Sub 2.30 marathon? Suits you sir!

Killerz

Congrats on the 5 mile pb-thats great running. I'll have to read the log in more detail as I am now gunning for sub3 in September (off a previous PB of 3:11).

smmoore79

Killerz wrote: »

Congrats on the 5 mile pb-thats great running. I'll have to read the log in more detail as I am now gunning for sub3 in September (off a previous PB of 3:11).

Thanks. Its always nice to get a 5m pb! Funnily enough my old marathon time is 3hrs 10 mins and now i'll be aiming for sub 3 in Oct, not too dissimilar to yourself....

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks plan, again based on week 1 of the P & D advanced 18 week 55 mile program...

Mon Rest
Tue 5 miles (BHAA race in Dunboyne) sub 6 minute pace hopefully
Wed Rest
Thur 8 miles aerobic - 7 min 30 sec pace
Fri Rest
Sat 3 miles recovery - 8 minute pace
Sun 10 miles LSR at 7 minute pace

Thur 8 miles aerobic, didnt feel too tired for this one. Maybe the body is acclimatising to longish runs. Heat was a killer, but manageable. Got a bit eager in the last 2 miles and started to run 100 metres approx at 5 mile pace twice within each mile. Then met up with work mates for footy training. When i got there, they were starting sprints. (100 metres gradual build up to sprint and build down). Felt really good to let go and run fast after 8 miles at a steady pace! The lads were well impressed with my speed. Then on to football on grass. A tiny pitch marked out, so we focused on passing and keeping the ball. A good match for 45 mins. Acquited myself well and was full of energy. Was tired but happy after, a lot of excercise done today...

1 6 59
2 7 22
3 7 42
4 7 13
5 7 22
6 7 20
7 6 58
8 6 56

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks plan, again based on week 1 of the P & D advanced 18 week 55 mile program...

Mon Rest
Tue 5 miles (BHAA race in Dunboyne) sub 6 minute pace hopefully
Wed Rest
Thur 8 miles aerobic - 7 min 30 sec pace
Fri Rest
Sat 3 miles recovery - 8 minute pace
Sun 10 miles LSR at 7 minute pace

Sat 5th 3 miles at 8 min pace, not much else to report.
Sun 6th 10.23 miles at 7 min pace. Was half thinkin of not goin out for this as the weather was pretty lousy. Dragged myself out the door. First 4 miles felt a bit uncomfortable on the calves so i tried to put that to the back of my head and plough on. The run covered a nice mix of road, grass and a bit of sand. The longer the run went on, the better i felt. Garmin recorded the following;
Mile1 7 mins
Mile 2 6 mins 49 secs
Mile 3 7 mins 6 secs
Mile 4 6 mins 56 secs
Mile 5 6 mins 57 secs
Mile 6 6 mins 59 secs
Mile 7 6 mins 44 secs
Mile 8 6 mins 51 secs
Mile 9 6 mins 54 secs
Mile 10 6 mins 45 secs
0.23 miles averaged at 7.13 pace

Overall i did 10.23 miles in 1 hr 10 secs. Happy enough with that and the weeks work overall. Total miles this week was 26 miles, most ive ran in a week this year.

smmoore79

This weeks training;

Mon 7th Rest
Tue 8th 7 miles tempo(3 miles at 6 min pace)
Wed 9th rest
Thur 10th 8 miles at 7 min 20-30 sec pace
Fri 11th Rest
Sat 12th 2 x 1hr footy matches
Sun 13th 11 miles at 7 min pace

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks training;

Mon 7th Rest
Tue 8th 7 miles tempo(3 miles at 6 min pace)
Wed 9th rest
Thur 10th 8 miles at 7 min 20-30 sec pace
Fri 11th Rest
Sat 12th 2 x 1hr footy matches
Sun 13th 11 miles at 7 min pace

Tue 7.42 miles tempo (3m at 6 min pace)
Had a brutal sleep last night and was like a zombie all day at work. Got out and did my run anyway though mentally my head was never in it. As a result i struggled esp during my 6 minute mile runs. Was hoping to get them just under 6 but all were just over 6. Still i got through the tempo, its better than not doin anything i suppose!

Mile1 6 40
Mile2 6 54
Mile3 6 40
Mile4 6 03
Mile5 6 07
Mile6 6 08
Mile7 7 09
0.42Miles average at 7 min mile pace

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks training;

Mon 7th Rest
Tue 8th 7 miles tempo(3 miles at 6 min pace)
Wed 9th rest
Thur 10th 8 miles at 7 min 20-30 sec pace
Fri 11th Rest
Sat 12th 2 x 1hr footy matches
Sun 13th 11 miles at 7 min pace

Thur 8.2 miles aerobic
3 bad nights sleep in a row and Im a bit zombie like! Not the greatest ever run yesterday but got through it none the less; 1 mile beachand 50 50 grass/road

Mile1 6 56
Mile2 7 31
Mile3 7 16
Mile4 7 21
Mile5 7 17
Mile6 7 14
Mile7 7 11
Mile8 7 11
0.2 miles at average 6 35

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks training;

Mon 7th Rest
Tue 8th 7 miles tempo(3 miles at 6 min pace)
Wed 9th rest
Thur 10th 8 miles at 7 min 20-30 sec pace
Fri 11th Rest
Sat 12th 2 x 1hr footy matches
Sun 13th 11 miles at 7 min pace

Sat 12th. 2 x 1hr footy matches.

A completely different type of work out to the training i normally do. Our Irish office were playing an 11 a side tournament with the Lux and German offices. Was playing rightback in a 3 5 2 formation. My job was to get the ball to the right winger and keep running supporting attack on the wing. It really was like an intense interval work out in unbelievable heat! Must have covered 15 miles!! we won both matches 3 nil and 4 nil and the others were impressed by the amount i ran (was called the duracel bunny!!!)

Unfortunately went on a savage bender after and am in bad shape today. Suppose letting off a bit of steam once in a while isnt a bad thing! Was meant to do 11 miles but will give it a miss due to my condition.

Starting my 18 week marathon plan officially tomorrow so looking forward to that. All excited now :rolleyes: Will somehow have to include BHAA races and Adidas series into my plan aswell..

smmoore79

PD 55 miles 18 week program.

And so it begins! Its a week early but im starting my 18 week training plan to crack sub 3 hours. Will be away for a week in July so figure i wont get much training then. The longest ive run this year was 10 miles a couple of weeks ago. Im hoping the step up in training wont be that bad :eek: Only 1 way to find out

Mon 14th Rest!
Tue 15th 8 miles(4 at 6 min pace)
Wed 16th Rest
Thur 17th 9 miles at 7.4 min pace
Fri 18th Rest
Sat 19th 4 miles at 8 min pace
Sun 20th 12 miles at 7 min pace

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

PD 55 miles 18 week program.

Mon 14th Rest!
Tue 15th 8 miles(4 at 6 min pace)
Wed 16th Rest
Thur 17th 9 miles at 7.4 min pace
Fri 18th Rest
Sat 19th 4 miles at 8 min pace
Sun 20th 12 miles at 7 min pace

Tue 15th (8 miles w 4 at 6 min pace)

Well that was an absolute killer!! I was still stiff all over from 2 hours footy on Saturday so thought id loosen up on the run. if anything this hindered the run as i coulnt get my normal stride going. On top of that the sun was blistering down and i hate running in the sun! The 4 miles tempo at 6 min miles was so tough, i really struggled out there and thought about quitting at 2 miles of that pace. Squeezed another mile out and then said i may as well get in a 4th mile! The last 2 miles at easy pace dragged on. I got the worst heart burn ever and felt very faint coz id drank all my water over the Tempo part! recorded the following splits;

1 6 55
2 6 59
3 6 20
4 6 18
5 6 23
6 6 28
7 7 38
8 7 49

Not the best start to my marathon training, though the splits were actually ok considering the heat and the lactic acid still in my legs from the weekend. The only concern is how exhausted i was doing this and my energy levels being so low for the last 2 'easy' miles.

tunguska

hi smmoore79, just saw your target on the Dublin Marathon thread. 2:55. Best of luck.
Whats your race schedule between now and then?

tisnotover

tunguska wrote: »

hi smmoore79, just saw your target on the Dublin Marathon thread. 2:55. Best of luck.
Whats your race schedule between now and then?

Well done smmoore for nailing down your target time. Based on your recent 5mile times 2:55 should be well within ya, after the specific marathon training that you are now starting.

Looking forward to following the log over the next few months.
Best of luck !

smmoore79

tunguska wrote: »

hi smmoore79, just saw your target on the Dublin Marathon thread. 2:55. Best of luck.
Whats your race schedule between now and then?

Cheers, hopefully my training plan does the job. Using P and D 18 week plan that builds up to 55 miles. Racewise I'll be doing the Adidas series 5 mile, 10 mile and half. And will be doing some BHAA races (any of them that are at least 5 miles) around Dublin but wont be doing as many as I have since the first half of the year..

smmoore79

tisnotover wrote: »

Well done smmoore for nailing down your target time. Based on your recent 5mile times 2:55 should be well within ya, after the specific marathon training that you are now starting.

Looking forward to following the log over the next few months.
Best of luck !

Based on my training (or lack of) last time and getting 3 10 id say it is very possible to go sub 3. But with all these things comes other factors such as my slow recovery from long runs (this did a lot of damage to my training last time); a wedding/stag/holiday in between and how i feel on the big day! Hopefully i'll overcome these things though and nail the marathon :rolleyes:

tisnotover

smmoore79 wrote: »

Based on my training (or lack of) last time and getting 3 10 id say it is very possible to go sub 3. But with all these things comes other factors such as my slow recovery from long runs (this did a lot of damage to my training last time); a wedding/stag/holiday in between and how i feel on the big day! Hopefully i'll overcome these things though and nail the marathon :rolleyes:

I know all about the slow recovery from long run bit ! Especially if it was a Sat and you were doing intervals on the Tues. And also as the length of the long run + therefore mileage each week.

What I found helped me was to take high-5 (link below) during the long runs (carried a fuel-belt) and also drank 0.5L of it when I was finished with the run.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/High5_EnergySource_41_With_Super_Carbs_16kg_Tub/5360025040/

smmoore79

Cheers Tis, I might just order some of that. The reviews seem pretty convincing! So this would also be a replacement for energy gels during the marathon? Id try anything (within reason) to get over those Sunday long runs! And during Long runs you'd drink a bottle of this along with a bottle of water followed by some more Hi 5 after the run?

tisnotover

smmoore79 wrote: »

Cheers Tis, I might just order some of that. The reviews seem pretty convincing! So this would also be a replacement for energy gels during the marathon? Id try anything (within reason) to get over those Sunday long runs! And during Long runs you'd drink a bottle of this along with a bottle of water followed by some more Hi 5 after the run?

Hmmm, I don't know about using it as a replacement for energy gels. In Cork, I took 5*SIS GO gels and the water that was handed out. On reflection, I mite have done better to take a small bottle of this as well at some stage (think sosa did ?)

For a long run, I'd make two bottles of it, one for during and one for after. The bottle size would be 750ml say and I'd add 2/3 scoops of powder to it. I had a fuel-belt with 4*8oz bottles, which I then poured one of the 750ml bottles into. Any overflow, I drank before the run !

I think you can buy sachets of this as well in your sports shop if ya just want to try it out before odering a tub of it. It is very easy to take and it shouldn't upset your stomach. I know that Sosa and aero2k both use it.

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

PD 55 miles 18 week program.


Mon 14th Rest!
Tue 15th 8 miles(4 at 6 min pace)
Wed 16th Rest
Thur 17th 9 miles at 7.4 min pace
Fri 18th Rest
Sat 19th 4 miles at 8 min pace
Sun 20th 12 miles at 7 min pace

Thur - 9 miles aerobic at 7.4 mins. After all that lactic acid dispersed from saturday, I discovered a mild strain in the inside of my upper left leg. Again the heat was pretty uncomfortable, when will we have a dull evening!!! Got through my 9 miles taking in the sights of herbert park, sean moore park, Irishtown nature reserve and around to the power station and the 2 chimneys. Then back towards Landsdowne road. Towards the end i felt a strain in my lower right calf, so hopefully Fridays rest and Saturdays recovery run can help me recover. recorded the following splits;
1 6 28 to 7 mins(garmin was playin up here so not really accurate for M1)
2 6 43
3 7 14
4 7 18
5 7 15
6 7 13
7 7 20
8 7 25
9 7 21

smmoore79

tisnotover wrote: »

I know all about the slow recovery from long run bit ! Especially if it was a Sat and you were doing intervals on the Tues. And also as the length of the long run + therefore mileage each week.

What I found helped me was to take high-5 (link below) during the long runs (carried a fuel-belt) and also drank 0.5L of it when I was finished with the run.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/High5_EnergySource_41_With_Super_Carbs_16kg_Tub/5360025040/

Just ordered some of this Hi 5 online. Hopefully it does the trick and puts a bit of a spring in my step..

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

PD 55 miles 18 week program.

Mon 14th Rest!
Tue 15th 8 miles(4 at 6 min pace)
Wed 16th Rest
Thur 17th 9 miles at 7.4 min pace
Fri 18th Rest
Sat 19th 4 miles at 8 min pace
Sun 20th 12 miles at 7 min pace

Sat 19th 4 miles recovery, not much else to say..

Sun 20th 12 miles at 7 min pace. Yet another scorcher out there and i was out from 11.30 til near 1! Had a 500 ml of water for this and really had to conserve this. Had a bowl of porridge along with a lucozade sport with a few bites of banana. This seemed to keep me going. Was a tough course with bits of road, trail a little hill, grass and sand. My route took me to east wall lighthouse which is in the middle of Dublin bay. Roughly 1 and a bit miles in length of pure uneven concrete slabs, which i did up and back, ouch! Managed to hold my splits evenly enough which im really happy with. All in all, a 33 mile week and i didnt find the increased mileage a huge step up from what i was doing and im injury free which is the main thing!!

1 6 44
2 6 36
3 6 50
4 6 52
5 6 56
6 6 55
7 6 58
8 6 53
9 6 54
10 6 59
11 6 58
12 6 59

kennyb3

Maybe have a word with krusty and some of teh sub 3 boys, im not as fast as you but you are doing all your long runs at marathon pace or within 20 seconds which seems nuts to me

smmoore79

kennyb3 wrote: »

Maybe have a word with krusty and some of teh sub 3 boys, im not as fast as you but you are doing all your long runs at marathon pace or within 20 seconds which seems nuts to me

Supposed to be running my long runs 80% slower than goal pace. Would ideally like to pace the marathon at 6 mins 45 secs So 7 mins seems about right according to the plan. Admitedly i did the first few today a tad quick but i felt good and didnt look at the Garmin too much..

ecoli

kennyb3 wrote: »

Maybe have a word with krusty and some of teh sub 3 boys, im not as fast as you but you are doing all your long runs at marathon pace or within 20 seconds which seems nuts to me

Marathon pace runs are good but in moderation. This pace should be done roughly once or twice a week. The difference between these and slower "aerobic" running can give many of the same benefits while allowing the body to recover and the glycogen stores to replenish

Sosa

smmoore79 wrote: »

Supposed to be running my long runs 80% slower than goal pace. Would ideally like to pace the marathon at 6 mins 45 secs So 7 mins seems about right according to the plan. Admitedly i did the first few today a tad quick but i felt good and didnt look at the Garmin too much..

I built up my pmp miles in the lsr's...i never did 12 straight.
In week one i did 18 at 7:30p,following week i did the first 17 @ 7:30 and the last at 6:45...i gradually week after week built it up to doing 20 w/15 @ 7:30 and the last 5 around 6:30p.....
My other long run during the week was riddled with pmp miles.
I could do 15m like this,1m @ 7:30,2m @ 6:40 repeat that for the 15m or when i was really progressing i did 3m easy then 3x5m @ 6:40 ( 2min jog recovery inbetween ) and 2 easy.
There are loads of variations...but the key is you dont need to bang them all out together.

In total i did 136 miles between 6:35 and 6:45 in 13 weeks and that takes in taper for the wexford half i did,the recovery week after that and 2 weeks taper before the marathon....

For Dublin last year i was doing runs like your 12m there and was told that it was unneccessary,and it was proven right.

Quote from Arthur Lyniard ....Train...Don't Strain

tisnotover

Sosa wrote: »

I built up my pmp miles in the lsr's...i never did 12 straight.
In week one i did 18 at 7:30p,following week i did the first 17 @ 7:30 and the last at 6:45...i gradually week after week built it up to doing 20 w/15 @ 7:30 and the last 5 around 6:30p.....
My other long run during the week was riddled with pmp miles.
I could do 15m like this,1m @ 7:30,2m @ 6:40 repeat that for the 15m or when i was really progressing i did 3m easy then 3x5m @ 6:40 ( 2min jog recovery inbetween ) and 2 easy.
There are loads of variations...but the key is you dont need to bang them all out together.

In total i did 136 miles between 6:35 and 6:45 in 13 weeks and that takes in taper for the wexford half i did,the recovery week after that and 2 weeks taper before the marathon....

For Dublin last year i was doing runs like your 12m there and was told that it was unneccessary,and it was proven right.

Quote from Arthur Lyniard ....Train...Don't Strain

Coming from the other side of the camp here.

I'd disagree with Sosa here and see the marathon-paced run as being a separate entity from the long-slow run.

It would be nice to finish a LSR with a couple of PMP miles if you can, or as close as you can get, but, the LSR should be done over hills and it'll be difficult to keep PMP over a hilly route.

Examples of PMP would be like you did with straight-PMP miles or else to split it into intervals of say 3*3miles progressing to 4*3miles, etc.

For me i'd keep the mar-paced run separate...but there are different ways to skin a cat !

ecoli

tisnotover wrote: »

It would be nice to finish a LSR with a couple of PMP miles if you can, or as close as you can get, but, the LSR should be done over hills and it'll be difficult to keep PMP over a hilly route.

Only thing i could say about this is the DCM course not exactly fully flat:D

kennyb3

ecoli wrote: »

Marathon pace runs are good but in moderation. This pace should be done roughly once or twice a week. The difference between these and slower "aerobic" running can give many of the same benefits while allowing the body to recover and the glycogen stores to replenish

Not sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing with my point really in quoting my comment above.

my point for SM was that he is starting his training program and doing his first real runs over 10miles in long time and he is knocking out 12 miles in and around PMP at the start of a training program. that seems nuts. surely at this stage about 3-6 should be at pmp and the rest should be quite a bit slower. sosa mentions 7.30, id be think for SM he d be looking at least that given he doesnt have a history of long runs

tisnotover

ecoli wrote: »

Only thing i could say about this is the DCM course not exactly fully flat:D

True...but wouldn't fancy trying to do it here:;)
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/34092494

To get back on topic ecoli, I'd like to see what you've planned for the 3hr mentoring thread, will it be the LSR with PMP mile plan or keeping the LSR and PMP runs separate ??

ecoli

tisnotover wrote: »

True...but wouldn't fancy trying to do it here:;)
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/34092494

To get back on topic ecoli, I'd like to see what you've planned for the 3hr mentoring thread, will it be the LSR with PMP mile plan or keeping the LSR and PMP runs separate ??

My plan incorporates MP miles in the LSR however the idea is to only use this every second week rather than every LSR however my plan does include alot of HM paced sessions during the week also. The idea is race simulation should be a part of the training plan but it should not be the primary focus, this should be (safe) aerobic development

Sosa

tisnotover wrote: »

True...but wouldn't fancy trying to do it here:;)
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/34092494

To get back on topic ecoli, I'd like to see what you've planned for the 3hr mentoring thread, will it be the LSR with PMP mile plan or keeping the LSR and PMP runs separate ??

I would be very surprised if ecoli takes my route with his mentoring program,it was tough...and got very tough near the end,but it paid massive dividends for me and i any marathon i do in the future,i will be following the same plan just doing the pmp miles faster.