"We are a Catholic country"

Meeoow · 25-08-2010 01:50AM

language there boss, you are not a good catholic person.
i am only stating my point of view without bad language

Owwmykneecap · 25-08-2010 01:57AM

Grammar there, boss. The idea of bad language is as laughable as the great gig in the sky we're all going to. When we die.

Your POV is that if you don't like Catholicism mixing with schools, go buy your child an education? Will I get a rebate on my hard earned going to schools with a catholic priest on their board of management?
We I be assured my tax doesn't fund the idea that homosexuality, contraception, sex, abortion, euthanasia are wrong?

moonpurple · 25-08-2010 08:19AM

Truff Puff wrote: »

We are a catholic nation full stop. -pubs are closed good friday. primary, secondary and third level institutes for the most part do in fact have a catholic foundation

Archbishop of Dublin speaking in Rome yesterday
from frontpage www.irishtimes.com

“Many foreign observers still think that Ireland is a stronghold of traditional Catholicism. They are surprised to discover, as I was when I returned to Ireland (in 2004), that there are parishes in Dublin where Mass attendance on Sundays is less than 5 per cent, or even as low as 2 per cent in some cases.

Min · 25-08-2010 09:28AM

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

We ****ing pay for the schools.

We are paying for the state curriculum to be taught. The state would owe the church billions if the state was to pay for the schools.

Lumen · 25-08-2010 10:01AM

Min wrote: »

The state would owe the church billions if the state was to pay for the schools.

By "pay for" do you mean "purchase"? How much did the Church pay for those schools?

Fratton Fred · 25-08-2010 10:05AM

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

Grammar there, boss. The idea of bad language is as laughable as the great gig in the sky we're all going to. When we die.

Are you sure, really really sure?

What if you're wrong?

From what I see, being a Chirstian means that i you ae right, happys days (or death) if you are wrong, then tough ****.

If you are anti Christianity and you are wrong, you will be in the crap for a long long time.

Think of it a hedging your bets.

Pace2008 · 25-08-2010 10:09AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Are you sure, really really sure?

What if you're wrong?

From what I see, being a Chirstian means that i you ae right, happys days (or death) if you are wrong, then tough ****.

If you are anti Christianity and you are wrong, you will be in the crap for a long long time.

Think of it a hedging your bets.

When you're 99% sure that there is no afterlife, it seems pointless to live your life in a particular way "just in case".

And considering that the majority of lapsed and cultural Catholics live their lives the same way as I do, and ignore their Church's doctrine, they'll probably be taking the lift down with me even if they are right.

Fratton Fred · 25-08-2010 10:15AM

Pace2008 wrote: »

When you're 99% sure that there is no afterlife, it seems pointless to live your life in a particular way "just in case".

And considering that the majority of lapsed and cultural Catholics live their lives the same way as I do, and ignore their Church's doctrine, they'll probably be taking the lift down with me even if they are right.

Don't confuse Catholic (Or any Church's for that matter) doctrine with Christianity.

The basic teachings of Christianity are simple rules that the human race has based it's existence on. Basically respect and tolerance.

Lumen · 25-08-2010 10:17AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The basic teachings of Christianity are simple rules that the human race has based it's existence on. Basically respect and tolerance.

Apart from all the wars and stuff.

Dravokivich · 25-08-2010 10:20AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The basic teachings of Christianity are simple rules that the human race has based it's existence on. Basically respect and tolerance.

That's a popular missconception because we consider ourselves "Civilized."

Pace2008 · 25-08-2010 10:23AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Don't confuse Catholic (Or any Church's for that matter) doctrine with Christianity.

The basic teachings of Christianity are simple rules that the human race has based it's existence on. Basically respect and tolerance.

We're all off to heaven so, atheists included.

I mention Catholicism because it's the branch of Christianity with which most Christians in this country would identify.

25-08-2010 10:24AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Are you sure, really really sure?

What if you're wrong?

From what I see, being a Chirstian means that i you ae right, happys days (or death) if you are wrong, then tough ****.

If you are anti Christianity and you are wrong, you will be in the crap for a long long time.

Think of it a hedging your bets.

And what if it's actually Muslims that are right? Being Christian could be an affront to Allah, you'd be better off having lived as an athiest in that case. What if it's any one of a million other flavours of religion? What if it's a god who specifically wants people to think for themselves and not blindly follow a religion? What if god is actually a hedonist?

It's not hedging your bets, it's picking one thing that is no more likely than anything else, and has no greater chance of being right

philologos · 25-08-2010 10:27AM

I didn't think this discussion would lead to Pascal's Wager.

Fratton Fred · 25-08-2010 10:28AM

Lumen wrote: »

Apart from all the wars and stuff.

I haven't read the bibkle cover to cover, but I don't think it says in there "Go out and start a war", jkust as it doesn't say "Go out and abuse children".

28064212 wrote: »

And what if it's actually Muslims that are right? Being Christian could be an affront to Allah, you'd be better off having lived as an athiest in that case. What if it's any one of a million other flavours of religion? What if it's a god who specifically wants people to think for themselves and not blindly follow a religion? What if god is actually a hedonist?

It's not hedging your bets, it's picking one thing that is no more likely than anything else, and has no greater chance of being right

Islam and Chistianity aren't that different. it is people's interretation that varies.

Did you know Muslims believe in Jesus?

Dravokivich · 25-08-2010 10:30AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Islam and Chistianity aren't that different. it is people's interretation that varies.

Did you know Muslims believe in Jesus?

As a prophet, not a saviour...

Lumen · 25-08-2010 10:30AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I haven't read the bibkle cover to cover, but I don't think it says in there "Go out and start a war", jkust as it doesn't say "Go out and abuse children".

I was responding to the assertion that the human race has based its existence on respect and tolerance, which is obviously not true.

Truff Puff · 25-08-2010 10:33AM

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

We ****ing pay for the schools.

Whether or not these schools etc. are funded by us, one can't deny that these schools have a Catholic foundation. The people complaining about the Catholic Church should get their education in private schools, attend private hospitals and go to private colleges otherwise they are people who pretend to have moral beliefs or principles towards the religion, yet hypocritically they do

Pace2008 · 25-08-2010 10:35AM

Jakkass wrote: »

I didn't think this discussion would lead to Pascal's Wager.

Funnily enough, I'd wager you agree with Dawkins on this one in that there is little point in believing in God purely as an insurance plan, just for the sake of it.

sensibleken · 25-08-2010 10:37AM

Hail Satan!

Ush1 · 25-08-2010 10:39AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Islam and Chistianity aren't that different. it is people's interretation that varies.

Did you know Muslims believe in Jesus?

It's because they are both Abrahamic and come from Judaism and yes, they are very different.

Your logic of hedging your bets is completely flawed.

Dravokivich · 25-08-2010 10:41AM

sensibleken wrote: »

Hail Satin!

FYP

Lumen · 25-08-2010 10:49AM

Truff Puff wrote: »

Whether or not these schools etc. are funded by us, one can't deny that these schools have a Catholic foundation. The people complaining about the Catholic Church should get their education in private schools, attend private hospitals and go to private colleges otherwise they are people who pretend to have moral beliefs or principles towards the religion, yet hypocritically they do not actually possess, esp. these people by the action of attending these schools or sending their children to these schools etc. belie their stated beliefs.

You're arguing to exclude the children of all those who are not deeply faithful practicising Catholics from the state education system.

Those classrooms are going to look pretty empty...

philologos · 25-08-2010 10:52AM

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

We I be assured my tax doesn't fund the idea that homosexuality, contraception, sex, abortion, euthanasia are wrong?

Can I be assured that my taxes won't fund or support the legalisation of either abortion and / or euthanasia without bringing either before referendum?

In terms of social issues there are two sides to every objection.

Fratton Fred · 25-08-2010 11:01AM

Lumen wrote: »

I was responding to the assertion that the human race has based its existence on respect and tolerance, which is obviously not true.

but we know, as civilised human beings, that war is wrong. People may have used religion to justify wa, but we know they were wrong.

Ush1 wrote: »

It's because they are both Abrahamic and come from Judaism and yes, they are very different.

Your logic of hedging your bets is completely flawed.

Why? what is wrong with following a simple set of rules?

Ush1 · 25-08-2010 11:03AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why? what is wrong with following a simple set of rules?

Nothing.

What has that got to do with hedging your bets?

25-08-2010 11:05AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Islam and Chistianity aren't that different. it is people's interretation that varies.

Did you know Muslims believe in Jesus?

It may be people's interpretation that varies. It may be that one of those interpretations are right. It's impossible to tell. There is plenty of stuff in the Koran about how to live your life that directly contradicts how the Bible tells you to live your life. Any concept of basing current life decisions on possible afterlife reward makes no sense without actual knowledge of what is the 'right' decision (which is unachievable). Any decision is as likely to close as many doors as it opens

philologos · 25-08-2010 11:06AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why? what is wrong with following a simple set of rules?

Nothing, but punting on a religion you think might get you into the afterlife perhaps says something about your intention as to why you are picking it. I.E - It's inherently selfish.

Christianity is about a life-long commitment generally, and that's why people would want to be convinced of its truth before following it. In essence, people like to know what they believe for themselves rather than blindly following. This is reasonable no?

Fratton Fred · 25-08-2010 12:04PM

Jakkass wrote: »

Nothing, but punting on a religion you think might get you into the afterlife perhaps says something about your intention as to why you are picking it. I.E - It's inherently selfish.

Christianity is about a life-long commitment generally, and that's why people would want to be convinced of its truth before following it. In essence, people like to know what they believe for themselves rather than blindly following. This is reasonable no?

I wouldn't disagree with that.

Min · 25-08-2010 12:05PM

Lumen wrote: »

By "pay for" do you mean "purchase"? How much did the Church pay for those schools?

I didn't use the word pay, it was just in a reply to a person who did, but if someone says we for pay for the schools, then

The Catholic church set up Catholic schools, just like Protestants set up Protestant schools, there are also now at least one Islamic school. They all get money from the state once they teach the state curriculum.
The state never paid for these schools, religious communities have paid for faith schools by choice.

Dave! · 25-08-2010 12:30PM

If you're hedging your bets, why go with Christianity? Just because you happen to have been born into a country where Christianity is the popular religion?

Why don't you worship Zeus or Thor or Ba'al?

Also, what if the real God is more likely to be angry and vengeful if you worship other (false) gods, as opposed to none at all? Then staying impartial is surely a wiser strategy?

If you're hedging your bets, then big assumptions are required.

"We are a Catholic country"

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