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Pope UK visit mega discussion thread.

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    #152
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    His point is that without absolutes in morality, there will be an eventual drift in society towards anything goes. In a society where anything goes, things that many find abhorrent, such as casual euthanasia of old people because they are not worth having around, could become legal and common. He sees moral relativism as a threat to the sanctity of human life.

    Maybe he is right, maybe not. Thats his fear though.

    So he's saying that without moral absolutes, abhorrent stuff like the widespread cover up of child sexual abuse may happen?

    We just can't let that happen. Where can I read more of his ideas?


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    #153
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    optogirl wrote: »
    ...Even in our own lifetime, we can recall how Britain and her leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live. I also recall the regime’s attitude to Christian pastors and religious who spoke the truth in love, opposed the Nazis and paid for that opposition with their lives. As we reflect on the sobering lessons of the atheist extremism of the twentieth century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus to a “reductive vision of the person and his destiny”
    Which is all very well but its at the end of the day its his daft opinion.

    Seeing as I presently see him as so far up his own ass with convenient "theories and thoughts" based on principles that are jokingly so out of date its laughable, and what he says - I couldn't give much credence to as such.

    Today he's raving a about a celeb culture - fair enough, its an opinion he might hold - but then he's basking in those now lining the streets screaming and waving at him while loving every minute of it - and its costing the English public 20 Million plus, for him to do so!
    That to me is sort of taking the piss. Give out about one thing and then do different. Aaa.. but then because he's a pope, well that must be different!


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    #154
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    prinz wrote: »
    FYP by the way.

    Perhaps you should study some history then, notably Nazi opinion towards anything uncontrolled by the State. 'Religion' was fine as long as it didn't conflict with Nazi ideals and towed the party line.

    Prinz, you are exactly like the others in this thread who can not back up what they are saying.

    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Ok, so why don't you enlighten us as to what Herr Ratzinger actually meant?
    prinz wrote: »
    What he meant is pretty clear when you read it actually........
    MrStuffins wrote: »
    I never said Extremeist!

    You seem to have your finger on the pulse, why don't you tell me your spin on what he said? Come on! You seem to be able to tell us what he DIDN'T say!

    Are you ignoring my posts?


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    #155
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    His argument, whether right or wrong is that if there is no guiding principle or higher authority, then any act, even ones we consider particularly heinous, can be justified by a secular society. This is because there are no absolutes in moral relativism.

    Name one act, any act, as heinous as you are able to imagine, that hasn't been comitted by religious people and was justified by their religion....


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    #156
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    i really expected a whole pile more from the AH "intellectuals" than to be falling for oppenheimers bait....


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    #157
    Thrill
    Registered Users Posts: 5,485 ✭✭✭Thrill


    Five Arrests Over Potential Threat To Pope

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Pope-Arrests-Five-Held-Over-Potential-Threat-To-Benedict-XVI/Article/201009315732353?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15732353_Pope_Arrests%3A_Five_Held_Over_Potential_Threat_To_Benedict_XVI_


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    #158
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    stimpson wrote: »
    Which the RCC were more than happy to do.

    Actually they weren't. It was a group of protestant churchs who formed the Reichskirche. If you study voting patterns and religious affiliations you'll find that Nazi support was traditionally much lower in predominantly Catholic areas of Germany. Also you could note the systematic attempt to destroy the Catholic Church in Poland in particular. Now you are going to say the RCC were more than happy to allow this to happen?
    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Prinz, you are exactly like the others in this thread who can not back up what they are saying.

    I have done. Your 'question' has been answered.


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    #159
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    The kind of "morality" Ratzinger wishes to preach is geared toward exerting total control over the herd. In that way it has more in common with fascism than atheism.

    It has nothing to do with right and wrong, merely to prolong the status quo for as long as he can. The more money Vatican Enterprises Inc. makes the better.

    F&ck him and the popemobile he rode in on.


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    #160
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    By the way, I can't wait to see the disappointment on the Pope's face when he finds out that Necking a Wee Tot is just a shot of whiskey in Scotland :eek:


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    #161
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    prinz wrote: »
    Are all atheists extremists now?
    Possibly only in that they are extremely aware of "a load of cobblers" when they hear or read it!


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    #162
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Its a key concept in the philosophy of a moral athiest.

    Ehm, no - it isn't. You just made that up.


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    #163
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    prinz wrote: »
    I have done. Your 'question' has been answered.

    By you going back and editing a post and adding what has already been said?

    No dice! You seem to convenienty ignore most of what The Pope said yesterday!


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    #164
    DOC09UNAM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭DOC09UNAM


    I guess i'm a nazi then, shít, time to get racist.


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    #165
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    At least I didn't join Hitler Youth. Your move Benedict


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    #166
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    By you going back and editing a post and adding what has already been said?
    No dice! You seem to convenienty ignore most of what The Pope said yesterday!

    You seem to be able to type basic English well enough. Why do you find it so difficult to read and comprehend it? I could try to take what the Pope said and break it down into words of no more than two syllables and spoon feed it to you, but I can't be bothered. If you want to know what the man said, read it.


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    #167
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Voltwad wrote: »
    At least I didn't join Hitler Youth. Your move Benedict

    Benedict didn't 'join' either. Any more attempts to be witty?


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    #168
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    prinz wrote: »
    You seem to be able to type basic English well enough. Why do you find it so difficult to read and comprehend it? I could try to take what the Pope said and break it down into words of no more than two syllables and spoon feed it to you, but I can't be bothered. If you want to know what the man said, read it.

    You see, i know what he said.

    Everyone else knows what he said.

    The biggest and best press associations know what he said.

    Yet you seem to think everyone else is wrong and you read something the rest of us didn't.

    If you are unable to substantiate this, then i will have to call Bullsh*t on your entire argument!


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    #169
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    Voltwad wrote: »
    At least I didn't join Hitler Youth. Your move Benedict

    :rolleyes:

    lol wonder what the hard man voltwad would have done growing up in nazi germany. stand up and say no i suppose?


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    #170
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    optogirl wrote: »
    Well I don't know how far he would have had to go - perhaps a powerpoint presentation with ATHEISTS = NAZIS
    Here is the actual transcript - the comparison is fairly clear
    Even in our own lifetime, we can recall how Britain and her leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live. I also recall the regime’s attitude to Christian pastors and religious who spoke the truth in love, opposed the Nazis and paid for that opposition with their lives. As we reflect on the sobering lessons of the atheist extremism of the twentieth century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus to a “reductive vision of the person and his destiny”

    Who did he mean there, Stalin?

    Because Hitler sure as hell was not out to remove god, he was convinced he was doing god's work. After all, he was a Roman Catholic, and the church had spent centuries in Europe prosecuting and killing Jews.
    As for pastors and religious people opposing the regime, they were opposing the Vatican in doing so as well.

    He shouldn't be leaning that far out of the window there.


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    #171
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Yet you seem to think everyone else is wrong and you read something the rest of us didn't.

    Yes, I read the word extemist. Unless all atheists are extremists without virtue I fail to see the issue. Then again I am not out to specifically pick holes to stir up a bit of controversy.


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    #172
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    prinz wrote: »


    As for the OP, the Pope did not compare atheists to the Nazis. Typical AH intentional word twisting. Getting farcical at this stage.


    I'm guilty of tabloisism. I admit it. Not sure why you're surprised though - this is After Hours - not the poxy Christianity forum, where you're supposed to fawn over the RCC deities.

    If you don't like it, then you don't have to read it or even post here, coz unlike the Church, you cannot go around AH telling people what they should & shouldn't do.

    Capiche?


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    #173
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    prinz wrote: »
    Yes, I read the word extemist. Unless all atheists are extremists without virtue I fail to see the issue. Then again I am not out to specifically pick holes to stir up a bit of controversy.

    :rolleyes:

    So, if the Pope said "All Jews are money hungry, hoarding vermin trying to take over the world" and all Jews ARE NOT money hungry, hoarding vermin trying to take over the world....... there wouldn't be an issue?

    You are hilarious!


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    #174
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Because Hitler sure as hell was not out to remove god, he was convinced he was doing god's work..

    Hitler was out to set himself up as god.


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    #175
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    DOC09UNAM wrote: »
    I guess i'm a nazi then, shít, time to get racist.

    Me too. It'll cut down on my post count certainly.


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    #176
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    I'm guilty of tabloisism. I admit it. Not sure why you're surprised though - this is After Hours - not the poxy Christianity forum, where you're supposed to fawn over the RCC deities.

    What RCC deity have I fawned over here? Good to know what AH represents then.
    starbelgrade wrote: »
    If you don't like it, then you don't have to read it or even post here, coz unlike the Church, you cannot go around AH telling people what they should & shouldn't do. Capiche?

    Sounds remarkably like extremism. Living up to expectations at least. The irony is also overwhelming.
    MrStuffins wrote: »
    :rolleyes:
    So, if the Pope said "All Jews are money hungry, hoarding vermin trying to take over the world" and all Jews ARE NOT money hungry, hoarding vermin trying to take over the world....... there wouldn't be an issue?
    You are hilarious!

    Worthless comparison. The Pope didn't say all atheists are extremists.


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    #177
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    prinz wrote: »
    Benedict didn't 'join' either.
    Actually, he did. There is many reports which I have come across as I read the Times alone, that state this.
    What's in dispute is if he joined (the Hitler youth) of his own volition or not.

    10th May 2009
    "The fact that he was a member of the Hitler Youth and later served in the German army is more than enough for a lone gunman to try to kill him," said a security source.

    But...
    The Vatican insists that Joseph Ratzinger joined the Hitler Youth only because it was compulsory

    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/world_news/article167443.ece


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    #178
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    prinz wrote: »
    Actually they weren't. It was a group of protestant churchs who formed the Reichskirche. If you study voting patterns and religious affiliations you'll find that Nazi support was traditionally much lower in predominantly Catholic areas of Germany. Also you could note the systematic attempt to destroy the Catholic Church in Poland in particular. Now you are going to say the RCC were more than happy to allow this to happen?

    Actually, no.
    The election results for ths NSDAP were weakest in the North-West of the country and strongest in the South and East, which were the main Catholic strongholds.
    Hitler saw himself in line with the Catholic faith, and so did many Catholics.

    "“I have been attacked because of my handling of the Jewish question. The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc., because it recognized the Jews for what they were. In the epoch of liberalism the danger was no longer recognized. I am moving back toward the time in which a fifteen-hundred-year-long tradition was implemented. I do not set race over religion, but I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the Church, and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions.”"


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    #179
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    prinz wrote: »
    Hitler was out to set himself up as god.

    Hitler was a Romen Catholic my friend. How could he set himself up as God if he believed in a creator?


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    #180
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    prinz wrote: »
    Hitler was out to set himself up as god.

    Interesting... where did he ever say that?


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    #181
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Interesting... where did he ever say that?

    He didn't, but for Prinz he didn't need to! Prinz can read things others can't and claim so without backing it up!


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