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Pope UK visit mega discussion thread.

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    #92
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    I'll leave you to your own prejudiced views of me. Maybe It is my opinion, maybe I'm the devils advocate. But theres not going to be much debate is there if everyone is in agreement and the most ridiculous and unfair remarks are allowed to pass as fact.

    I'm sorry, but seriously, you are the one doing that.

    EDIT: with things like this.
    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    His point is that without absolutes in morality, there will be an eventual drift in society towards anything goes. In a society where anything goes, things that many find abhorrent, such as casual euthanasia of old people because they are not worth having around, could become legal and common. He sees moral relativism as a threat to the sanctity of human life.


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    #93
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    But again, moral absolutism is not a monopoly of the Church. Many secular philosophies also take a morally absolutist stance, arguing that absolute laws of morality are inherent in the nature of human beings, the nature of life in general, or the universe itself.

    So whilst the Pope may have fears about this issue, his fears are largely unfounded.

    tl;dr / AH answer ; He's talking through his holy-o

    Are you saying that fairness is inherent in humans in general and not a learned concept?


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    #94
    Blackhorse Slim
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 1,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Blackhorse Slim


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    theres not going to be much debate is there if everyone is in agreement and the most ridiculous and unfair remarks are allowed to pass as fact.

    It's almost like being in church!


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    #95
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    I'll leave you to your own prejudiced views of me. Maybe It is my opinion, maybe I'm the devils advocate. But theres not going to be much debate is there if everyone is in agreement and the most ridiculous and unfair remarks are allowed to pass as fact.

    This is exactly how the thread started! A ridiculous remark being passed as fact.

    All you've done here is said "well, perhaps morals this and human rights that".

    You actually haven't said anything of substance yet.


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    #96
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    elviscostello wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but seriously, you are the one doing that.

    Where have I made one, please point it out.


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    #97
    quiz
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭quiz


    Its amazing that the head of a paedophile ring who is seemingly either going senile or just not that bright can command this much positive media attention. he missed his calling as a telesales operator or his speech writers are taking the proverbial...


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    #98
    Big Knox
    Registered Users Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭Big Knox


    I wouldn't be surprised if he was a celebrity judge on the ****ing x-factor tomorrow night. Clown!!


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    #99
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Where have I made one, please point it out.

    I've edited it in to the post you're talking about.


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    #100
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    elviscostello wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but seriously, you are the one doing that.

    EDIT: with things like this.

    Euthanasia was legal in Western Australia for a time, And forms of it are already legal in Europe. There have been a series of hard test cases in the UK to force the law through through precedent.


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    #101
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Euthanasia was legal in Western Australia for a time, And forms of it are already legal in Europe. There have been a series of hard test cases in the UK to force the law through through precedent.

    Pope Benedict, is that you?

    Because all i keep reading from you is "Things i believe are wrong are happening in the world........... it must be down to secularism".

    Either back up your claims that these things are happening because of Godlessness or stop talking!


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    #102
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Are you saying that fairness is inherent in humans in general and not a learned concept?

    I'm not saying that it is, or that it isn't. All I am saying is that morality, even absolute morality, can & does exist in secular societies.

    What the Pope is suggesting, is that without the guidance of the Church, that society would collapse into some kind of immoral hell hole. But this concept is clearly ludicrous & is a failed attempt at trying to do what the Catholic Church has done for centuries now.. which is to rule over people by playing on people's fears & by scaremongering.

    While this may still work on some people, I would imagine that the vast majority of people these days are too well informed & educated to actually believe in such obvious nonsense.


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    #103
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Euthanasia was legal in Western Australia for a time, And forms of it are already legal in Europe. There have been a series of hard test cases in the UK to force the law through through precedent.

    That's nice. But you're telling me that I'll soon be getting rid of my granny because I'm sick of her. I don't believe that will happen.



    my granny died of natural causes in 1998. I'm just using her here to make my point.


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    #104
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Pope Benedict, is that you?

    Because all i keep reading from you is "Things i believe are wrong are happening in the world........... it must be down to secularism".

    Either back up your claims that these things are happening because of Godlessness or stop talking!

    I don't necessarily want you to agree with him, I want you to see his point!


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    #105
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    elviscostello wrote: »
    That's nice. But you're telling me that I'll soon be getting rid of my granny because I'm sick of her. I don't believe that will happen.



    my granny died of natural causes in 1998. I'm just using her here to make my point.

    Well what if your granny was sitting on your potentially large inheritance and refusing to kick the bucket. What if you were of low moral character but perfectly within the law convinced your granny that her life wasn't worth living, she was a burden. But you offer her a dignified exit via lethal injection. The fear is that the vulnerable will be bullied into euthanasia because attitudes will see it to be acceptable.


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    #106
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    I don't necessarily want you to agree with him, I want you to see his point!

    Holy hell! Haven't you been reading the thread? Do you honestly think i've been replying in this thread without understanding his point?
    MrStuffins wrote: »
    And he's SERIOUSLY mistaken!
    MrStuffins wrote: »
    And, again, he is seriously mistaken!

    Can you honestly tell me that more heinous crimes are commited by secular society than in the name of a God? You're living on a cloud my friend!

    Come on, are you just playing the ignorant Catholic card or is this real?


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    #107
    fakeaccent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭fakeaccent


    DonJose wrote: »
    Pot > Kettle > Black

    I'm no fan of Ratzinger but that picture is edited to be really misleading

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JRkgseRT7NY/S5mNSQLWH_I/AAAAAAAABM8/xH3aC-hkkfY/s1600-h/georg+ratzinger+brother+pope+benedict+joseph%20ordination%20mass%20picture.jpg


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    #108
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Well what if your granny was sitting on your potentially large inheritance and refusing to kick the bucket. What if you were of low moral character but perfectly within the law convinced your granny that her life wasn't worth living, she was a burden. But you offer her a dignified exit via lethal injection. The fear is that the vulnerable will be bullied into euthanasia because attitudes will see it to be acceptable.

    You keep saying these things are presume that everything that is wrong with the world is due to Godlessness!

    Again, you're not saying anything of substance. Please start to sunstantiate what you're saying!


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    #109
    optogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭optogirl


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    His argument, whether right or wrong is that if there is no guiding principle or higher authority, then any act, even ones we consider particularly heinous, can be justified by a secular society. This is because there are no absolutes in moral relativism.


    That argument is of no value whatsoever - the belief that moral code is only applicable as long as we believe there is a punishment coming after death is ridiculous. I am an atheist and this does not mean I have a cavalier attitude to crime or morality. The Pope is the leader of an organisation that perpetrates outdated ideas and victimises homosexuals, women and children. He should be regarded as such. They have shown nothing but contempt for women and children and their dogma is based on a bible based on ancient myths and chinese whispers. The wealth they have is actually disgusting and I for one can't wait to see the Catholic church and all religion die. It's happening already, just taking a long time. They dress up in their robes and finery and live off donations from the poor they lord over, while denying their own wrong-doings and claiming to be representative of a mean and dissinterested god. It makes my blood boil.

    People are capable of living good and socially responsible lives without being told the consequence is a load of virgins in heaven or a roasting in hell.

    "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? "

    www.countmeout.ie


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    #110
    --Kaiser--
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    What a load of papal bull


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    #111
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    fakeaccent wrote: »
    I'm no fan of Ratzinger but that picture is edited to be really misleading

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JRkgseRT7NY/S5mNSQLWH_I/AAAAAAAABM8/xH3aC-hkkfY/s1600-h/georg+ratzinger+brother+pope+benedict+joseph%20ordination%20mass%20picture.jpg

    Unless someone in this thread created that picture i fail to see your point!


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    #112
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Well what if your granny was sitting on your potentially large inheritance and refusing to kick the bucket. What if you were of low moral character but perfectly within the law convinced your granny that her life wasn't worth living, she was a burden. But you offer her a dignified exit via lethal injection. The fear is that the vulnerable will be bullied into euthanasia because attitudes will see it to be acceptable.

    Yeah that is a sticky one. So, how is the pope going to stop me from finishing her off?


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    #113
    fakeaccent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭fakeaccent


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Unless someone in this thread created that picture i fail to see your point!

    Ah well, all I'm saying is that commenting 'pot-kettle-black' and putting up the misleadingly edited image as proof of this is hardly valid.

    This edited image has been doing the rounds on the internet as proof of Ratzinger as an adult doing the seig-heil, which it obviously is not


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    #114
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    His argument, whether right or wrong is that if there is no guiding principle or higher authority, then any act, even ones we consider particularly heinous, can be justified by a secular society.

    Historically, virtually any and every act has been justified by a religous society. I'd suggest his 'holiness' be a bit more honest in his thinking.

    For instance, when he talks about "the church" being slow to act on child abuse, why doesn't he say 'I, when in charge of clerical discipline for two decades or so, was slow to act'


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    #115
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    elviscostello wrote: »
    Yeah that is a sticky one. So, how is the pope going to stop me from finishing her off?

    World Tour? Lie about the Nazis and Atheism? Stop women becoming priests? Get rid of hemosexuals?


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    #116
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    fakeaccent wrote: »
    Ah well, all I'm saying is that commenting 'pot-kettle-black' and putting up the misleadingly edited image as proof of this is hardly valid.

    This edited image has been doing the rounds on the internet as proof of Ratzinger as an adult doing the seig-heil, which it obviously is not

    It's a fact though, is it not, thah he was a member of Nazi Youth?

    Anyway, this is besides the point!


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    #117
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    You keep saying these things are presume that everything that is wrong with the world is due to Godlessness!

    Again, you're not saying anything of substance. Please start to sunstantiate what you're saying!

    Not godlessness but the Popes argument is that its because of moral relativism.


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    #118
    testicle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭testicle


    Because you've always wondered....

    http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs657.snc4/61710_1529638714768_1048727523_1559158_921873_n.jpg


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    #119
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Not godlessness but the Popes argument is that its because of moral relativism.

    ...which presumes that secularism = moral relativism.


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    #120
    fakeaccent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭fakeaccent


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    It's a fact though, is it not, thah he was a member of Nazi Youth?

    Anyway, this is besides the point!

    No one is debating that he was a member as a child. Anyway, it might be beside the point to you, but I was answering DonJose...


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    #121
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Not godlessness but the Popes argument is that its because of moral relativism.

    Well, he is mistaken my friend!

    Any more unsubstantiated nonsense you'd like to throw into the thread? Maybe Volcanos are due to Godlessness?


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