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Pope UK visit mega discussion thread.

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13567…20

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    #62
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    The Vatican is not a member of the UN.

    You haven't addressed the point either... conveniently.

    Aaa... but he's being recognised as the head of a state within Europe!
    And is so for this visit alone!
    ...But hell, lets conveniently forget about that fact too!

    AND every other religious org has signed the declaration, regardless of they are a state or not!
    Such is the importance and respect for human rights they hold - well at least they do!

    O' and by the way, Rome/he refuses to sign also the European Convention on Human Rights!


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    #63
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    What dangers, less oppression, rape and war? Frankly progressive society and law deciding what is moral or not is far better than the same bloody thing but 2000 years out of date.

    His argument, whether right or wrong is that if there is no guiding principle or higher authority, then any act, even ones we consider particularly heinous, can be justified by a secular society. This is because there are no absolutes in moral relativism.


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    #64
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    His argument, whether right or wrong is that if there is no guiding principle or higher authority, then any act, even ones we consider particularly heinous, can be justified by a secular society. This is because there are no absolutes in moral relativism.

    And, again, he is seriously mistaken!

    Can you honestly tell me that more heinous crimes are commited by secular society than in the name of a God? You're living on a cloud my friend!


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    #65
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Wrong, its to warn of the dangers of an increasing secular society and moral relativism. He is trying to remind people in the UK that the foundation of human rights is that it was derived from the belief that all humans are made in the image of God.

    How many shades of complete & utter bollox are there in that post?


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    #66
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    And, again, he is seriously mistaken!

    Is he? We've have had a few examples of completely state enforced secularism, and in all of those regimes human rights were not respected.


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    #67
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    How many shades of complete & utter bollox are there in that post?

    Lord hear us.


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    #68
    Karl Hungus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    Catholic Church aids Nazis


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    #69
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Is he? We've have had a few examples of completely state enforced secularism, and in all of those regimes human rights were not respected.

    Can you refresh my memory?

    If you want to get into a battle on "This one was secularism.... this one was in the name of God"....... then you will lose my friend!


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    #70
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    How many shades of complete & utter bollox are there in that post?

    Whats bollocks about the post. That is the point of the visit. Address the issue.


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    #71
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Can you refresh my memory?

    If you want to get into a battle on "This one was secularism.... this one was in the name of God"....... then you will lose my friend!

    China


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    #72
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    His argument, whether right or wrong is that if there is no guiding principle or higher authority, then any act, even ones we consider particularly heinous, can be justified by a secular society.

    And any act - even the most heinous acts - can be forgiven under the rules of the Church. As long as you ask God for forgiveness, it doesn't matter what the f*ck you do.

    Rape, murder, child molestation... "Sorry God, I repent".

    "Ah, good lad. 10 Hail Marys. See you next confession.. just try & go easy on the child buggering."


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    #73
    galah
    Registered Users Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭galah


    so the pope would not have a problem with everyone converting to protestantism then, would he?

    They still believe in God...(or does it have to be the 'right' god?)

    still can't believe than anyone at all would take that dude seriously...


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    #74
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    And any act - even the most heinous acts - can be forgiven under the rules of the Church. As long as you ask God for forgiveness, it doesn't matter what the f*ck you do.

    Rape, murder, child molestation... "Sorry God, I repent".

    "Ah, good lad. 10 Hail Marys. See you next confession.. just try & go easy on the child buggering."

    The laws of the land were also derived from Christian teaching, your argument is facetious in the extreme.


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    #75
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    The laws of the land were also derived from Christian teaching, your argument is facetious in the extreme.

    What's your point.. that the Church has a monopoly on morality?


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    #76
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    China

    Lol!

    You think they Human Rights violations in China are all because non belief in your God? Do you convenienty forget about all the other states, particularly in Africa, where religion is a massive part of life but these violations take place?

    You really HAVE been brain-washed by Herr Ratinger haven't you?

    By the way, i have MANY Chinese friends. Chinese people are religious, trust me!


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    #77
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    What's your point.. that the Church has a monopoly on morality?

    They seriously seriously think so.

    It's scary!


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    #78
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    This, from a man who claims condoms contribute to the spread of AIDS. Who said that the ordination of women is equal to the rape of children. Who colluded in the hiding and denial of child-raping priests. And who reinstated an excommunicated holocaust-denying bishop. Yeah, I think the guy is a paragon of sense and intelligence.
    Nicely summed up.


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    #79
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Biggins wrote: »
    Nicely summed up.

    Yeah but he's the Pope... he's infallible :rolleyes:


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    #80
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Lol!

    You think they Human Rights violations in China are all because non belief in your God? Do you convenienty forget about all the other states, particularly in Africa, where religion is a massive part of life but these violations take place?

    You really HAVE been brain-washed by Herr Ratinger haven't you?

    By the way, i have MANY Chinese friends. Chinese people are religious, trust me!

    In my God? Nowhere did I state my own opinion. Read what I wrote, pay attention.


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    #81
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    In my God? Nowhere did I state my own opinion. Read what I wrote, pay attention.

    Well i can read between the lines Mr.Oppenheimer, i didn't need the Church to teach me that surprisingly!

    It also speaks volumes that it was THAT PART of my post you were able to argue with :)


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    #82
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    What's your point.. that the Church has a monopoly on morality?
    His point is that without absolutes in morality, there will be an eventual drift in society towards anything goes. In a society where anything goes, things that many find abhorrent, such as casual euthanasia of old people because they are not worth having around, could become legal and common. He sees moral relativism as a threat to the sanctity of human life.

    Maybe he is right, maybe not. Thats his fear though.


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    #83
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Well i can read between the lines Mr.Oppenheimer, i didn't need the Church to teach me that surprisingly!

    It also speaks volumes that it was THAT PART of my post you were able to argue with :)

    Can you? Well there is empty space between the lines, so whatever you're reading I didn't write them and its highly presumptuousness to know what my opinion is.


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    #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    This just in, Gary Glitter compares the Catholic Church to kiddy-fiddlers!

    Can just imagine the pope singing "do you wanna be in my gang!"


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    #85
    joseph brand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Originally Posted by Doug Stanhope
    I’ve heard so many comics doing bits about this new pope, “Oh isn’t it scary this new pope used to be a Nazi?” And you go, “Not when you look at their track record side by side.” The Nazi’s versus the Catholic church? The Nazi’s only lasted a dozen years and they got their ass handed to them in a high hat. Catholic church has been, has a far more prosperous and prestigious record of murder and torture and tyranny and oppression and nonsense. Not to mention the kid f*cking, and they’re still around and popular than ever. I’d be far more afraid to hear someone go, “You know that new Nazi…he used to be a pope!”

    My Dad always said that the nuns were worse than the Gestapo. The things they did to young children, and it lasted longer.
    My Ma is so blind to what the church has done, she can't say one bad word about them. She's one of those "Ahh leave them alone, they're not all bad".

    The heads of the church knew about the child raping, turned a blind eye and cleverly moved the pedophiles from parish to parish.

    The church is about money, control and more money!! Business is business. Isn't that what they say?? :mad:


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    #86
    bronte
    Registered Users Posts: 11,331 ✭✭✭✭bronte


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Did you see the ads on Sky News for it?

    "His first tour in over X years"

    "X million fans in the UK"

    They went on like he was a rock-star! WTF?

    It was the cheesiest thing i've ever seen!

    LOL!

    Let's see him sell out Wembley.


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    #87
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    His point is that without absolutes in morality, there will be an eventual drift in society towards anything goes. In a society where anything goes, things that many find abhorrent, such as casual euthanasia of old people because they are not worth having around, could become legal and common. He sees moral relativism as a threat to the sanctity of human life.

    Maybe he is right, maybe not. Thats his fear though.

    Me no understand. You were asked what was your point :confused:


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    #88
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    His point is that without absolutes in morality, there will be an eventual drift in society towards anything goes. In a society where anything goes, things that many find abhorrent, such as casual euthanasia of old people because they are not worth having around. He sees moral relativism as a threat to the sanctity of human life.

    Maybe he is right, maybe not. Thats his fear though.

    But again, moral absolutism is not a monopoly of the Church. Many secular philosophies also take a morally absolutist stance, arguing that absolute laws of morality are inherent in the nature of human beings, the nature of life in general, or the universe itself.

    So whilst the Pope may have fears about this issue, his fears are largely unfounded.

    tl;dr / AH answer ; He's talking through his holy-o


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    #89
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Can you? Well there is empty space between the lines, so whatever you're reading I didn't write them and its highly presumptuousness to know what my opinion is.

    Well everyone can read between the lines here Mr.Oppenheimer. You could always correct us by putting your cards on the table. But i think they are already in plain view.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Can just imagine the pope singing "do you wanna be in my gang!"

    I really really can!


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    #90
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    so.... it was a bad comparison.


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    #91
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Well everyone can read between the lines here Mr.Oppenheimer. You could always correct us by putting your cards on the table. But i think they are already in plain view.

    I'll leave you to your own prejudiced views of me. Maybe It is my opinion, maybe I'm the devils advocate. But theres not going to be much debate is there if everyone is in agreement and the most ridiculous and unfair remarks are allowed to pass as fact.


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