Alive! magazine and a no junk mail sign.

Nevyn

tbh wrote: »

I have a sticker on my letterbox that says "no leaflets, flyers or papers please, an post mail only". It's respected apart from Alive. One night a woman put one in the letterbox and I opened the door and said - very politely - "excuse me, didn't you see the sign?" She look absolutely gobsmacked and said "but...that doesn't apply to *our* paper surely?"

Their god claims dominion over the earth which includes your letter box.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Simi wrote: »

LMAO at January 2010. "Experts say kids need 'tough love'."

Let me guess: they never say who the "experts" are.

humanji

Stinicker wrote: »

Let me see,

Joseph Stalin
Benito Mussolini
Pol Pot
Mao Zedong
Jim Jones
Napolean
Kim Jong iL

Such great moral atheists, I guess they got rid of about quarter of a billion people, but being an Atheist that doesn't matter as we are just intelligent animals who means nothing to the world. I guess if we all took this liberal atheist approach we'd all be atheist and all commit suicide enmass to prevent the polar icecaps from melting.

I see your list and raise you God. Ever actually read the Bible? He's the most evil mother f*cker in literary history!


OP, just stand outside your house masturbating while drinking a snifter of port. That should scare them away. Plus, the port will make your neighbours think you're classy.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Thaedydal wrote: »

Their god claims dominion over the earth which includes your letter box.

My God - The Flying Chocolate Spaghetti Monster - claims dominion over thee God. They lose.

philologos

humanji wrote: »

I see your list and raise you God. Ever actually read the Bible? He's the most evil mother f*cker in literary history!

Not the first time such a claim has been made. Rather than arguing that God isn't evil, let me try something different.

One would have to ask where does one get ones notion of evil from. It is a concept that is universally binding on all people, or is it a subjective notion. If it is a universal notion, where does such a notion come from?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

humanji wrote: »

I see your list and raise you God. Ever actually read the Bible? He's the most evil mother f*cker in literary history!

in fairness, no. That's just attributed to him by his followers.

Nodin

Jakkass wrote: »

Not the first time such a claim has been made. Rather than arguing that God isn't evil, let me try something different.

One would have to ask where does one get ones notion of evil from. It is a concept that is universally binding on all people, or is it a subjective notion. If it is a universal notion, where does such a notion come from?

'Evil' is classically a title aimed at things which transgress social norms. As such things have vastly changed over the millenia, you're really going to have to try better than that.

tbh

Jakkass wrote: »

Not the first time such a claim has been made. Rather than arguing that God isn't evil, let me try something different.

One would have to ask where does one get ones notion of evil from. It is a concept that is universally binding on all people, or is it a subjective notion. If it is a universal notion, where does such a notion come from?

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

humanji

Jakkass wrote: »

Not the first time such a claim has been made. Rather than arguing that God isn't evil, let me try something different.

One would have to ask where does one get ones notion of evil from. It is a concept that is universally binding on all people, or is it a subjective notion. If it is a universal notion, where does such a notion come from?

Doesn't it coem from God himself? And if humans and angels can be deemed evil by going against his will, why can he not be judged by the very same rules?

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

in fairness, no. That's just attributed to him by his followers.

God can stop all wars. He doesn't. God can bring eternal happiness to all. He doesn't. God can make my shoes smell good. He doesn't. I can't imagine how anyone can consider him good.

philologos

tbh wrote: »

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

I would argue that the Epicurean problem of evil is flawed in the respect, that it doesn't recognise that it is possible that bad things need to happen in the world for a reason, rather than the simple binary that good things must happen all the time or else God is evil.

In terms of the Problem of Evil, I prefer the evidentialist argument against God's existence, which is that God is less likely to exist if evil is present in the world.

This doesn't answer my question. In order to even discuss about what evil is, we need to know how we define evil. That's why humanji's logic needs further elaboration to make sense.

humanji wrote:

Doesn't it coem from God himself? And if humans and angels can be deemed evil by going against his will, why can he not be judged by the very same rules?

If we get our standard of good and evil from God, how is God Himself going to be evil by His own standard? - The claim that God is even evil is extremely suspect to begin with.

On a more practical level it might be best to keep on the topic of Alive rather than making assertions about how evil the God of the Bible is?

ScumLord

Jakkass wrote: »

Not the first time such a claim has been made. Rather than arguing that God isn't evil, let me try something different.

One would have to ask where does one get ones notion of evil from. It is a concept that is universally binding on all people, or is it a subjective notion. If it is a universal notion, where does such a notion come from?

The God in the Christian bible always came off as a spoilt child with too much power to me. His basically your typical king or emperor from the time period.

Evil is pretty understandable to an animal trying to make sense of the world for the first time. If we can't explain something we tend to make up something to protect us from it.

prinz

humanji wrote: »

God can stop all wars. He doesn't. God can bring eternal happiness to all. He doesn't. God can make my shoes smell good. He doesn't. I can't imagine how anyone can consider him good.

So can humans, and He gives us the opportunity to do these things for ourselves.

philologos

Nodin wrote: »

'Evil' is classically a title aimed at things which transgress social norms. As such things have vastly changed over the millenia, you're really going to have to try better than that.

Actually, that isn't a problem. Just because human behaviour and human thought changes over time, does not discredit the view that there is a universal standard of morality by which we will all be judged by. People can think whatever they want, but whether or not it pertains to reality or is coherent is another issue. The same is true of morality.

No doubt I will be blamed for taking the thread off topic in a few minutes as usual :pac:

ScumLord: I find it very difficult to extrapolate that view from the Bible unless people strawman passages and quite very very selectively.

ScumLord

Jakkass wrote: »

Actually, that isn't a problem. Just because human behaviour and human thought changes over time, does not discredit the view that there is a universal standard of morality by which we will all be judged by. People can think whatever they want, but whether or not it pertains to reality or is coherent is another issue. The same is true of morality.

No doubt I will be blamed for taking the thread off topic in a few minutes as usual :pac:

ScumLord: I find it very difficult to extrapolate that view from the Bible unless people strawman passages and quite very very selectively.

As far as I can remember from school God racked up a substantial kill rate getting people to do his bidding. Turned someone into a pillar of salt for looking in the wrong direction.

Trashbat

prinz wrote: »

So can humans, and He gives us the opportunity to do these things for ourselves.

Free will is the ultimate cop out for religion.

At what point does god stop sitting there tutting at how his creations have allowed injustices to happen and actually say "hold on, I dont want to see a child die of starvation while my representative on earth sits in the vatican wiping his arse with €500 notes"

philologos

ScumLord wrote: »

As far as I can remember from school God racked up a substantial kill rate getting people to do his bidding. Turned someone into a pillar of salt for looking in the wrong direction.

I believe God gives life, and has the right to take it away. It is His world, we are merely in it, He has given us rules to follow so that we might life fulfilling lives. It is up to us if we want to follow them, and it is up to us if we wish to face the consequences.

I've decided to live a life that is fulfilling to God serving His purposes.

If you don't wish to do the same, that is your choice. I don't see how it is relevant to a controversial and arguably inflammatory free newspaper that goes through peoples doors though.

Ickle Magoo

prinz wrote: »

I see. So once again selective reasoning comes to the fore.

Hello pot!

This was about pictures that were gory being pushed thru letterboxes, I drew a similarity with another kind of gory procedure and pictures of that being pushed thru letter boxes, you then try to make some kind of strawman out of my being okay with people being racist because they have never seen coloured people...it's hardly selective reasoning.

prinz wrote: »

I shouldn't have to put up with you shouting your crazy here!!! Oh wait we haven't gotten to the stage where we silence people we don't agree with yet? I'll wait.

Yay! You're getting it! And if we did get to the stage that people who take great enjoyment from discriminating against various minorities couldn't peddle their clap-trap to all and sundry, I'd have no crazy to shout. :pac:

Dyr

Trashbat wrote: »

Free will is the ultimate cop out for religion.

At what point does god stop sitting there tutting at how his creations have allowed injustices to happen and actually say "hold on, I dont want to see a child die of starvation while my representative on earth sits in the vatican wiping his arse with €500 notes"

The fact you used the pound sign instead of a euro means you're probably some durty heretical prod :mad: It's only proper that il papa would wipe his swiss with pictures of the head of a false church :pac:

edit:
Somehow that pound sign has turned to a euro! Witchcraft!!

Ickle Magoo

Trashbat wrote: »

Free will is the ultimate cop out for religion.

At what point does god stop sitting there tutting at how his creations have allowed injustices to happen and actually say "hold on, I dont want to see a child die of starvation while my representative on earth sits in the vatican wiping his arse with €500 notes"

You're not getting this. It's a lottery god. Sometimes you get a prayer answered, mostly not. Can create the universe, cares if men have sex, cannot make it rain in Ethopia, you get the drill.

However, we do get the free-will to try to dodge the myriad of tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanoes, and all other things the planet throws at us - a planet deliberately engineered to do so apparently, what's not caring about that...? :pac:

Truley

ScumLord wrote: »

The God in the Christian bible ...

This is something that has bothered me for a while, if someone is a Christian ie. followes teaching and example of Christ. Then why do so many still use the Old Testament interpretation of God? Since the New Testament deals with Christ's interpretation, ie the more 'peace and love' variety. I know some Christian groups dismiss the OT outright, but most don't as far as I am aware. I vaguely recall asking my religion teacher about this once, she told me the Old Testament is there to provide a background for christians of what things where like before Jesus came along. I've never found out the 'official' reason though.

EDIT: Actually this is way off topic, I'll save it for another thread.

ScumLord

Jakkass wrote: »

I believe God gives life, and has the right to take it away. It is His world, we are merely in it, He has given us rules to follow so that we might life fulfilling lives. It is up to us if we want to follow them, and it is up to us if we wish to face the consequences.

That's childish IMO. That's a little like a parent thinking they own their child because they made it. It doesn't really make sense to create such an amazing universe make the most unique animal then tell it to act in the exact opposite way from the instincts you gave it and every other animal.

If he truly cared and respected us, he'd stay out of it and let nature run it's course no experiment should be messed with once it's in progress. The bible just makes it sound like he created everything just to have something that will cower at his feet and worship him, it's childish. The fact we haven't seen or heard from the god in the past few hundred years is a good indication that the god from the bible doesn't exist.

Trashbat

Bambi wrote: »

The fact you used the pound sign instead of a euro means you're probably some durty heretical prod :mad: It's only proper that il papa would wipe his swiss with pictures of the head of a false church :pac:

edit:
Somehow that pound sign has turned to a euro! Witchcraft!!

Pound sign? Perhaps your witchcraft version of technology (smartphone perhaps? the devil's work!) has distorted my post.

There's no such thing as a £500 note, and if there was the pope wouldnt use it because Euro notes cause less friction related injuries.

But seeing as you mention heretical prod, I have been told a number of time that seeing as I was never baptized, and don't believe in god, that i must be a prob. No amount of facepalm could ever express my feelings for that!

humanji

Jakkass wrote: »

If we get our standard of good and evil from God, how is God Himself going to be evil by His own standard? - The claim that God is even evil is extremely suspect to begin with.

Why should God not be held to his own standards?

prinz wrote: »

So can humans, and He gives us the opportunity to do these things for ourselves.

And that absolves him of responsibility?


Actually, back on topic (kind of), does door to door deliveries count as junk mail? Is mail defined as something that goes through the postal service or anything like that?

philologos

ScumLord wrote: »

If he truly cared and respected us, he'd stay out of it and let nature run it's course no experiment should be messed with once it's in progress. The bible just makes it sound like he created everything just to have something that will cower at his feet and worship him, it's childish. The fact we haven't seen or heard from the god in the past few hundred years is a good indication that the god from the bible doesn't exist.

That is the anti-thesis of what caring and respect would be. God staying out of his world that is. God created the world, so that we can reflect His will in the world, and that we can be a blessing to all creation. This is what I try to do as a Christian. Perhaps I do a terrible job of it. I believe that I am called to love and live a godly lifestyle, because Christ died for me first.

You claim that we haven't seen or heard from this God in a few hundred years. I would hold that God is as much a part of this world, as He was at the first stages of Creation. I would also hold that God is an intrinsic part of my life, and that I am His first and foremost above all other things. That's who I am.

That's pretty much where I stand, and I guess ultimately one can take it or leave it. I'm willing to take any amount of criticism for believing in this.

prinz

Truley wrote: »

This is something that has bothered me for a while, if someone is a Christian ie. followes teaching and example of Christ. Then why do so many still use the Old Testament interpretation of God? .

You actually have a point but slightly backwards. Most Christians don't use a OT interpretation of God, most non-religious folk use that interpretation of the Christian God in fact. It's easier to try to ridicule.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

However, we do get the free-will to try to dodge the myriad of tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanoes, and all other things the planet throws at us - a planet deliberately engineered to do so apparently, what's not caring about that...? :pac:

All those things which make the planet ideal for life to exist as we know it? Yep.

Ickle Magoo

prinz wrote: »

All those things which make the planet ideal for life to exist as we know it? Yep.

Oh please! And an omnipotent being that created the universe and all laws that govern it couldn't have deliberately created a planet that doesn't keep trying to kill it's inhabitants? I lol.

RobbieTheRobber

ScumLord wrote: »

The fact we haven't seen or heard from the god in the past few hundred years is a good indication that the god from the bible doesn't exist.

No God is just on a holiday at the moment i sent him a prayer the other day and got his out of office!

It said that if I need urgent assistance to perhaps contact the patron saint of whatever my problem is and that if that doesn't help God will get back to me when is back in heaven!

He also requested I slaughter a fattened calf, and say 22 hail marys.

ScumLord

Jakkass wrote: »

That is the anti-thesis of what caring and respect would be. God staying out of his world that is. God created the world, so that we can reflect His will in the world, and that we can be a blessing to all creation. This is what I try to do as a Christian. Perhaps I do a terrible job of it. I believe that I am called to love and live a godly lifestyle, because Christ died for me first.

You claim that we haven't seen or heard from this God in a few hundred years. I would hold that God is as much a part of this world, as He was at the first stages of Creation. I would also hold that God is an intrinsic part of my life, and that I am His first and foremost above all other things. That's who I am.

That's pretty much where I stand, and I guess ultimately one can take it or leave it. I'm willing to take any amount of criticism for believing in this.

I just think there's a huge conflict in saying god is caring but if he decides this or that he won't care about your opinion on the matter. I don't like the thought of something thinking their better than me (even if they are) it's arrogant.

God was all over the place in the bible appearing to people all over the place. That hasn't happened in front of a camera yet.

I'm open to the idea of a creator but not the one in the bible and not an ongoing active administrator. The universe is so well balanced that any outside interference could make a mess of everything.

prinz

humanji wrote: »

And that absolves him of responsibility?

Responsibility for what?

humanji wrote: »

Actually, back on topic (kind of), does door to door deliveries count as junk mail? Is mail defined as something that goes through the postal service or anything like that?

AFAIK yes. That is how various groups get around it. As someone pointed out earlier a sign should really read 'No unsolicited post' or something like that.

prinz

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Oh please! And an omnipotent being that created the universe and all laws that govern it couldn't have deliberately created a planet that doesn't keep trying to kill it's inhabitants? I lol.

I fear for your sense of humour if that makes you lol tbh. This is where it gets really interesting, people with no belief in an omnipotent being racking their brains trying to come up with arguments against it.