robindch wrote: »
    Not if you actually read the original post where I explicitly pointed out that I was talking "from my own personal experience" (see the fourth paragraph) :confused:

    .......on to the next post where Catholics aren't taught to question priests? Supposed that just refers to this one lady too does it? Claimed as yourself to be church policy.... let's not pretend that was anything but applied to all Catholics.

    If I had a post where I said in own personal experience this atheist I met was an ass, and a couple of posts later described all atheists as ignorant buffoons.. you'd be ok with that?


  • #411
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    prinz wrote: »
    .......on to the next post where Catholics aren't taught to question priests?
    Are you saying that they are taught and expected to question priests?


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  • #412
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    robindch wrote: »
    Are you saying that they are taught and expected to question priests?

    Yes. Much as you'd like to pretend they weren't, the days of the dictatorial priests are gone. You can ask a priest anything you like, or question his reasoning on anything.


  • #413
    starlit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,349 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    Burn the Alive newspaper alive everytime you get it in the letterbox. Maybe just write a note saying you will sue alive newspaper for those who are sending this junk mail which is alive. Its a load of tripe if you ask me, pure cult stuff in it. Utter rubbish what is written in it. Luckily it doesn't be posted to the house but my mam can get it free from the back of the church after mass. I just feel like throwing it away everytime I see it, it makes me cringe to just look at the front page. The only comic value is the whole letter cac. Talk about brainwashing! Could you not contact the gardai or something they might be able to do something about it OP.


  • #414
    starlit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,349 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    prinz wrote: »
    Yes. Much as you'd like to pretend they weren't, the days of the dictatorial priests are gone. You can ask a priest anything you like, or question his reasoning on anything.

    I might be mistaken but it is still the case today, there are still quiet a few dictatorial priests out there! Especially of those approaching retirement! There are still priests out there that favour talking with men than women why that is I cannot understand more or less treating women as second class citizens which is wrong in my eyes. The more modern ones aren't, you are right you can speak to them about anything. Its the modern ones you need to give credit to not those dictatorial priests like oohh lets see can I name one which is in fact the Pope!


  • #415
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    snuggles285 wrote: »
    I might be mistaken but it is still the case today, there are still quiet a few dictatorial priests out there! Especially of those approaching retirement! There are still priests out there that favour talking with men than women why that is I cannot understand more or less treating women as second class citizens which is wrong in my eyes. The more modern ones aren't, you are right you can speak to them about anything. Its the modern ones you need to give credit to not those dictatorial priests like oohh lets see can I name one which is in fact the Pope!

    Could be a some knocking about. I only knew of one who is retired a few years now..probably for his own benefit before someone clobbered him. Tosser.

    However original point remains, Catholics are not taught to accept every word from a priest on every subject without question.


  • #416
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    prinz wrote: »
    Much as you'd like to pretend they weren't, the days of the dictatorial priests are gone. You can ask a priest anything you like, or question his reasoning on anything.
    Sheesh, prinz, are you reading any of my posts today -- I'm almost in despair :)

    I didn't say that catholics weren't allowed to ask questions, I said that they are not taught to ask questions. And particularly -- and this is relevant to Chairman McKevitt's case -- his readers are not encouraged or expected to seek out or explore alternate perspectives, or to cast the slightest shadow of doubt upon the perfect sunlight of McKevitt's own silly or hateful points of view.

    It's the difference between teaching somebody what to think, and teaching them how to think. Religious teachers in general, and catholics in particular, tend to the former unfortunately (for the obvious reason that they have a fixed 'what' to communicate and propagate, rather than a flexible worldview in which every 'what' is open to change).


  • #417
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    robindch wrote: »
    Sheesh, prinz, are you reading any of my posts today -- I'm almost in despair :) I didn't say that catholics weren't allowed to ask questions, I said that they are not taught to ask questions.

    ..and you'd be wrong. Questions are encouraged.


  • #418
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    prinz wrote: »
    Questions are encouraged.
    In what specific areas and by whom?


  • #419
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    robindch wrote: »
    In what specific areas and by whom?

    Interior decorating and manicure techniques. :rolleyes:


  • #420
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Robindch, while I do understand why you might think Catholics are not thought to question, given the Church's past, the days when the Priest's word was law are long gone whether you like it or not.

    Again I do understand why you might think otherwise.

    But in my personal experience no Catholic I know, myself included, has ever been told not to question things nor have they never been told how to question.

    To be fair, I'd imagine if question beliefs really was not taught or allowed there would not be any athiests would there?


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  • #421
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Robindch, while I do understand why you might think Catholics are not thought to question...

    A 30 second spell on google would show questioning of the official RCC-"line" up to Cardinal level on hot topics. To accuse Catholics of not questioning anything is completely inaccurate.


  • #422
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    prinz wrote: »
    A 30 second spell on google would show questioning of the official RCC-"line" up to Cardinal level on hot topics. To accuse Catholics of not questioning anything is completely inaccurate.

    True. I am sure there are some who do still take the Church's word as law but it is not accurate to say we all do.

    Again though given the Church's past we can probably understand why Rob thinks that way.


  • #423
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    To be fair, I'd imagine if question beliefs really was not taught or allowed there would not be any athiests would there?
    Since when does one need permission or encouragement to question dogma? There were atheists back in times when heresy was punishable by death.


  • #424
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    There were atheists back in times when heresy was punishable by death.

    I know that.

    The point was if Catholics never questioned anything at any point in history, never knew how to,there would not have been athiests.


  • #425
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Since when does one need permission or encouragement to question dogma?

    I was responding to the point that Catholics are not taught to question and saying that imo the existance of athiesm disproves that.


  • #426
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I know that.

    The point was if Catholics never questioned anything at any point in history, never knew how to,there would not have been athiests.
    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I was responding to the point that Catholics are not taught to question and saying that imo the existance of athiesm disproves that.
    Curiosity is not acquired, it is an innate human characteristic, and combined with the free will apparently bestowed on us by God it is inevitable that people will question what they are taught.


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  • #427
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Curiosity is not acquired, it is an innate human characteristic and combined with the free will apparently bestowed on us by God it is inevitable that people will question what they are taught.

    You're missing my point completely.


  • #428
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    You're missing my point completely.
    You've actually made two separate points in the preceding posts:
    The point was if Catholics never questioned anything at any point in history, never knew how to,there would not have been athiests.
    This suggests that people who considered themselves Catholic have questioned their beliefs throughout history. This goes without saying - Catholics are human (despite popular opinion on this forum) and humans are naturally curious and inquisitive. There will always be those who won't accept a prescribed worldview and will endeavour to find their own.
    I was responding to the point that Catholics are not taught to question and saying that imo the existance of athiesm disproves that.
    This suggests it is the Church's encouragement that leads people to question their beliefs. I'd disagree, as unlike other sects of Christianity, the Catholic Church has a prescribed doctrine that people will nonetheless question for the reasons stated above.


  • #429
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    But in my personal experience no Catholic I know, myself included, has ever been told not to question things nor have they never been told how to question.
    The kind of splendiferous misinterpretation that your excellent self and prinz are experiencing is symptomatic of the problem I'm taking about :)

    It's very simple really.

    I'm not saying that christians do not ask questions. Let me repeat that. I am not saying that christians do not ask questions.

    I am saying -- indeed I think I've said it several times now -- that christians in the main are NOT ENCOURAGED to ask questions about a relatively wide range of topics and they are not encouraged to seek out or explore alternate views.

    It's the difference between permitting questions and encouraging questions, particularly the kind of structural philosophical, epistemological and evidential questions which lead to people developing the kind of independent thinking which leads to a decline or a loss of religious belief.

    Incidentally, the pope agrees that catholics should be kept in the dark:
    Bishop Ratzinger, in 1979 wrote:
    The christian believer is a simple person: bishops should protect the faith of their little people against the power of intellectuals.
    All I'm doing is pointing out that what the pope wants is what's actually happening.


  • #430
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    robindch wrote: »
    I am saying -- indeed I think I've said it several times now -- that christians in the main are NOT ENCOURAGED to ask questions about a relatively wide range of topics and they are not encouraged to seek out or explore alternate views..

    ..yet you have no back up whatsoever... and you've been corrected. I have discussed a massive range of topics with members of the clergy... from abortion to music. No one ever discouraged me from asking questions and debating answers. I have yet to see anything from the RCC telling me not to question x or y. If you are going down the doctine and dogma route then it's the height of f*cking childishness to berate the Roman Catholic Church for not encouraging something which directly contradicts the tenets of the faith. Philosphy is encouraged. For some reason you seem to rue the fact that the RCC doesn't encourage people to lose their faith.
    robindch wrote: »
    Incidentally, the pope agrees that catholics should be kept in the dark:All I'm doing is pointing out that what the pope wants is what's actually happening.

    The little bit of respect I was holding on to is gone. 1979 :rolleyes: Afraid to even show the context?

    You really are smarter than that.


  • #431
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    prinz wrote: »
    ..yet you have no back up whatsoever... and you've been corrected. I have discussed a massive range of topics with members of the clergy... from abortion to music. No one ever discouraged me from asking questions and debating answers. I have yet to see anything from the RCC telling me not to question x or y............

    So you're saying that the RCC no longer regards itself as the sole interpreter of scripture? I missed that announcement meself....


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  • #432
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Nodin wrote: »
    So you're saying that the RCC no longer regards itself as the sole interpreter of scripture? I missed that announcement meself....

    Apparently you missed what I actually wrote so that wouldn't suprise me.


  • #433
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    prinz wrote: »
    Apparently you missed what I actually wrote so that wouldn't suprise me.

    You don't think claiming ultimate authority over whats supposed to be the 'master plan' is a big deal then...?


  • #434
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    robindch wrote: »
    The kind of splendiferous misinterpretation that your excellent self and prinz are experiencing is symptomatic of the problem I'm taking about :)

    It's very simple really.

    I'm not saying that christians do not ask questions. Let me repeat that. I am not saying that christians do not ask questions.

    I am saying -- indeed I think I've said it several times now -- that christians in the main are NOT ENCOURAGED to ask questions about a relatively wide range of topics and they are not encouraged to seek out or explore alternate views.

    It's the difference between permitting questions and encouraging questions, particularly the kind of structural philosophical, epistemological and evidential questions which lead to people developing the kind of independent thinking which leads to a decline or a loss of religious belief.

    Incidentally, the pope agrees that catholics should be kept in the dark:All I'm doing is pointing out that what the pope wants is what's actually happening.

    But it isn't that's the whole point I am trying to make.

    If it was happening do you think Prinz or I or any of the other Catholics on Boards would be here debating and discussing and questioning?

    Your quote was from 1979. And yes back then perhaps questioning was not encouraged.

    But this is 2010. The Church, contrary to popular belief, has changed a lot and I for one have never heard a Priest tell a member of his congregation not to question things nor have I met a Catholic who has not been taught how to question.


  • #435
    BeatNikDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭BeatNikDub


    I have emailed these folks 6 times, left 2 voice messages and called several times during their opening office hours of 9-10.30am (!!!!) and have still yet to get a reply to confirm I am off their distribution list.

    I do not want to receive this and should not have to.

    Very aggravating.


  • #436
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    BeatNikDub wrote: »
    I have emailed these folks 6 times, left 2 voice messages and called several times during their opening office hours of 9-10.30am (!!!!) and have still yet to get a reply to confirm I am off their distribution list.

    I do not want to receive this and should not have to.

    Very aggravating.
    Send a fuck load pro-choice flyers to them.


  • #437
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    it's alive! it's back from the dead after three years...it's a Miracle!


  • #438
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    BeatNikDub wrote: »
    I have emailed these folks 6 times, left 2 voice messages and called several times during their opening office hours of 9-10.30am (!!!!) and have still yet to get a reply to confirm I am off their distribution list.

    I do not want to receive this and should not have to.

    Very aggravating.

    You're not on a distribution list; they put one through every door. I've been trying to find out if 'no junk mail' signs cover free papers (I too am sick of having that hate-filled rag put through my door), but I haven't been able to find anything either way.


  • #439
    lazygal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Junk mail is classed as advertising - so it can be ignored.


    What you need is a sign saying 'Addressed mail only' = this means only mail sent to you as a named person at that address can be put in the letterbox. Ours cut the junk by 100%.


  • #440
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,349 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPIwsAW2Q0w


    Ever single time I see this topic bumped, I immediately get this song stuck in my head for the next few hours. Now you lot can suffer too.


  • #441
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    lazygal wrote: »
    Junk mail is classed as advertising - so it can be ignored.


    What you need is a sign saying 'Addressed mail only' = this means only mail sent to you as a named person at that address can be put in the letterbox. Ours cut the junk by 100%.

    Deadly, will get one of those so. Thanks.


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  • #442
    Pumpkinseeds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    We usually just file it under bin. I've never actually read it. It's usually delivered to us by some old chap and it probably gets him out of the house for a few hours and gives him something to do. The last issue came in handy for wrapping up some broken glass, I had to dig through the recycle bin first though.


  • #443
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,186 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    But this is 2010. The Church, contrary to popular belief, has changed a lot and I for one have never heard a Priest tell a member of his congregation not to question things nor have I met a Catholic who has not been taught how to question.
    The whole point of Catholicism is that it isn't meant to change or evolve. That is the primary difference between Catholics and Protestants.


  • #444
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    But it isn't that's the whole point I am trying to make.

    If it was happening do you think Prinz or I or any of the other Catholics on Boards would be here debating and discussing and questioning?

    Your quote was from 1979. And yes back then perhaps questioning was not encouraged.

    But this is 2010. The Church, contrary to popular belief, has changed a lot and I for one have never heard a Priest tell a member of his congregation not to question things nor have I met a Catholic who has not been taught how to question.
    Wouldn't you think God and his son/self would have set the dam religion up complete in the first place. Very shoddy work from a super-being and the people he has working under His guidance.


  • #445
    BeardySi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭BeardySi


    Not sure if it works the same South of the border, but if I get crap when there's a clear sign saying "no junk mail/newspapers" I'll post it back to them without a stamp, with a note explaining why it's been sent back...

    Royal Mail then charge them postage + a £1 handling fee.... :D


  • #446
    shankespony
    Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭shankespony


    Nice one the old woman with the plastic rain thing on her head like Mrs Doyle ignores my sign aswell, am afraid to tackle her about it in case I offend or she kicks my butt. so give it a quick glance then light my fire!


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