Sub 2.30 marathon? Suits you sir!

smmoore79 · 07-01-2010 4:41pm #1

After reading so many other training logs, I reckon I should start a training log this year for my own personnal motivation and to keep tabs on how much im actually getting out there and running. A little background to myself - Ive been running 1 and a half years now, but have really only started to take it seriously since June 09. Last year has been good in terms of personal achievement, 1hr 2 mins pb for 10 miles and 1hr 21 mins pb for half marathon. Leading up to the marathon i was clocking up 30 mile weeks so i reckon there should be room for more improvement by upping the mileage in 2010. Was hoping to break 3 hours though knew deep down that there was not enough mileage under the belt to achieve this. Gave it a go anyways and was 10 minutes over which i was still over the moon with. Have been injured since the marathon but will soon be able to get goin again (15th Jan) and really cant wait!! Gona follow a Hal Higdon 10km advanced program to the letter and see how it goes. Only 8 days til im back, wish me luck!!!!

ronanmac · 07-01-2010 4:51pm

Best of luck, smmoore79, an impressive target! Hope you stay clear of injuries, there probably couldn't be a better time to be injured than now considering the conditions underfoot :mad:

smmoore79 · 07-01-2010 5:46pm

Yeah, at least im not the only one being frustrated at not running. Gona start off very easy before launching into the 10km program so next week some easy 3 mile runs to get back into it.

10 Jan Sunday 3 miles very easy
12 Jan Tuesday 3 miles very easy + some strength training
14 Jan Thursday 4 miles very easy + some strength training
16 Saturday 4 miles easy + some strength training

Monday 18th - begin proper training plan - Hal Higdon 10km advanced.

Hopefully, my foot and hip injuries to the left side have gone and no other problems occur.

gerard65 · 07-01-2010 7:10pm

Impressive times for 30 miles a week. Good luck with your 10k training.

village runner · 07-01-2010 9:31pm

Based on your half time with a higher mileage and no improvement you would run 2.55 comfortably.....
If you get injured alot you could run/cycle etc........I done a couple of 50 mile bike rides last year and i swear it stood to me. Best of luck.

misty floyd · 07-01-2010 9:43pm

Best of luck with the log and sub 3. I like the sub 3 attempt logs.

smmoore79 · 08-01-2010 10:41am

This is the first time ive been injured so depending on how i get on with light running this Sunday (weather permitting) I may take up the cycling to compliment the running. Cycled out to Naas from Dublin and then back the next day last December and that was tough as hell! A very hilly route too. Dublin Oct 2010 will be the big one for me so for the first 6 months this year I'll try to enter at least 1 small distance race a month (BHAA's maybe) and then hit the Adidas series. That should lead up nicely to the marathon. Followed the intermediate marathon plan last year too, only half sticking to the plan so this year will focus on the advanced plan and stick to it as much as possible...

Speedy44 · 08-01-2010 12:26pm

smmoore79 wrote: »

Yeah, at least im not the only one being frustrated at not running. Gona start off very easy before launching into the 10km program so next week some easy 3 mile runs to get back into it.

10 Jan Sunday 3 miles very easy
12 Jan Tuesday 3 miles very easy + some strength training
14 Jan Thursday 4 miles very easy + some strength training
16 Saturday 4 miles easy + some strength training

Monday 18th - begin proper training plan - Hal Higdon 10km advanced.

Hopefully, my foot and hip injuries to the left side have gone and no other problems occur.

Best of luck with the training, just a word of warning, going from 16mls/wk to an advanced program (not actually sure what that entails) may be a bot of a jump, especially if you have been out for a long time without any type of conditioning work. Whilst you may not have to stick to the 10% rule to the letter, it may be safer to gradually increase the mileage over at least a month or so. I understand you frustration, its bad enough not been able to run without reading all the great logs on here (:D), but Dublin is a long way off and you will also have lots of time to get in shape for a decent 10K this summer.
Its better to ease into it than risk blowing up again and setting yourself back further.

smmoore79 · 11-01-2010 10:27am

smmoore79 wrote: »

Yeah, at least im not the only one being frustrated at not running. Gona start off very easy before launching into the 10km program so next week some easy 3 mile runs to get back into it.

10 Jan Sunday 3 miles very easy
12 Jan Tuesday 3 miles very easy + some strength training
14 Jan Thursday 4 miles very easy + some strength training
16 Saturday 4 miles easy + some strength training

Monday 18th - begin proper training plan - Hal Higdon 10km advanced.

Hopefully, my foot and hip injuries to the left side have gone and no other problems occur.

3 miles done and dusted on Sunday and have to say that was tough. Found it difficult to catch my breath which is probably to do with the cold air. Slippy in parts too. Almost stopped after 15 mins, but had to push on or id be p!ssed off for the rest of the day. Am a long way off what i was in October but a few more runs this week will help to catch up a little. At least i know that the worst run is over and it can only get easier, right?!

smmoore79 · 11-01-2010 4:50pm

smmoore79 wrote: »

Yeah, at least im not the only one being frustrated at not running. Gona start off very easy before launching into the 10km program so next week some easy 3 mile runs to get back into it.

10 Jan Sunday 3 miles very easy
12 Jan Tuesday 3 miles very easy + some strength training
14 Jan Thursday 4 miles very easy + some strength training
16 Saturday 4 miles easy + some strength training

Monday 18th - begin proper training plan - Hal Higdon 10km advanced.

Hopefully, my foot and hip injuries to the left side have gone and no other problems occur.

Gona do the BHAA XC in Tymon this Saturday instead of the 4m easy. It happens to be 4m too. In my present state, id be very happy with sub 30 mins :rolleyes:

Krusty_Clown · 11-01-2010 5:55pm

I'd be delighted with those 10 mile and half marathon times, and I'm only 51 seconds from a sub-3. Don't think you'll have much to do, once you get the mileage up.

I recently followed the HH advanced 10k program, and found it very beneficial, though the 400 intervals were tough. Made it easy enough to switch to P&D advanced marathon training immediately afterwards. Never got to put the HH program to the test, though I reckon I would've taken a small chunk off my 10k pb. Best of luck.

smmoore79 · 11-01-2010 6:38pm

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'd be delighted with those 10 mile and half marathon times, and I'm only 51 seconds from a sub-3. Don't think you'll have much to do, once you get the mileage up.

I recently followed the HH advanced 10k program, and found it very beneficial, though the 400 intervals were tough. Made it easy enough to switch to P&D advanced marathon training immediately afterwards. Never got to put the HH program to the test, though I reckon I would've taken a small chunk off my 10k pb. Best of luck.

At what pace (mins per mile) would you have done the intervals? Intervals are something i know little about. When training for last years marathon, i did 30 seconds jog, 30 second light run, 30 second slightly faster than race pace and 30 seconds almost sprint. and then back to the start. I would have done this 5/6 times. I probably went too fast and at too short a distance..

smmoore79 · 11-01-2010 6:43pm

Speedy44 wrote: »

Best of luck with the training, just a word of warning, going from 16mls/wk to an advanced program (not actually sure what that entails) may be a bot of a jump, especially if you have been out for a long time without any type of conditioning work. Whilst you may not have to stick to the 10% rule to the letter, it may be safer to gradually increase the mileage over at least a month or so. I understand you frustration, its bad enough not been able to run without reading all the great logs on here (:D), but Dublin is a long way off and you will also have lots of time to get in shape for a decent 10K this summer.
Its better to ease into it than risk blowing up again and setting yourself back further.

Can understand your advice, but at the same time Im raring to go!! hopefully ignoring common sense doesnt back fire on me :rolleyes:

Did my first 3 miles on Sunday and felt no side effects barring fatigue from being a little rusty..

smmoore79 · 12-01-2010 5:53pm

smmoore79 wrote: »

Yeah, at least im not the only one being frustrated at not running. Gona start off very easy before launching into the 10km program so next week some easy 3 mile runs to get back into it.

10 Jan Sunday 3 miles very easy
12 Jan Tuesday 3 miles very easy + some strength training
14 Jan Thursday 4 miles very easy + some strength training
16 Saturday 4 miles easy + some strength training

Monday 18th - begin proper training plan - Hal Higdon 10km advanced.

Hopefully, my foot and hip injuries to the left side have gone and no other problems occur.

Looking forward to this evening, its been a while since i ran in the dark. Some squat's and other strength excercises when i get back too.

smmoore79 · 13-01-2010 10:34am

smmoore79 wrote: »

Yeah, at least im not the only one being frustrated at not running. Gona start off very easy before launching into the 10km program so next week some easy 3 mile runs to get back into it.

10 Jan Sunday 3 miles very easy
12 Jan Tuesday 3 miles very easy + some strength training
14 Jan Thursday 4 miles very easy + some strength training
16 Saturday 4 miles easy + some strength training

Monday 18th - begin proper training plan - Hal Higdon 10km advanced.

Hopefully, my foot and hip injuries to the left side have gone and no other problems occur.

Second run since i got back and glad to report no injuries. Did a nice 3 miles in the rain around Ballsbridge area and it seemed a fair bit easier than my maiden run last Sunday. Then 30 mins of core conditioning. Feel much better for it. Next up, a 4 miler on thursday followed by the BHAA 4mile XC this Saturday.

Krusty_Clown · 13-01-2010 4:39pm

smmoore79 wrote: »

At what pace (mins per mile) would you have done the intervals? Intervals are something i know little about. When training for last years marathon, i did 30 seconds jog, 30 second light run, 30 second slightly faster than race pace and 30 seconds almost sprint. and then back to the start. I would have done this 5/6 times. I probably went too fast and at too short a distance..

Sorry, meant to reply earlier but my 'net access died (damn you vodafone!). If I remember correctly, the program calls for 400s at 1 mile pace. Based on my target marathon time, the McMillan equivalent for a mile was around 5:20, so this is around the pace I ran them at (and approximately the pace you should be doing them at for a sub-3, if you're planning on following HH's program to the letter). I don't know that I could run a mile in 5:20, but I have previously found using Mcmillan's equivalent paces based on my target time (rather than current actual time) beneficial (I have also never run a mile flat out). It pushes me that little bit harder, and I tend to reap the benefits towards the end of the training cycle.

Tergat (I think) previously posted that 400m intervals at mile pace aren't terribly useful for longer distance training, but they were in the program, so I followed it mostly to the bottom line.

smmoore79 · 13-01-2010 5:53pm

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Sorry, meant to reply earlier but my 'net access died (damn you vodafone!). If I remember correctly, the program calls for 400s at 1 mile pace. Based on my target marathon time, the McMillan equivalent for a mile was around 5:20, so this is around the pace I ran them at (and approximately the pace you should be doing them at for a sub-3, if you're planning on following HH's program to the letter). I don't know that I could run a mile in 5:20, but I have previously found using Mcmillan's equivalent paces based on my target time (rather than current actual time) beneficial (I have also never run a mile flat out). It pushes me that little bit harder, and I tend to reap the benefits towards the end of the training cycle.

Tergat (I think) previously posted that 400m intervals at mile pace aren't terribly useful for longer distance training, but they were in the program, so I followed it mostly to the bottom line.

Cheers for the advice. Based on McMillan, a 3 hr marathon would require 1 mile pace at 5 mins 20 secs. But my target 10km time of 35 mins would suggest a 1 mile time of 4 mins 50 secs. hmm, might toss a coin for that one to see which pace i run

Though seen as im gonna start the 10km training plan next week, i should probably go with the 1 mile time based on 10km..

ecoli · 13-01-2010 5:58pm

smmoore79 wrote: »

Cheers for the advice. Based on McMillan, a 3 hr marathon would require 1 mile pace at 5 mins 20 secs. But my target 10km time of 35 mins would suggest a 1 mile time of 4 mins 50 secs. hmm, might toss a coin for that one to see which pace i run Though seen as im gonna start the 10km training plan next week, i should probably go with the 1 mile time based on 10km..

Think of it logically you are building its early days in your training how much more is 400m in 72 rather than 80s you are building your aerobic base and as such should not be training so early at anaerobic levels

Here is an example from my base building phase from the summer (note that i am aiming for 75 half which would equate to around 2.45-2.50) this is just to show you that the quicker paces are not as important so early in your trainin

ecoli wrote: »

Week 3 Day 4

3 mile warm up, 2x(10 x 400m) 2 min cycles with jog 400m after 1st Set
target time 78 - 80 with 40-42 recovery + 6x120m over hurdles

times: Set 1 Set 2
78 78
79 78
80 80
80 79
81* 80
78 80
78 79
79 79
78 78
80 81*

Legs were fairly tight to begin from hurde drills last night so i didnt know how i was gonna fair up but as happy with how they went two slip ups but more a lapse of concentration rather than tiredness. Was a nice way to get back into sessions though i have a feeling that my legs will suffer tommorow but all in all was very happy

smmoore79 · 13-01-2010 6:42pm

ecoli wrote: »

Think of it logically you are building its early days in your training how much more is 400m in 72 rather than 80s you are building your aerobic base and as such should not be training so early at anaerobic levels

Here is an example from my base building phase from the summer (note that i am aiming for 75 half which would equate to around 2.45-2.50) this is just to show you that the quicker paces are not as important so early in your trainin

Yeah, i probably shouldnt be killing myself this early on. if I start the plan next Monday, it'll start off with 3 miles easy which is grand and then tuesday will be 6 x 400m mile pace. Might just keep the 400's into the 80's and see how i feel.

ecoli · 13-01-2010 6:55pm

smmoore79 wrote: »

Yeah, i probably shouldnt be killing myself this early on. if I start the plan next Monday, it'll start off with 3 miles easy which is grand and then tuesday will be 6 x 400m mile pace. Might just keep the 400's into the 80's and see how i feel.

At the end of the day if it is too easy you can change paces its early days trial and error is the best way as you will learn how your body works and what works for you and what doesnt.
Best of luck with it

smmoore79 · 14-01-2010 4:35pm

ecoli wrote: »

At the end of the day if it is too easy you can change paces its early days trial and error is the best way as you will learn how your body works and what works for you and what doesnt.
Best of luck with it

Cheers for the advice. The only way i'll find out is gettin out there next week..

smmoore79 · 14-01-2010 4:37pm

smmoore79 wrote: »

Yeah, at least im not the only one being frustrated at not running. Gona start off very easy before launching into the 10km program so next week some easy 3 mile runs to get back into it.

10 Jan Sunday 3 miles very easy
12 Jan Tuesday 3 miles very easy + some strength training
14 Jan Thursday 4 miles very easy + some strength training
16 Saturday 4 miles easy + some strength training

Monday 18th - begin proper training plan - Hal Higdon 10km advanced.

Hopefully, my foot and hip injuries to the left side have gone and no other problems occur.

Uppin it to 4 easy miles tonight. And some core conditioning later. Cant wait to get outta this office!

smmoore79 · 15-01-2010 10:33am

An enjoyable 4 mile run last night (compared to my 2 other runs that is). Felt good for the fist 2 miles and going at a reasonable pace. Come mile 3 though i was finding it hard to catch my breath. Still have to get the chest used to breathing properly while running. As a result, was making very stange breathing groans which made a few passers by stare oddly at me! The muscles felt ok though which is a good sign. Come mile 4 i had to slow slightly just to get the breathing going again. Was glad when i finished, and happy i got out and did it. Timed it just for curiosity and got 25 mins 40 secs. Next up is the 4 mile BHAA XC this Saturday. Its probably a bit early to run in competitive races so i'll use it as training and not push it too hard. Having said that, when the day comes, I'll probably be running like a mad man :rolleyes:

smmoore79 · 18-01-2010 10:32am

smmoore79 wrote: »

Yeah, at least im not the only one being frustrated at not running. Gona start off very easy before launching into the 10km program so next week some easy 3 mile runs to get back into it.

10 Jan Sunday 3 miles very easy
12 Jan Tuesday 3 miles very easy + some strength training
14 Jan Thursday 4 miles very easy + some strength training
16 Saturday 4 miles easy + some strength training

Monday 18th - begin proper training plan - Hal Higdon 10km advanced.

Hopefully, my foot and hip injuries to the left side have gone and no other problems occur.

Date : Sat 18th, BHAA 4mile - my maiden voyage into cross country!!

After finishing this, I deffo have a new found respect for cross country! Assumed that my x country time would be my road time plus a minute...wrong! It started off well enough for the first mile. I was flyin. But then things started to go a little pear shaped. The mud was starting to badly tire the legs and i still couldnt catch my breath. My lack of fitness from the injury lay off was starting to show. From the halfway point, perople were starting to pass me by which was a little demoralising, but kept trudging on regardless, through the endless mud of Tymon park. The finish line couldnt come fast enough, whilst i was cursing out loud and promising never to run x country again! Eventually the finish line did come, and with it relief! Did it in 29 mins in the end so was happy with getting under 30. The main lesson learnt was to buy x country spikes! i noticed most of the field had them and i was slipping around like an idiot.

This week will be the start of my 10km program and on Saturday another BHAA cross country 5 mile. As the song goes 'things can only get better', right?! Will put up my plan later this morning..

smmoore79 · 18-01-2010 12:33pm

Week 1 of advanced 10km training below. Starts off easy enough with a 3 miler tonight at a nice easy pace. The 1 exception is Saturday. Will do the next BHAA 5 mile cross country instead. Was supposed to so 5miles run with 2 miles 10km race pace. So not too different. Any thoughts on this plan? Too much too soon or manageable enough?

3 m run +
strength
30 min tempo
6 x 400 mile pace
3 m run +
strength
Rest or 3 m
5 m total, 2 pace
6 m run

smmoore79 · 19-01-2010 12:46pm

smmoore79 wrote: »

Week 1 of advanced 10km training below. Starts off easy enough with a 3 miler tonight at a nice easy pace. The 1 exception is Saturday. Will do the next BHAA 5 mile cross country instead. Was supposed to so 5miles run with 2 miles 10km race pace. So not too different. Any thoughts on this plan? Too much too soon or manageable enough?
3 m run +
strength
30 min tempo
6 x 400 mile pace
3 m run +
strength
Rest or 3 m
5 m total, 2 pace

6 m run

3 miles done last night with a bit of strength training after. Slowly getting there, the run last night felt easier than any of my runs last week. Tonight Im down for 30 mins tempo. Have never done a tempo run before so going by what Hal Higdon says, I start of slowly, building up to almost 10 km pace for 10 mins and back down again finishing slowly.

Krusty_Clown · 19-01-2010 3:14pm

smmoore79 wrote: »

Any thoughts on this plan? Too much too soon or manageable enough?

The real strain will definitely be the 6x400 at mile pace (4:50/mile?), on the back of returning from an injury lay-off. The rest of the week should be pretty straightforward. Not sure what the injury was, but best to air on the side of caution if you notice any suggestions of the original problem.

smmoore79 · 19-01-2010 4:56pm

Yep, I agree that the 6 x 400's will be the toughest. I wouldnt be the biggest fan of speed reps. Im assuming the pace should be just less than all out sprint?

Krusty_Clown · 19-01-2010 5:44pm

4:50/mile would be pretty close to a sprint for me! It's the equivalent of 20kms/hour. If you have a GPS watch (e.g. Garmin Forerunner) it's pretty easy to manage by setting up an advanced program. Alternatively, you could crank up a treadmill to 20km/hour and do your 400m intervals (at an incline of 1%).
Otherwise, if you have a track available, you should be trying to hit a lap in 1:12 (if my dodgy maths are correct).

smmoore79 · 19-01-2010 6:29pm

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

4:50/mile would be pretty close to a sprint for me! It's the equivalent of 20kms/hour. If you have a GPS watch (e.g. Garmin Forerunner) it's pretty easy to manage by setting up an advanced program. Alternatively, you could crank up a treadmill to 20km/hour and do your 400m intervals (at an incline of 1%).
Otherwise, if you have a track available, you should be trying to hit a lap in 1:12 (if my dodgy maths are correct).

Ah i see! thanks for the advice. unfortunately i dont have a garmin. just my old stop watch. I plan on doing this on Sandymount beach wednesday evening. Im old school :rolleyes: Have g-pedometered 400m roughly.. Gona jog the distance first and see how much extra speed i need for doin 400m in 80 secs roughly..

smmoore79 · 20-01-2010 12:43pm

smmoore79 wrote: »

Week 1 of advanced 10km training below. Starts off easy enough with a 3 miler tonight at a nice easy pace. The 1 exception is Saturday. Will do the next BHAA 5 mile cross country instead. Was supposed to so 5miles run with 2 miles 10km race pace. So not too different. Any thoughts on this plan? Too much too soon or manageable enough?
3 m run + strength
30 min tempo
6 x 400 mile pace
3 m run + strength
Rest or 3 m
5m cross country BHAA

6 m run

30 min tempo went ok. started slow enough. By the time i got to Sandymount, the wind had picked up seriously and i was running at a pace normally equivelant to fast walking! Afer 16 mins turned around and upped the pace to near race pace. With the wind behind me I was like Linford Chrisie! gradually slowed it down again afetr 25 mins and back home. All in all, was pleased with the run. Next up is the 6 x 400 at mile pace. Will aim for 80 seconds per 400m and see how that feels. If i feel good, I'll up the pace; if i feel bad, I'll lower the pace!

Sub 2.30 marathon? Suits you sir!

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