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Sub 2.30 marathon? Suits you sir!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Speedy44


    smmoore79 wrote: »
    Cycled out to UCD to do my 8 x 400 mile pace with 400m recovery. Started off with 3 easy laps and then a few stretches. Then proceeded with the speed work. Didnt bring my stop watch as there was no point due to it being so dark out there and i couldnt read the times! Knew i was going at a good pace anyhows coz i was struggling for breath by the end of each one. After my first sprint, the UCD athletics team (about 20 of them) decided to do their own training so had to jump on the grass each time i passed them. A bit of a pain, but its their track and im using it for free so cant complain! Took a bit of a panic on the 5th lap and thought about stopping but kept plugging on. After that I wasnt too bad. Managed to do all 8 which was very very satisfying and did 2 laps easy as part of recovery with a few stretches after.

    Tonight Im gona do my 50 minute tempo run out by Sandymount beach. Legs are tired now so hopefully by this evening they are feeling a little better. Speed work really tires my legs; if there are any quick fix solutions to tired legs, please let me know!!

    100% agree with the other comments, I'm definitely a follower of the hard/easy rule. Your doing well with your sessions to date, just remember the rest/easy days can be as important as the tough sessions (now if only I could follow my own advice :rolleyes: ).
    Keep up the good work .


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    Thanks EColi and Speedy44. I think i needed someone to give me a reality check. Im not exhausted but am pretty tired. I think I'll drop the tempo and on weekends when there are no races, reintroduce it. So i think i'll do a 5 mile easy tonight. Dont want to get injured at this early stage!

    Going forward i'll do the adjusted 10km program. Then after the 8 weeks when the program finishes i might repeat the program again. Come June I should have a nice fitness base and a fair whack of strength, so will start a marathon program and aim for Dublin in October..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    Last night was meant to be a 5 miler. But due to working late/tiredness, that never materialised! So far this week, Ive done

    Mon rest
    Tue 5m with a bag on back
    Wed 8 x 400 speed - strength
    Thur rest
    Fri rest

    next up Sat 5 m BHAA
    Sun 8m (think ill do the whole lot easy!)

    Hopefully the lack of training doesnt effect the run. The bottom of my calves are still sore from Wendesday which is strange. Another night off hopefully should sort that out..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    Gona jump ahead of myself and put up next weeks schedule. Here goes:

    15th Mon rest
    16th Tue 8 x 400 speed
    17th Wed 5m easy run and strength
    18th Thur Strength
    19th Fri rest
    20th Sat 50 min Tempo (no xc on that date)
    21st Sun 8 mile easy (maybe some race pace if im not fatigued)

    Any comments on this schedule are always welcome :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    Sat 13th Feb: BHAA XC ALSAA 5m

    Due to my lack of training last week, my pace slipped slightly in this race compared to Swords the week before. Felt really wrecked during the ALSAA XC and couldnt wait til it was over. Really hard to catch my breath. I think the fact it was over 4 laps messed with my head a bit!! Finished in 31 mins 1 second, thought i would have taked longer so was happy enough. Was even happier when i saw that i finished 30th!! Again i over celebrated that night and was in no condition to do a sunday long run of 8 miles. Felt so guilty yesterday as a result. I really have to start getting some long runs down as i feel they will help in the BHAA races..


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    An 8 mile easy run is the perfect cure for a hangover, and also helps you deal with the guilt of the previous night's drinking!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    An 8 mile easy run is the perfect cure for a hangover, and also helps you deal with the guilt of the previous night's drinking!

    This was beyond hangover, stomach was doing summersaults all day yesterday. Needless to say, the girlfriend was unimpressed :) still feel wrecked today!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    smmoore79 wrote: »
    Gona jump ahead of myself and put up next weeks schedule. Here goes:

    15th Mon rest
    16th Tue 8 x 400 speed
    17th Wed 5m easy run and strength
    18th Thur Strength
    19th Fri rest
    20th Sat 50 min Tempo (no xc on that date)
    21st Sun 8 mile easy (maybe some race pace if im not fatigued)

    Any comments on this schedule are always welcome :rolleyes:

    Last night was a rest night. Was ready for vegging when the other half somehow decided that she'd like to go for a jog. Was surprised by this coz a year ago she gave jogging a bash but physically had to stop after 100 metres :mad: So i said id help her on this one. We started by a fast walk for 5 minutes then breaking into a jog. Then a fast walk again at Sean Moore park. Time to turn and head back home. So we started with a jog. I said she could walk again after 2 mins but when we reached 2 mins she kept going. She was still going 5 mins later, and then decided to finish with a sprint! Was well impressed by what she did. I questioned her new found interest in jogging and her response was that she seen a girl of heavier build glide past her office window and if this girl could do it then so could she; i knew there was a hidden agenda! Probably not the most pc reason to take up running either! So maybe 1 more person to add to the running family :D

    8 x 400m for me tonight. Will be going a little faster than last night!! No excuses this week, gonna stick to the plan and not let beer or any other reason get in the way. Am determined to do a Long run this Sunday!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    smmoore79 wrote: »
    Gona jump ahead of myself and put up next weeks schedule. Here goes:

    15th Mon rest
    16th Tue 8 x 400 speed
    17th Wed 5m easy run and strength
    18th Thur Strength
    19th Fri rest
    20th Sat 50 min Tempo (no xc on that date)
    21st Sun 8 mile easy (maybe some race pace if im not fatigued)

    Any comments on this schedule are always welcome :rolleyes:

    8 x 400 last night out at the track. Started with 4 laps warm up (1600m). Then got into the business end of things, 8 x 400 with 400m recovery. First one went ok, second a little tougher. On the third lap i had what can only be described as a mini panic attack with all those negative thoughts telling me to stop! Continued on regardless, and the fourth loop was just as tough. 4 more loops to go. Then something strange happened, the 5 loop wasnt so bad, the 6th was ok too. Come the 8th I coudl have done another 1!! Didnt have a stop watch but knew i was going at a decent pace (roughly 70 to 80 secs) so dont think i slowed up for the last laps.. Once that was over, i did 2 laps warm down and could feel the soreness in the lower calves from pounding the track. Legs not sore this morning, but a little weak. Lets hope sitting in the office for a day helps them recover!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    smmoore79 wrote: »
    Gona jump ahead of myself and put up next weeks schedule. Here goes:

    15th Mon rest
    16th Tue 8 x 400 speed
    17th Wed 5m easy run and strength
    18th Thur Strength
    19th Fri rest
    20th Sat 50 min Tempo (no xc on that date)
    21st Sun 8 mile easy (maybe some race pace if im not fatigued)

    Any comments on this schedule are always welcome :rolleyes:

    Was meant to be 5 miles with some strength. Had to visit parents in Smithfield so decided id run home from Smithfield to Sandymount. The legs were still pretty tired from Tuesdays speed session out at the track and i was running with a bag on my back which didnt help. The legs felft literally like lead so took the 3.5 mile shortcut home. Still got some excercise anyways. Will reschedule yesterdays strength session for Saturday. Tonight im down for some strength aswell, well at least its not running and in a way i can rest! I think from now on, no running the day after a speed session, just a strength session :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    This running things a real learning curve, so i think going forward i'll have a plan in an order something like this. looks like it has a nice balance where at least i can rest after a speed session.

    Mon strength
    Tue speed session
    Wed rest
    Thur easy run and strength
    Fri rest
    Sat Race or tempo
    Sun Long run


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭tisnotover


    smmoore79 wrote: »
    This running things a real learning curve, so i think going forward i'll have a plan in an order something like this. looks like it has a nice balance where at least i can rest after a speed session.

    Mon strength
    Tue speed session
    Wed rest
    Thur easy run and strength
    Fri rest
    Sat Race or tempo
    Sun Long run

    Similar to you, I do a speed session on tues, but I would suggest doing the recovery/easy run on the wednesday. As you just posted, the legs do feel heavy, but its good to get some recovery run in.

    I'd take thurs then as the rest-day, and maybe friday do the tempo run, with long run sunday and rest sunday?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭kennyb3


    tisnotover wrote: »
    Similar to you, I do a speed session on tues, but I would suggest doing the recovery/easy run on the wednesday. As you just posted, the legs do feel heavy, but its good to get some recovery run in.

    I'd take thurs then as the rest-day, and maybe friday do the tempo run, with long run sunday and rest sunday?
    +1, doing 3-4 miles really easy the day after a session will actually leave your legs in better position for thurs and friday. taking a rest day generally leaves my legs heavy. recovery runs loosen up the legs


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    kennyb3 wrote: »
    +1, doing 3-4 miles really easy the day after a session will actually leave your legs in better position for thurs and friday. taking a rest day generally leaves my legs heavy. recovery runs loosen up the legs

    If at all possible i would also suggest that try get these recovery runs in AM to flush out the legs and improve the blood flow with in the legs for the full day allowing for optimum recovery for the next days run/session.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    Some interesting points there. A morning easy run on a wednesday could be an option. Will have to set the alarm for a bit earlier. (work 9 to 5.30). I aslo think that my footwear could be a factor. In recent weeks I have been using my new XC spikes with 6mm spikes for these speed sessions at the track. They wouldnt have the greatest support but are light. I may try the speed work with my mizuno's instead. The lower calf pain mightnt be as bad..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    smmoore79 wrote: »
    Gona jump ahead of myself and put up next weeks schedule. Here goes:

    15th Mon rest
    16th Tue 8 x 400 speed
    17th Wed 5m easy run and strength
    18th Thur Strength
    19th Fri rest
    20th Sat 50 min Tempo (no xc on that date)
    21st Sun 8 mile easy (maybe some race pace if im not fatigued)

    Any comments on this schedule are always welcome :rolleyes:

    Did 30 mins of core conditioning last night - squats, push ups, dumbells etc. Focused on the legs, core but also a little upper body too. Feel good today, and its a nice evening off to rest. Tomorrow, I'll give the 50 minute tempo a bash..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    smmoore79 wrote: »
    Some interesting points there. A morning easy run on a wednesday could be an option. Will have to set the alarm for a bit earlier. (work 9 to 5.30). I aslo think that my footwear could be a factor. In recent weeks I have been using my new XC spikes with 6mm spikes for these speed sessions at the track. They wouldnt have the greatest support but are light. I may try the speed work with my mizuno's instead. The lower calf pain mightnt be as bad..

    In my personal opinion i find that doing your track sessions in your spikes is not a good idea. Many spikes are designed specifically to be light and suit the distances for which they were made. Say for example you train in an MD spike which designed for 800/1500 even if you are doing reps of these distances the fact is you are doing alot more because you have to count the total distance of the session.
    I myself do all my track sessions in my flats you dont get the same advantages granted but they are still light enough for the sessions and they provide you legs with a bit more support. Only this week i had a time trial on track and opted for the flats rather than spikes. I would only recommend spikes if you are trying to break them in and only then do very few reps. This might help with your calf problems as the track can be hard on the legs and need optimum support while still being light enough to perform rep times you want to achieve.
    Some people may disagree with this as it is a debateable topic but i would just like to reiterate that this is my personal opinion not bible ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    ecoli wrote: »
    In my personal opinion i find that doing your track sessions in your spikes is not a good idea. Many spikes are designed specifically to be light and suit the distances for which they were made. Say for example you train in an MD spike which designed for 800/1500 even if you are doing reps of these distances the fact is you are doing alot more because you have to count the total distance of the session.
    I myself do all my track sessions in my flats you dont get the same advantages granted but they are still light enough for the sessions and they provide you legs with a bit more support. Only this week i had a time trial on track and opted for the flats rather than spikes. I would only recommend spikes if you are trying to break them in and only then do very few reps. This might help with your calf problems as the track can be hard on the legs and need optimum support while still being light enough to perform rep times you want to achieve.
    Some people may disagree with this as it is a debateable topic but i would just like to reiterate that this is my personal opinion not bible ;)

    I have to agree with you all the same. I guy i work who plays hurling got some spikes for the track. The plan was to get fit and have a bit of speed in him come the start of his hurling season. But he too has some tightness in his lower calves. Hopefully when im out again next Tuesday, i wont be in pain Wednesday morning :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    Sunday 21st feb 2010: 8 miles easy. This was the furthest ive run all year. Since my program started, Ive managed to avoid doing the Sunday long runs. So i decided to stay away from the beer on Saturday and get off my @ss for Sunday. Have to say it started to get a bit tough after 30 minutes (halfway point). For some reason it felt like id been on a bike and started to run straight after!! Legs were a bit wonky :D Still, i carried on - up and down Sandymount and around Sean Moore park. managed to complete the 8 miles and felt very satisfied for doing so. This week will be a short week as im away from Thursday to Sunday;

    Mon Strength
    Tue 9 x 400m speed
    Wed Strength
    Thur to Sun (nothing , but ya never know, I'll bring my trainers with me just in case!)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    smmoore79 wrote: »
    Sunday 21st feb 2010: 8 miles easy. This was the furthest ive run all year. Since my program started, Ive managed to avoid doing the Sunday long runs. So i decided to stay away from the beer on Saturday and get off my @ss for Sunday. Have to say it started to get a bit tough after 30 minutes (halfway point). For some reason it felt like id been on a bike and started to run straight after!! Legs were a bit wonky :D Still, i carried on - up and down Sandymount and around Sean Moore park. managed to complete the 8 miles and felt very satisfied for doing so. This week will be a short week as im away from Thursday to Sunday;

    Mon Strength
    Tue 9 x 400m speed
    Wed Strength
    Thur to Sun (nothing , but ya never know, I'll bring my trainers with me just in case!)

    I'll stick down 3 mile run for Thursday :-) and some strength maybe


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    smmoore79 wrote: »
    Mon Strength
    Tue 9 x 400m speed
    Wed Strength
    Thur to Sun (nothing , but ya never know, I'll bring my trainers with me just in case!)

    Tue 9 x 400m UCD track

    Was almost not gonna bother due to the weather but put that thought outta my head an dcycled out after work. Wind and rain in my face at Donnybrook almost made me turn back. Im glad i didnt coz had a really tough but enjoyable session. Theres a stop watch on the mobile so i carried it around in my hand to see what times id get. Decided to shorten my 400m recovery to 300m approx recovery.

    4 x 400m light run warm up
    Lap 1-3 77 seconds
    Lap 4-5 79 seconds
    Lap 6/7 77 seconds
    Lap 8/9 78 seconds
    2 x 400m light run warm down and some stretches

    I had the negative thoughts again around lap 4 and 5. Funnily enough they were slightly worse laps aswell. Didnt wear my spikes, went for mizunos instead and my calves are thanking me this morning for that decision :). Without the rain/wind/hoody tracksuit top, maybe i would have been a second or 2 quicker on each lap?! Then a nasty 20minute cycle home. Got home soaked and freezing but very happy with myself for getting out to do some training. Strength training tonight and a 5 mile easy run on Thursday..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    Back from a long weekend break. Have done nothing in the last 5 days so feeling a bit outta shape now!!! Off the bat, this is my weeks training;

    Tue 2 Strength
    Wed 3 speed (9 x 400m)
    Thur 4 recovery (4 or 5 miles)
    Fri 5 Rest
    Sat 6 easy 4 miles + strength
    Sun 7 Long run (8 miles)

    That should get me back on track ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    smmoore79 wrote: »
    Back from a long weekend break. Have done nothing in the last 5 days so feeling a bit outta shape now!!! Off the bat, this is my weeks training;

    Tue 2 Strength
    Wed 3 speed (9 x 400m)
    Thur 4 recovery (4 or 5 miles)
    Fri 5 Rest
    Sat 6 easy 4 miles + strength
    Sun 7 Long run (8 miles)

    That should get me back on track ;)

    Worked on the core, legs and a small bit upper body last night. Got a good 45 minutes worth of strength all together. Gona head out to the track later for 9 x 400m with 300m recovery. Im a little worried coz i havent done any running since last Wednesday (which was also 9 x 400m)! Will see how it goes anyway, any sort of running is better than nothing :rolleyes: Hope to be back fit again come the Malahide BHAA XC next Wednesday...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    smmoore79 wrote: »
    Back from a long weekend break. Have done nothing in the last 5 days so feeling a bit outta shape now!!! Off the bat, this is my weeks training;

    Tue 2 Strength
    Wed 3 speed (9 x 400m)
    Thur 4 recovery (4 or 5 miles)
    Fri 5 Rest
    Sat 6 easy 4 miles + strength
    Sun 7 Long run (8 miles)

    That should get me back on track ;)

    Wed 3rd 9 x 400m speed with 300m recovery

    This was my first run since the Wednesday before so was a little nervous. None the less I cycled out to the track. It was a nice evening with little or no wind so had no excuses apart from being rusty from a week not running! Started with 1600m warm up run and then started the speed work. The following times were clocked;

    Lap 1 - 74 secs
    Lap 2 - 75 secs
    Lap 3 - 74 secs
    Lap 4 - 77 secs
    Lap 5 -76 secs
    Lap 6 -75 secs
    Lap 7 - 76 secs
    Laps 8 and 9 - 77 secs
    1200 warm down run

    Again on lap 4 I dipped a little, and was tempted to pack it in. Glad i didnt as over the 9 laps my times were fairly consistent. Last weeks session ranged from 77 to 80 secs though it was windy.. So happy enough with that session and then a 15 min cycle home.. Tonights session is a nice recovery run over 4 miles, happy days :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    As Im following a 10km training program, i figure that i should aim for a 10km race. Coincidently the Great Ireland 10km is next month, so thats gonna be my target! The last 10km i did a year ago was 39 mins so this time i'll aim for 37 mins.. Could be a bridge too far but i'll give it a shot anyways..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    smmoore79 wrote: »
    Back from a long weekend break. Have done nothing in the last 5 days so feeling a bit outta shape now!!! Off the bat, this is my weeks training;

    Tue 2 Strength
    Wed 3 speed (9 x 400m)
    Thur 4 recovery (4 or 5 miles)
    Fri 5 Rest
    Sat 6 easy 4 miles + strength
    Sun 7 Long run (8 miles)

    That should get me back on track ;)

    A nice 5 miler taking in Sean Moore park, Sandymount beach and the grass promenade. Nice to go at an easy pace. After the 3 quarter mark, my right foot started to get a bit sore (cramp like) at the top where it meets my shin on the outside. Pointed my foot downwards which stretched the area a little and that seemed to do the trick. Maybe its my trainers that are getting a bit old (Mizuno's purchased July 09) and causing this or maybe its the route (concrete to grass to sand to grass and repeat)? Funnily enough I had no problems on my speed work the previous day (9x400) so it could also be fatigue from this carrying over...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    smmoore79 wrote: »
    Back from a long weekend break. Have done nothing in the last 5 days so feeling a bit outta shape now!!! Off the bat, this is my weeks training;

    Tue 2 Strength
    Wed 3 speed (9 x 400m)
    Thur 4 recovery (4 or 5 miles)
    Fri 5 Rest
    Sat 6 easy 4 miles + strength
    Sun 7 Long run (8 miles)

    That should get me back on track ;)

    Sat 5 miles easy - went ok though the legs felt a little tired.
    Sun 8 miles LSR - Didnt G Ped the route so decided to run for an hour at a comfortable pace. Legs a bit tired at the start but soon forgot about that. The main problem was the wind. So strong in one direction! Half of my run was against the wind and on Sandymount promenade with no cover. Plugged on through and got my reward of finishing without stopping/being in bits etc..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    This weeks running;

    Mon rest
    Tue 3 mile run easy
    Wed BHAA 5km XC hard
    Thur 3 mile easy and strength
    Fri rest
    Sat 3 mile easy
    Sun 9 x 400 mile pace


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    smmoore79 wrote: »
    This weeks running;

    Mon rest
    Tue 3 mile run easy
    Wed BHAA 5km XC hard
    Thur 3 mile easy and strength
    Fri rest
    Sat 3 mile easy
    Sun 9 x 400 mile pace

    BHAA 5km xc tonight at 8. Went for an 'easy' run last night and my calves were very weak/sore. Doesnt bode well for tonight!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Figured I'd reply here, in case others my be interested in commenting.
    smmoore79 wrote: »
    I see your point; I should be up to 12 miles by May just in time for the start of the marathon program. The 8 mile lsr is part of a 10km plan im currently following and that plan should be finished by mid april where i should be up to 10 miles LSR. Then i can focus on marathon specific training..
    Sounds bang on. The intervals will make the speed-work more manageable and the LSRs shouldn't be a problem as they'll be progressive. You're PB is 3:10 for the distance, right? What marathon program are you thinking of following?


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