Sub 2.30 marathon? Suits you sir!

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

Week 1 of advanced 10km training below. Starts off easy enough with a 3 miler tonight at a nice easy pace. The 1 exception is Saturday. Will do the next BHAA 5 mile cross country instead. Was supposed to so 5miles run with 2 miles 10km race pace. So not too different. Any thoughts on this plan? Too much too soon or manageable enough?

3 m run + strength
30 min tempo
6 x 400 mile pace
3 m run + strength
Rest or 3 m
5 m total, 2 pace (BHAA xC)

6 m run

6 x 400 mile pace
Bloody hell, that was tough!! Speed work is horrrible (but necessary:rolleyes:). This was the first time ive tried speed work in a long time. Had no idea what time to aim for, just to run fast. I g pedometered a stretch of grass along Sandymount strand, it was in and around 400 metres but not exactly, maybe a few metres over. My first attempt resulted in 83 seconds which made me almost cough up a lung! The next few attempts ended up from 78 to 82 seconds. For my last 2 attempts i decided to run on the sand. the only problem was lots of perople walking their dogs. I could see 1 owner/dog up ahead. This dog was jumping and running all over the place. As i was running at pace past them, the dog decided to run into me! My legs seemed to take on a mind of their own, and somehow swung to the right, whilst my upper body remained in the same place??! Think i may have defied some law of physics avoiding the mutt. In fairness to the owner, he said sorry. I ended up with 84 seconds due to that. My last attempt (also on sand) resulted in 79 seconds. All in all, it was enjoyable, if not very painful. Dont think i'll be knocking too many seconds off my speed reps as the weeks progress. Will head out to the UCD track next week and try them on a proper, accurately measured, non grass, non sand track!!

Tonight is a 3 mile easy run with some strenth training after; much easier than speed reps!!!:D

smmoore79

BHAA 23 Jan 2009 5m xcountry.

Enjoyed this one a bit more than the week before. The conditions were a little better which helped. crossed the line in 32 mins exactly. Have to say i faded a little in the last 2 miles which means that i need to up the mileage. That 5 mile today was the furthest ive run this year. Hopefully in 2 weeks i can do a little better at the Swords CC.

24 Jan 2009 6 miles (LR)

Was a little tired from yesterday and finally decided to get off my ass at 7pm. Ran from Upper Baggot street out to UCD, around the track twice and back again. Seemed to get a niggle on the top of my right foot which is a slight concern. It was the left foot that put me out for 2 months the last time. Im putting it down to fatigue anyways....

smmoore79

3 m run +
strength
40 min tempo
7 x 400 mile pace
4 m run +
strength
Rest or 3 m
5 m total, 2 pace
7 m run

This weeks punishment :rolleyes:

Speedy44

smmoore79 wrote: »

BHAA 23 Jan 2009 5m xcountry.

Enjoyed this one a bit more than the week before. The conditions were a little better which helped. crossed the line in 32 mins exactly. Have to say i faded a little in the last 2 miles which means that i need to up the mileage.

FWIW, I wouldn't necessarily up the mileage. You may be better off doing more strength training. Increase your interval to 800m or 1K and think about shortening the recovery. This should help tp get you over the last couple of miles. Good luck

smmoore79

Speedy44 wrote: »

smmoore79 wrote: »

BHAA 23 Jan 2009 5m xcountry.

Enjoyed this one a bit more than the week before. The conditions were a little better which helped. crossed the line in 32 mins exactly. Have to say i faded a little in the last 2 miles which means that i need to up the mileage.

FWIW, I wouldn't necessarily up the mileage. You may be better off doing more strength training. Increase your interval to 800m or 1K and think about shortening the recovery. This should help tp get you over the last couple of miles. Good luck

Thanks for the advice. Currently i do 2 evenings of strength training which i think is enough for now. Have only started back running 2.5 weeks (was 2 months laid off with left glute and left foot problems) so dont want to kill myself with the intervals. Will leave it at 400 for now and see how it goes.

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

3 m run + strength
40 min tempo
7 x 400 mile pace
4 m run + strength
Rest
5 m total, 2 pace
7 m run

This weeks punishment :rolleyes:

Did the 3 miles last night down Sandymount followed by some strength excercises, nothing much to write home about. Starting to get a little fatigued around the calves with the 10km program. Perhaps 6 days of running is overkill???

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

3 m run + strength
40 min tempo
7 x 400 mile pace
4 m run + strength
Rest or 3 m
5 m total, 2 pace
7 m run

This weeks punishment :rolleyes:

Last night was the 40 minute tempo. All was going well, i upped the pace midway and ran at near race pace for 10 minutes. But my calves were exhausted after this and i struggled home slowly in a bit of discomfort. Was wearing cotton tracksuit bottoms too which gave me burns in the nether regions!! Im thinking that 6 days may be a bit overkill for my body and reducing my training to 5 days. Will rest tonight and tomorrow do the 7 x 400 mile pace. Goin forward, I'll drop the Monday run but still so the strength excercises. Any other ideas on beating fatigue??

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

3 m run + strength
40 min tempo
7 x 400 mile pace
4 m run + strength (change to 7 x 400)
Rest or 3 m
5 m total, 2 pace
7 m run

This weeks punishment :rolleyes:

Took the night off last night due to calves being really tired. Feel better for it now. tonight i'll do 7 x 400 pace at the track. Hope my regular trainers are ok for this as last Sunday I was slipping a bit!

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

3 m run + strength
40 min tempo
7 x 400 mile pace (rest instead!!)
4 m run + strength (7 x 400)
Rest or 3 m
5 m total, 2 pace
7 m run

This weeks punishment :rolleyes:

7 x 400 track

Cycled out to the UCD sports track yesterday evening. Started by doing 2 light jogs around the track and then got into the speed session. First one was tough, i think i clocked 74 secs for the 400m though after that i couldnt reset my stop watch coz it was too dark!! i wouldnt be the best techie person in the world, stop and start the stop watch is all i know !! second and third were just as tough. For breaks between i jogged around the 400m track once after each session. There was a [EMAIL="b@tch"]b@tch[/EMAIL] of a wind on one side of the track which was a killer. Session 6 and 7 were very satisfying as i finished off strong which i couldnt believe! I think the extra rest day benefited me.. After that a nice cycle home

Krusty_Clown

Sounds like you're making solid progress. There's not much point in doing an interval session when you're feeling tired or suffering from niggles, as you won't do the session justice, and compound any problems you may be suffering. Have you settled on a 10k race?

smmoore79

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Sounds like you're making solid progress. There's not much point in doing an interval session when you're feeling tired or suffering from niggles, as you won't do the session justice, and compound any problems you may be suffering. Have you settled on a 10k race?

Yeah , the day off really helped. Was really surprised that i did all 7 400m reps and did them well enough! have a head cold so thought that id have to stop after 4 or so. I think 5 days of training as opposed to 6 should be more than enough and benefit me more. Havent decided on any 10km in particular, something around March April. Until then I'll focus on training and doing as many BHAA x country races as possible. In the long term, the x country should help in building strength and lead nicely into marathon training which i'll start in June.

smmoore79

The weekends training was ruined by me being ill. Was down for 5 miles saturday. 2 of those at race pace. Felt exhausted for the whole thing. The 2 mile race pace almost killed me! Not the best idea to run while not feeling well. As a results, missed my 7m long run on Sunday, damn! Will post my training plan for this week up soon.

smmoore79

Gona do a repeat of week 2 schedule due to me missing a couple of sessions last week... Hopefully I can put in a decent run this Saturday with the limited training?! bought some XC trainers so that should help!

Tues 40 min Tempo
Wed 7 x 400 mile pace
Thur 4m run and strength
Fri rest
Sat 5m xc race (BHAA Swords)
Sun 7m run at easy pace

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

Gona do a repeat of week 2 schedule due to me missing a couple of sessions last week... Hopefully I can put in a decent run this Saturday with the limited training?! bought some XC trainers so that should help!

Tues 40 min Tempo
Wed 7 x 400 mile pace
Thur 4m run and strength
Fri rest
Sat 5m xc race (BHAA Swords)
Sun 7m run at easy pace

Had a nice 40 mins tempo by the beach last night. Wasnt tired so that has to be a good thing! Tonight's session is 7 x 400m out at the track. Have me new xc trainers with 6mm spikes so looking forward to breaking them in

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

Gona do a repeat of week 2 schedule due to me missing a couple of sessions last week... Hopefully I can put in a decent run this Saturday with the limited training?! bought some XC trainers so that should help!

Tues 40 min Tempo
Wed 7 x 400 mile pace
Thur 4m run and strength
Fri rest
Sat 5m xc race (BHAA Swords)
Sun 7m run at easy pace

Was really lookin forward to the track last night. I had gotten my new trainers with 6mm spikes and wanted to break them in. Started by jogging twice round and then start the speedwork. Unfortunately nature called and i had to jog to the nearest quietest shrubs! Got back into the training anyhow and then realised id forgotten my stopwatch, so just continued on. The new trainers were pretty cool though my 1 reservation was the lack of support; above my ankles are pretty sore today! completed the 7 x 400m at mile pace and could have done another couple had a gun been put to my head. At the end i took my trainers off to do some stretches and then realised that id lost 2 spikes somewhere on the track,, doooh! The guy that sold them to me never bothered to give me a spike tightener so had to manually tighten the spikes - obviously didnt put some on tight enough. Elverys on Grafton st dont sell them either. Is there anything else handy that could do a good job tightening spikes??!

4 miles tonight/strangth training though am not really up for it. legs a bit tired from last night.

smmoore79

4 miles easy and some strength training last night. Legs still felt tired from Wednesdays speed session of 7 x 400. Ran at 8 minute miles down Sandymount with a hell of a wind in my face! Later came the strength training which i may have overdone. feelin wrecked this morning, lack of sleep and tired calves. Dont think i'll be breakin any records tomorrow in the Swords 5m XC!!

Speedy44

smmoore79 wrote: »

Was really lookin forward to the track last night. I had gotten my new trainers with 6mm spikes and wanted to break them in. Started by jogging twice round and then start the speedwork. Unfortunately nature called and i had to jog to the nearest quietest shrubs! Got back into the training anyhow and then realised id forgotten my stopwatch, so just continued on. The new trainers were pretty cool though my 1 reservation was the lack of support; above my ankles are pretty sore today! completed the 7 x 400m at mile pace and could have done another couple had a gun been put to my head. At the end i took my trainers off to do some stretches and then realised that id lost 2 spikes somewhere on the track,, doooh! The guy that sold them to me never bothered to give me a spike tightener so had to manually tighten the spikes - obviously didnt put some on tight enough. Elverys on Grafton st dont sell them either. Is there anything else handy that could do a good job tightening spikes??!

4 miles tonight/strangth training though am not really up for it. legs a bit tired from last night.

Any kind of pliers should tighten the spikes for you.
Did I read correctly that you only did 800m of a warm up before your track session? If so, IMO, you should really do at least a mile, some stretches and even a few strides to prevent risk of injury.

smmoore79

Speedy44 wrote: »

Any kind of pliers should tighten the spikes for you.
Did I read correctly that you only did 800m of a warm up before your track session? If so, IMO, you should really do at least a mile, some stretches and even a few strides to prevent risk of injury.

yep, just 800m. To be honest its more of a time pressure thing in that i didnt have enough time to jog a mile and then stretch. Someone told me once that stretches are only necessary after a run. So i only ever stretch after runs. I could be wrong though!!!

smmoore79

Speedy44 wrote: »

Any kind of pliers should tighten the spikes for you.
Did I read correctly that you only did 800m of a warm up before your track session? If so, IMO, you should really do at least a mile, some stretches and even a few strides to prevent risk of injury.

Forgot to say cheers for the pliers tip!

Speedy44

smmoore79 wrote: »

yep, just 800m. To be honest its more of a time pressure thing in that i didnt have enough time to jog a mile and then stretch. Someone told me once that stretches are only necessary after a run. So i only ever stretch after runs. I could be wrong though!!!

They were right when they said that you should stretch after you run. If you stretch before you run your muscles are still cold and you risk injury.

That is the purpose of a significant warm up of at least a mile before a track session. You will then be loose enough to stretch before you start your session.

smmoore79

Speedy44 wrote: »

They were right when they said that you should stretch after you run. If you stretch before you run your muscles are still cold and you risk injury.

That is the purpose of a significant warm up of at least a mile before a track session. You will then be loose enough to stretch before you start your session.

That makes sense, so warm up 1m and stretch. Thanks for the advice!

smmoore79

Sat 11.30am BHAA farmers xc in Swords

Thought that i was still a bit fatigued from the midweek training but decided to give this a bash anyways. Had a good run though faded a bit in the last mile. All that mud and bales of hay really takes it outta ya! Lucky for me i tried to keep pace with a tall guy with a boards.ie jersey; otherwise i may not have pushed myself as much. Couldnt quite catch him but was still happy to finish about 20 yards behind him. In the end i clocked 30 and half mins over 5m. So i was a minute and a half quicker than the last xc race 2 weeks ago and 3 mins quicker than my first xc last month. Deffo heading in the right direction. Unfortunately i over celebrated and was in a bad way all sunday so missed a planned 7m!

smmoore79

This weeks slog. So far havent done much on Sunday, kept skipping the LSR, will make it my mission to run 8m!!


Monday strength
Tuesday 50 min Tempo
Wednesday 8 x 400 mile pace
Thursday 5 m run and strength
Friday rest
Saturday 5 m xc BHAA ALSAA
Sunday 8m (3/1)

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks slog. So far havent done much on Sunday, kept skipping the LSR, will make it my mission to run 8m!!


Monday strength
Tuesday 50 min Tempo
Wednesday 8 x 400 mile pace
Thursday 5 m run and strength
Friday rest
Saturday 5 m xc BHAA ALSAA
Sunday 8m (3/1)

Decided to do the 5 mile run last night and save the tempo for Thursday. Ran from Smithfield to Sandymount via the canal and across to Lansdowne road. Not too bad except I had a really heavy bag on my back! Was happy to finish. The bag took a fair bit of energy from me. Out to the track tonight for 8 x 400. Hopefully my legs feel a bit more rested.

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks slog. So far havent done much on Sunday, kept skipping the LSR, will make it my mission to run 8m!!


Monday strength
Tuesday 50 min Tempo
Wednesday 8 x 400 mile pace
Thursday 5 m run and strength
Friday rest
Saturday 5 m xc BHAA ALSAA
Sunday 8m (3/1)

Cycled out to UCD to do my 8 x 400 mile pace with 400m recovery. Started off with 3 easy laps and then a few stretches. Then proceeded with the speed work. Didnt bring my stop watch as there was no point due to it being so dark out there and i couldnt read the times! Knew i was going at a good pace anyhows coz i was struggling for breath by the end of each one. After my first sprint, the UCD athletics team (about 20 of them) decided to do their own training so had to jump on the grass each time i passed them. A bit of a pain, but its their track and im using it for free so cant complain! Took a bit of a panic on the 5th lap and thought about stopping but kept plugging on. After that I wasnt too bad. Managed to do all 8 which was very very satisfying and did 2 laps easy as part of recovery with a few stretches after.

Tonight Im gona do my 50 minute tempo run out by Sandymount beach. Legs are tired now so hopefully by this evening they are feeling a little better. Speed work really tires my legs; if there are any quick fix solutions to tired legs, please let me know!!

kennyb3

I'd say skip the tempo and do an easy run. most people wouldnt to 2 sessions in 3days let alone 2. you raced last sat and have one planned this sat. thats 4 sessions in 8 days. You not feel your asking for injury?

ecoli

kennyb3 wrote: »

I'd say skip the tempo and do an easy run. most people wouldnt to 2 sessions in 3days let alone 2. you raced last sat and have one planned this sat. thats 4 sessions in 8 days. You not feel your asking for injury?

Agreed remember your muscles dont get stronger from your actual workouts its the recovery afterword and by doing two hard sessions in a row is not only inviting injury but also inhibiting development. I know it can be hard to try and fit everything in a week but dont compromise the training you do for the sake of an extra session

smmoore79

Thanks for the advice. As you probably know, Im following a hal higdon program and have removed 1 days training from it (rest on Mondays instead of easy run). But i also like doing the BHAA runs and they are coming thick and fast! so ive replaced hal higdons Sat run (5 miles, 2/3 at race pace) with 5 mile BHAA xc. It could be a lot to take on board all together so appreciate any comments you guys make re training/rest balance. Feel i should do something tonight so maybe 5m easy with 20 mins strength training? Still too much?

kennyb3

smmoore79 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. As you probably know, Im following a hal higdon program and have removed 1 days training from it (rest on Mondays instead of easy run). But i also like doing the BHAA runs and they are coming thick and fast! so ive replaced hal higdons Sat run (5 miles, 2/3 at race pace) with 5 mile BHAA xc. It could be a lot to take on board all together so appreciate any comments you guys make re training/rest balance. Feel i should do something tonight so maybe 5m easy with 20 mins strength training? Still too much?

Im no expert myself. 5m easy should be okay as long as its actually easy. The races imo should replace a tempo or interval session so i would scratch one of them and maybe alternate them. tempo one week and intervals the following week.

this is important as you ve replaced a 2/3rds pace run with a race which is the hardest session you can do. Expecting to do a race, intervals, tempo and long run (4 key sessions) in one week is a bit of overkill esp when your trying to do two of them on consecutive days. at the very least id be doing easy day, hard day, easy day, hard day so on. but most would advocate between 2 or even 3 days between hard sessions (intervals monday and tempo thursday).

what will happen is injury or not doing your hard days hard enough. like ecoli says you need easy days after hard days to let your body repair and build up stronger. dont flog yourself day in day out it will only lead to breakdown.

PS i use to do it and have learnt the hard way myself.

ecoli

smmoore79 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. As you probably know, Im following a hal higdon program and have removed 1 days training from it (rest on Mondays instead of easy run). But i also like doing the BHAA runs and they are coming thick and fast! so ive replaced hal higdons Sat run (5 miles, 2/3 at race pace) with 5 mile BHAA xc. It could be a lot to take on board all together so appreciate any comments you guys make re training/rest balance. Feel i should do something tonight so maybe 5m easy with 20 mins strength training? Still too much?

Monday strength
Tuesday 5 mile run
Wednesday 8 x 400 mile pace
Thursday 5 m run and strength
Friday rest
Saturday 5 m xc BHAA ALSAA
Sunday 8m (3/1)

My advice would be to use races as your tempo do your wed session and the rest be runs. At this stage you are still a fair bit away from the marathon so it is important to build up a sufficient bank of miles there will be plenty of time for sessions and two is plenty as is for now