Time for airsoft lovers to take action!

The Warehouse · 06-03-2009 3:35pm

Tigger wrote: »

so whats to be done

as i see it people are cheating now there is annoying not take yer hits cheating and down right stupit cheating

i would be happy to report cheats to the iaa in its facilituy as player body if i could be assured that the person reported would not face any measure external to the iaa ie that the sanctions etc would be airsoft based

i would be happy to report sites and retailers to the commercial body iararrl or what ever they are called if i could be assured of same

warehouse sez that his proposed body would be prosecuting peeps

i cannot condone that over some toy guns

the underground movement exists and it tates inclusion not exclusion and understanding not straight buck passing to bring it out from the underground

The point of the sytem is self governence. I don't want anyone prosecuted but if they are breaking the law and openly flout the authority (Which some do) then the IAA, IASRA or the kgb have no choice but to inform the gardaí or they are guilty after the fact of enabling them and not reporting it.

Again I don't want anyone arrested or prosecuted but at the end of the day we have to think of our sport and not these gobsheens!

Lets not forget this is to catch guilty site owners aswel as teams/players and to clean up our sport!

moggser · 06-03-2009 3:37pm

all be them toy guns tigger but them toy guns in wrong hands leads to trouble
and having them over the 1j limit puts them in as illegal and if you do something illegal you get appropriate punishment

what if some one you play with gets hurt by a over power aeg?
would you turn a blind eye still??

i know i wouldn

this is not a dig at ya by the way

Tigger · 06-03-2009 3:38pm

The Warehouse wrote: »

The point of the sytem is self governence. I don't want anyone prosecuted but if they are breaking the law and openly flout the authority (Which some do) then the IAA, IASRA or the kgb have no choice but to inform the gardaí or they are guilty after the fact of enabling them and not reporting it.

Again I don't want anyone arrested or prosecuted but at the end of the day we have to think of our sport and not these gobsheens!

Lets not forget this is to catch guilty site owners aswel as teams/players and to clean up our sport!

thats what i said that id site owners are people too

Tigger · 06-03-2009 3:41pm

moggser wrote: »

all be them toy guns tigger but them toy guns in wrong hands leads to trouble
and having them over the 1j limit puts them in as illegal and if you do something illegal you get appropriate punishment

what if some one you play with gets hurt by a over power aeg?
would you turn a blind eye still??

i know i wouldn

this is not a dig at ya by the way

see thats the issue if someone causes someone to be hurt by smuggling a overpowered aeg ontio asite then wo betide them

bit its like speeding (vbb speeding) i'd never report someone for speeding but i might admonish them i might refuse to drive with them if they are crazy

but they'd be fecked if they caused someone to be hurt

moggser · 06-03-2009 3:47pm

Tigger wrote: »

see thats the issue if someone causes someone to be hurt by smuggling a overpowered aeg ontio asite then wo betide them

bit its like speeding (vbb speeding) i'd never report someone for speeding but i might admonish them i might refuse to drive with them if they are crazy

but they'd be fecked if they caused someone to be hurt

ok is it not foolish to presume somone else will do it
i think you might be concerned to much about the factor if you report somone and that somone id's you as the person that reported him/her you might be open to confrontation by that person
which others might feel like to

o1s1n · 06-03-2009 6:21pm

I think it's time to focus this thread as it's getting a bit scatty.

Please bare in mind that we don't usually allow people to discuss +1joule. However we're allowing it in this case - so be careful what you say.

Also, please try not to direct things toward people personally (Or even specific retailers or sites). It's not going to come up with any solutions. If someone for personal reasons doesn't want to report people/sites, fair enough. (However, if you're not going to do it in reality, don't even think about trying to name and shame here)

So in summary of the last 256 posts -

1 - People are cheating
2 - People are using hot AEGs on sites.

Constructive solutions only people.

hoplite · 06-03-2009 6:34pm

Self Governance is the solution here lads.

The vast majority of venues have agreed to try and stamp down on players using hot aegs and cheating.

If we support the sites as they attempt to implement stricter controls then the need to report players will ultimately not arise as you will not be skirmishing with players using hot aegs.

Its a lot easier for a site owner to bar a player then to report them to the authorties. If I am to understand what has been agreed in principal the siteowners will share information on who is barred from one site and apply it to all.

I hope this succeeds and that it is enforced in a consistent and fair manner. Let there be no exceptions for anyone.

And just to clarify I am not suggesting that you are barred if you happen to have the misfortune to have an AEG chrono'd over the limit you stick it in your gear bag use your backup and get the overpowered AEG fixed.

Its people swapping guns and springs and trying to circumnvent the chrono that need to be barred.

At the end of a random game everyone should be asked to chrono their AEGs before returning to the safe zone. If your AEG is hot at that point you have some explaining to do.

hairball · 06-03-2009 6:44pm

hoplite wrote: »

Its people swapping guns and springs and trying to circumnvent the chrono that need to be barred.

At the end of a random game everyone should be asked to chrono their AEGs before returning to the safe zone. If your AEG is hot at that point you have some explaining to do.

Got to agree with the random chrono check, very effective way of keeping tabs on any quick spring changes or other little tricks.

OzCam · 06-03-2009 6:49pm

hairball wrote: »

Got to agree with the random chrono check, very effective way of keeping tabs on any quick spring changes or other little tricks.

...which is what I suggested three days ago. We're starting to go around in circles here.

To act as a deterrent, all they have to do is be unpredictable and be fair. It's not that hard, let's get on with it.

The Warehouse · 06-03-2009 7:29pm

We need a standardized system between sites, you do something wrong on one site and you get the exact same punishment as you would on any site. You get suspended from one site and you get suspended from every site.

You notice a hot gun on a site, then you report it to the site owner/marshall, if a site is constantly allowing hot guns in, you report it to the IAA and they investigate and decide what to do.

A retailer sells you a hot gun, you bring it back and demand they downgrade it. If they knowingly allow you to leave their premises with a hot gun bought from them, you report them to the IAA and they investigate and decide what to do.

From a players point of view, this will ensure that when you buy a gun off a signed up retailer you don't have to worry about being in possession of an illegal firearm and when you go to a site you don't have to worry about there being hot guns in use.

The other side of the system is for site owners and marshalls (If Rathbeggan catch a few cheaters they can call us and we will know before they even get here), so we can catch the cheaters. This way the site owners/retailers are watching the teams/players, the players are watching us and the IAA are watching us all while we watch them. There will be no chance of anyone getting away with any more messing.

hrta · 06-03-2009 9:42pm

Could we put a poster togetter, to display at the site's, to say some thing like, if you break the rule's at this site, you have just broke the rule's at all these site's below, and have a list of all the site's signed up to the system.

G-TAC · 06-03-2009 10:01pm

hrta wrote: »

Could we put a poster togetter, to display at the site's, to say some thing like, if you break the rule's at this site, you have just broke the rule's at all these site's below, and have a list of all the site's signed up to the system.

Brillant idea Paul

Airsoft Reloded · 06-03-2009 10:05pm

hrta wrote: »

Could we put a poster togetter, to display at the site's, to say some thing like, if you break the rule's at this site, you have just broke the rule's at all these site's below, and have a list of all the site's signed up to the system.

That is an excellent idea Pual, we could also include a code of conduct in our waivers or something. incourage all players and teams to sign up to it and when we have to punish them we could point out that they signed the code of conduct.

hrta · 06-03-2009 10:15pm

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

That is an excellent idea Pual, we could also include a code of conduct in our waivers or something. incourage all players and teams to sign up to it and when we have to punish them we could point out that they signed the code of conduct.

It's in my waiver, all ready, i think all the site's ar using a copy of my waiver.

gerrowadat · 06-03-2009 10:28pm

Fair play, respect, and compliance with the law is also covered under the IAA member code of conduct : http://irishairsoft.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/iaa-code-of-conduct.pdf

If there is someone who is an IAA member and is knowingly flaunting the Code of Conduct, we've already got discplinary measures that we can follow through on.

I'd imagine it would be also fine to use our Code of Conduct on sites, to make sure everyone has signed up to something concrete (even if they're not a member).

Dave
IAA Vice-Chair

Tigger · 07-03-2009 11:15am

hoplite wrote: »

Self Governance is the solution here lads.

thats my point we keep it to ourselves and show we can deal

The vast majority of venues have agreed to try and stamp down on players using hot aegs and cheating.

If we support the sites as they attempt to implement stricter controls then the need to report players will ultimately not arise as you will not be skirmishing with players using hot aegs.

Its a lot easier for a site owner to bar a player then to report them to the authorties. If I am to understand what has been agreed in principal the siteowners will share information on who is barred from one site and apply it to all.

I hope this succeeds and that it is enforced in a consistent and fair manner. Let there be no exceptions for anyone.

And just to clarify I am not suggesting that you are barred if you happen to have the misfortune to have an AEG chrono'd over the limit you stick it in your gear bag use your backup and get the overpowered AEG fixed.

Its people swapping guns and springs and trying to circumnvent the chrono that need to be barred.

]

'zactly and a black list will do that

At the end of a random game everyone should be asked to chrono their AEGs before returning to the safe zone. If your AEG is hot at that point you have some explaining to do.

yup briulliant idea

martin (gtac) did that with me once he pulled me aside and chronoed my saw because people thought it "must" be over because its big

at the time itr was doing like 280 on .2 which was bad for my airsoft -pen1s

Airsoft Reloded · 07-03-2009 11:39am

gerrowadat wrote: »

Fair play, respect, and compliance with the law is also covered under the IAA member code of conduct : http://irishairsoft.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/iaa-code-of-conduct.pdf

If there is someone who is an IAA member and is knowingly flaunting the Code of Conduct, we've already got discplinary measures that we can follow through on.

I'd imagine it would be also fine to use our Code of Conduct on sites, to make sure everyone has signed up to something concrete (even if they're not a member).

Dave
IAA Vice-Chair

Maybe we can copy yours into our own site rules? That makes organisation a lot easier!

vkchris · 08-03-2009 12:41pm

Ok so when you get banned from one site you get banned from all sites. But what happens when you do get bannned is it for a certain time period or is it you stop playing airsoft in ireland for good? There should be a three strike system or at least you get a couple of warnings before you are completely banned if a lifetime ban is given.

Also i assume it it is only when you bring a hot rifle into the gameing area? i dont want to be banned for accidently bringing a hot rifle to a site.
I love airsoft and i think this system will help a lot with cheating but i think a lifetime ban is much too hard of a punishment.I suggest a 6 month ban or something and then for repeat offenders longer bans can come in.

I play as a sniper and the amount of times a have looked down my scope hit someone and see them look around to see if anyone is close and then just play on is remarkable. People seem to have the idea that if they cant see anyone then no one can have hit them. And i get annoyed over this but still i would never wish for someone to be banned for it.

I think we can also play without this new system if everyone just talks to their marshalls and even confronts the players that are responsible then we can get over it. The marshalling in my site deals with cheaters well a fireing squad and makeing people leave early if they persist.I think that is all we need.

Which ever way this system goes i think the game will get better. The new system will enforce the rules and even without it i think people will have learned to just confront people more the reason half of us play airsoft is because the people are so friendly so if you think someone is cheating inform your marshall and have a friendly word with the player. If they are the kind of person we want playing the sport they will learn from it and play a better game.

TheDoc · 08-03-2009 1:37pm

Has there been discussion on what type of system is been put into place?

To be very honest, I think there is going to be major issues. And I would hope the grasping net is efficent enough that genuine mistakes are been accounted for.

We have had many discussions in the past about actual site chronographing. Those of a more logical and physics mind can maybe clarify, but how exactly do we go about the hot gun scenario?

My guns seems to chrono out of this world in some places, they have never been hot, but just stupid readings. HRTa I usually always chrono in around 250 odd with hop fully off, warehouse, I've had guns come in 140 fps, and 1 j on the limit. I had a JG g36c in GTAC come in at 460fps, the same gun that did 300 fps everywhere else.

So if I go to a site, and my gun comes in hot, what happens? Do I get turned away? Am I put up as a scapegoat. There is two chronographs I trust in this country. The one in the shop where I work, and the one in the warehouse. There is too much variance outdoors, and theres to many ****ed up readings.
If anyone of my guns come in hot anywhere, I contest it. I know for a fact all my guns are below the limit, all around 300 fps. So if this sort of system is to be put in place, to uphold its integrity, chronographing needs to be done the same everywhere, and in the same conditions. IE, indoors or something. Like I said I dont know the ins and outs, but from what I've been told, and witnessed, the slightest bit of sunlight, wind etc can have a serious effect ( and not the ****ing doppler effect : / ) I have to say most of the times I've got obscure readings, my guns seem to be extremely low, so if chronographs on sites are seeing my gun as firing 240fps when I know its 300fps, whats the story with guns that register 300fps?

Another point that was brought up was cutting the snake by the head, at source. Making sure items are legal at purchase. I'm not going to dive much into this point, we all know what is what. And from my point of view, sweet **** all has been done about it. Hard working legit stores are been bent over a table to be taking for a ride by cowboys.

This kindly brings us onto our last point, cheating. I think its good to see all the site owners getting together to try sort this out, but I have to pose the question, are you going to man up about it, and follow through with it. I've stood witness to site owners chronographing hot guns, and seeing cheating happening, and not doing anything about it. It is all great to see people coming together here, but is it all a PR stunt or are we actually going to see improvements.

I want to know, for sure, that if I am caught cheating in the Warehouse, I'm going to get stinked. I'm mates with the guys there, we get on well, I want to know can site owners, step up to the plate even if it means barring their best customers, their friends, or their own teams.

It is no good throwing a noob or new player every week onto your list to look like your meeting a quota. The problem needs to be stamped out. I think it geuinely is hitting sites, it must be. If I personally, will not attend certain sites because of the cheating aspect, there must be more like me. And it is a pity, cause most of the sites I will not go to, are probably the best ones.

So I'll sit back and see what happens really. But for me, the damage has been done. Until I see some people getting banned, until I see the cheaters that I know are filthy cheats, getting banned, then I'll start to throw my business around to other sites.

But then again this could easily go up in smoke. If like stated before, a marshall for example shoots me in the fastmag, I continue playing because obviously I do not feel it. And they get twitchy fingers looking to set an example, it takes only this sort of incident to bring your system crashing down.

So I would think long and hard about how you are going to go about this, seek legal advise on the legal aspects to it, seek veteran player advise also. Get people in different loadouts to go out, and have the players give feedback to what areas they can feel the hit. I actually had a marshall before call me a cheater because I didnt feel a hit against my fastmag.... So I think there needs to be some player consultation on this also, to see what genuinely is a hit, and what isnt.

And also, I personally, have experienced a stupid amount of cheating in most sites. And I would be more then welcome to throw some advice to anyone who wants it, as to how people are going about this cheating, how hot guns are being slipped through the nets, and how people are getting away with blatant cheating.

TheDoc · 08-03-2009 1:55pm

vkchris wrote: »

Ok so when you get banned from one site you get banned from all sites. But what happens when you do get bannned is it for a certain time period or is it you stop playing airsoft in ireland for good? There should be a three strike system or at least you get a couple of warnings before you are completely banned if a lifetime ban is given.

Also i assume it it is only when you bring a hot rifle into the gameing area? i dont want to be banned for accidently bringing a hot rifle to a site.
I love airsoft and i think this system will help a lot with cheating but i think a lifetime ban is much too hard of a punishment.I suggest a 6 month ban or something and then for repeat offenders longer bans can come in.

I play as a sniper and the amount of times a have looked down my scope hit someone and see them look around to see if anyone is close and then just play on is remarkable. People seem to have the idea that if they cant see anyone then no one can have hit them. And i get annoyed over this but still i would never wish for someone to be banned for it.

I think we can also play without this new system if everyone just talks to their marshalls and even confronts the players that are responsible then we can get over it. The marshalling in my site deals with cheaters well a fireing squad and makeing people leave early if they persist.I think that is all we need.

Which ever way this system goes i think the game will get better. The new system will enforce the rules and even without it i think people will have learned to just confront people more the reason half of us play airsoft is because the people are so friendly so if you think someone is cheating inform your marshall and have a friendly word with the player. If they are the kind of person we want playing the sport they will learn from it and play a better game.

I've always had problems with firing squads. I have seen videos from Fingal etc of firing squads happening. What amazes me is there are people put in front of all to see, for cheating, shot at for 2 minutes, then it seems to be forgotten about? I remember seeing the first few videos, then seeing these people out playing....I'd rather see someone banned for 2 weeks then shot at.

Also, it personally gave me alot of stink. I was put into a firing squad in simcom for losing a game, which I thought was totally stupid, lose a game then get absolutely riddled. I believe the term is "overkill" which is firmly frowned upon in airsoft worldwide.

But the real problem was people seeing me in this video, then assuming i was there for cheating. And i was approached numerous of times in work and out playing, along with site marshalls and owners, querying me about my appearance in that video. I didnt particularly mind the firing squad ( you can see im the only one standing face on) and its for craic and giggles yeah sound enough. But its when it sends the wrong message that annoys me.

hoplite · 08-03-2009 2:04pm

Firing squads do nothing for airsoft imho I'd actually like to see them stopped at IAA/IASRA affiliated sites.

Exclusion from a game for cheating and banning for repeated offenses will be far more effective.

Nobody should be banned if they chrono a gun at the start of a skirmish and its over the limit hopefully you will have a backup which is ok and you can play on. At least you were willing to chrono it and as surprised as anyone else with the reading.

TheDoc · 08-03-2009 2:19pm

hoplite wrote: »

Firing squads do nothing for airsoft imho I'd actually like to see them stopped at IAA/IASRA affiliated sites.

Exclusion from a game for cheating and banning for repeated offenses will be far more effective.

Nobody should be banned if they chrono a gun at the start of a skirmish and its over the limit hopefully you will have a backup which is ok and you can play on. At least you were willing to chrono it and as surprised as anyone else with the reading.

My concern is when I always say " wow holy ****, thats not right" are marshalls etc going " o here we go again someone trying to trick me" I hope my reputation proceeds me in these matters, but then again who knows.

There will definetly need to be standards set for chronographing should something like this be creditable.

G3-Nut · 08-03-2009 2:38pm

like i always say firing squads are scummy....

being a part of a firing squad just brings you down to the same level as the guy who didnt take hits...

firing squads in my eyes are a form of bullying and it is demeaning to be on the receiving end of one, i would gladly leave the site rather than stand in front of a firing squad...its not that im afraid of getting hit, why most of the time a volunteer to test out new guns lol, i stood 15 feet in front of a lipo powered gun, to see how it would feel to get hit so many times in just a few seconds of shooting...

But best of luck to any site that tries to put me in front of a firing squad, considering i always take my hits(when i am aware of it of course, i used to wear a molle vest so im pretty sure there was times i didnt feel/hear a hit), so i doubt i will ever be asked to stand in front of one, and if im asked to be a part of the firing squad itself, id tell that person to go shove it up ther a$$, im no bully, and i dont intend on being one either....

as for the chronoing issue, doc is right about chronoing outdoors, it can seriously toss a reading

vkchris · 08-03-2009 4:03pm

I know what you mean about the fireing squad thing i dont think it is a great system i think its just more of a deterrent than anything else. People tend to not want to be riddled to ***t so in that sense it kind of works however im not much a fan myself. Its not fun it just kills the whole experience. But like i said ive never seen this actualy happen at a site its just mentioned before games as a deterrent.

However thing main thing i was trying to point out was that kicking people off the site for the day after they have been warned a couple of times works i think.

If the people persist to cheat they can be banned for longer so i think keeping a record of cheaters is a good idea but sharing that list with other sites is not. For me being banned from my site would mean adding a couple of hours onto the trip to go skirmish and that would be punishment enough.And if the sport is marshalled correctly if the person cheats at another site they shouldnt need a list to be able to spot it.

Everyone learns from their mistakes so yes there should be a ban but a ban that will stop that person playing the sport in this country for good is just spiteful and doesnt show well for the airsoft community. Its like a death penalty you make a mistake and its game over its wrong and doesnt represent the sport right.. Like doc said its easy to have a gun chrono hot with the variantions in tempeture etc and its easy to not feel a hit. So to see someone banned from the sport for that is wrong and im not going to suppourt a system that can see me or anyone else unrightfuly kicked from the sport.

A system where sites keep records of cheaters a system that improves marshalling and sets a common code of conduct and a common LIMITED ban for breaking the rules i can suppourt.

Fallschirmjager · 08-03-2009 6:26pm

there is an issue with firing squads which i feel is worth consideration. Firstly a ban makes us look more professional but here is the headline in the herald

17 year looses hearing with firing squad

sooner of later with the volume of rounds, someone is going to get hurt and when they do little johnny and his mammy will be on the radio explaining how he was picked on, is now deaf in an ear due to an errant bb and it should be banned. we will have the IAA trying to recover the situation and we will be in deep crap before we know where we are. Now of course the same thing can happen in game, but you take your chances and signed in but this firing squad can be presented far far differently. Add to that, the court appearances, including you for partaking, the site owners and we have a huge mess on our hands. far fetched i know...but we need to think how something can be presented, it wont matter if its real or imagined.

i say ban, its the only way to be sure....

edit: one other thing, the ban length is a classic thing to be discussed with members of the IAA. I dont think its fair to dump on the IAA leaders or sites (although they can obviously decide for themselves also). this is exactly the type of topic that we the players can agree on.

vkchris · 08-03-2009 7:15pm

Ok the fireing squad thing is getting way out of hand never has anyone been forced to be shot its for fun and i have never seen one even take place on a skirimish day.

Lads there are much bigger things to be worrying bout than trying to put bans on things which hardly ever happen. lets worry about more important issues first.No offense falls im not saying there good and id love to get rid of them aswell but thats not what this thread is about. Hopefully we will have the time to iron out all the kinks in the game later when we have a safe sport.

Fallschirmjager · 08-03-2009 7:34pm

sorry, i am talking about cheating, perhaps i didnt explain.

i think like any other sport when you are caught cheating, you get banned. if we adopt banning, it lines us up with other sports. thats what i meant by above. what i was trying (and obviously badly) to explain is how a firing squad can (and since it is used currently so therefore doesnt work anyways) cause us other issues. hopefully that clarifies.

TheDoc · 08-03-2009 7:39pm

vkchris wrote: »

Ok the fireing squad thing is getting way out of hand never has anyone been forced to be shot its for fun and i have never seen one even take place on a skirimish day.

Lads there are much bigger things to be worrying bout than trying to put bans on things which hardly ever happen. lets worry about more important issues first.No offense falls im not saying there good and id love to get rid of them aswell but thats not what this thread is about. Hopefully we will have the time to iron out all the kinks in the game later when we have a safe sport.

firing squads is a topic for another day, you may say you can just not partake, but there is alot of peer pressure around them, I know I was not given a choice to sit it out...

Rhinocharge · 08-03-2009 8:00pm

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

firing squads is a topic for another day, you may say you can just not partake, but there is alot of peer pressure around them, I know I was not given a choice to sit it out...

Which is bullying, another common problem & needs to be added to the list of priorities.

TheDoc · 08-03-2009 8:16pm

Rhinocharge wrote: »

Which is bullying, another common problem & needs to be added to the list of priorities.

Bullying?!?! Now theres something I dont think ive witnessed before, big problem?

Rhinocharge · 08-03-2009 8:28pm

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

Bullying?!?! Now theres something I dont think ive witnessed before, big problem?

If a customer is forced to stand & be shot in a firing squad, that's bullying. I haven't witnessed it myself but I've recieved complaints from parents for something that happens at certain venues.

I presume the majority of the venues & clubs enforce their respect & dignity policy.

I don't consider firing squads to be sportsmanship like.

FingalAirsoft · 08-03-2009 8:53pm

I've always had problems with firing squads. I have seen videos from Fingal etc of firing squads happening. What amazes me is there are people put in front of all to see, for cheating, shot at for 2 minutes, then it seems to be forgotten about? I remember seeing the first few videos, then seeing these people out playing....I'd rather see someone banned for 2 weeks then shot at.

I'm going to correct you Doc as we are mentioned, we have never done a firing squad for more than 2 seconds! 2 minutes would just be insane:eek: and it would be stupid, the firing squad is never compulsory!
It has to be said that it has virtually cut out cheating on our site, so much so that it has been months since a firing squad has been used on our site.
We have also banned players for 1 month at a time for constant cheating or aggressive behaviour, the players all ways come back a more honest and honourable player I find.
Now we don't feel the need for firing squads and just ask a cheating player to leave the game on the first instance and on the second leave the site.

Bren

moggser · 08-03-2009 9:00pm

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

I'm going to correct you Doc as we are mentioned, we have never done a firing squad for more than 2 seconds! 2 minutes would just be insane:eek: and it would be stupid, the firing squad is never compulsory!
It has to be said that it has virtually cut out cheating on our site, so much so that it has been months since a firing squad has been used on our site.
We have also banned players for 1 month at a time for constant cheating or aggressive behaviour, the players all ways come back a more honest and honourable player I find.
Now we don't feel the need for firing squads and just ask a cheating player to leave the game on the first instance and on the second leave the site.

Bren

on that note ok you say that your firing squad was not 2 mins long but 2 seconds? aint it a waste of time any way notto mention a waste of bb's too???
for the record i was with Doc in the 2 minute firing Squad he mentioned earlier on and that was a waste , we lost a game and because certain players where bored they decided to put up a firng squad so they could get their airsoft penis on coz they were sick of waitin for the game to end

Puding · 08-03-2009 9:07pm

Firing squads are a childish and imature way of solving problems, that send all the wrong signals to people outside of the sports and i was very worryed to see time of activity documented as well in AIM magazine, but as others have said that is a topic for another time.

FingalAirsoft · 08-03-2009 9:12pm

moggser wrote: »

on that note ok you say that your firing squad was not 2 mins long but 2 seconds? aint it a waste of time any way notto mention a waste of bb's too???
for the record i was with Doc in the 2 minute firing Squad he mentioned earlier on and that was a waste , we lost a game and because certain players where bored they decided to put up a firng squad so they could get their airsoft penis on coz they were sick of waitin for the game to end

Again I say that 2 minutes is bloody stupid:eek: don't go back to that site until they have stopped that practice. And if you read my post above we are more or less stopping the practice as it has served it's purpose.

moggser · 08-03-2009 9:15pm

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

Again I say that 2 minutes is bloody stupid:eek: don't go back to that site until they have stopped that practice. And if you read my post above we are more or less stopping the practice as it has served it's purpose.

oh i belive ya when ya say it it wasn directed at you it was in conversation
the whole idea of it is a no no and ive not been back to that site or nor will i because of that and other reasons ok so think we should all leave the firing squad thing behind for another radio show all together and get back on track before we get a firing squad of infractions:):)

Airsoft Reloded · 08-03-2009 9:26pm

Puding wrote: »

as others have said that is a topic for another time.

I disagree, people seem willing to state things in this thread that they wouldn't state otherwise. I assume its because there is a few of us on it and none of us have an issue with telling the truth.

We all have a chance here to air the dirty laundry so to speak!

If firing squads are something that you disagree with then just say that and force the issue. We never done them because we were told by our solicitors that it is technically assault!

Now we should leave it out with Fingal, Bren has said that they are not doing it anymore so that should be enough!

Masada · 08-03-2009 9:34pm

I too think firing squads are pointless, and in some cases its seen as a laugh for a player to do in front of his mates. i dont think its much of a deterant really.

I wouldnt go so far as to call it bullying but i can see how a person would be forced into doing it so as not to stand out as the wimp.

That said, this thread is really about the people who use hot guns and people who persistently cheat, No point in going down the road of "this site does this, that site does that" etc etc.

Airsoft Reloded · 08-03-2009 9:47pm

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

I would say that is well off the mark there Brian

Our monthly bills are over €17,000 a month so I wouldn't say its to far off the mark there Bren!

Airsoft Reloded · 08-03-2009 9:52pm

Masada wrote: »

No point in going down the road of "this site does this, that site does that" etc etc.

Again I disagree, I think that is exactly why I started this thread.

To say, that team cheats, the site allows hot guns and that retailer allows hot guns. Mostly though to give other people a platform to voice their complaints.

We are not exempt either, we can stand by our record and have no problem facing criticism(that is to say that we didn't start this thread to "dog the other sites"), we are opening an outdoor site soon and will have to face these issues also!

moggser · 08-03-2009 9:57pm

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Again I disagree, I think that is exactly why I started this thread.

To say, that team cheats, the site allows hot guns and that retailer allows hot guns. Mostly though to give other people a platform to voice their complaints.

We are not exempt either, we can stand by our record and have no problem facing criticism(that is to say that we didn't start this thread to "dog the other sites"), we are opening an outdoor site soon and will have to face these issues also!

im not sure thats what he ment by that what i took out of that was he means there is no point in derailing the thread when it originally started as something totally different to what we're talking about now! trying to keep on topic is what he was getting at and no one gets any infractions

o1s1n · 08-03-2009 11:01pm

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Again I disagree, I think that is exactly why I started this thread.

The user Boroimhe started this thread. You do know you're only meant to have one account, right?

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

To say, that team cheats, the site allows hot guns and that retailer allows hot guns. Mostly though to give other people a platform to voice their complaints.

As I have said recently enough not to do that here.

If you have a complaint bring it directly to the site/team whoever. Don't moan and bitch about it on here but in reality do absolutely nothing. This is not a soapbox/blog/complaints handling site. It's a discussion forum. We're here to discuss how to resolve this. Not point fingers and accuse people.

TheDoc · 08-03-2009 11:08pm

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

I'm going to correct you Doc as we are mentioned, we have never done a firing squad for more than 2 seconds! 2 minutes would just be insane:eek: and it would be stupid, the firing squad is never compulsory!
It has to be said that it has virtually cut out cheating on our site, so much so that it has been months since a firing squad has been used on our site.
We have also banned players for 1 month at a time for constant cheating or aggressive behaviour, the players all ways come back a more honest and honourable player I find.
Now we don't feel the need for firing squads and just ask a cheating player to leave the game on the first instance and on the second leave the site.

Bren

I should apologise as i looked back over the videos and they were infact only a few seconds. I was probably caught up in my head of other incidents. I do apologise.

tonky · 09-03-2009 1:13am

The whole point of the 'firing squad' was to administer a short sharp lesson to wrongdoers - (not taking hits, dead man talking etc). There was never a suggestion of bullying - You are caught in the wrong, you take your punishment like a man (or woman) (2 seconds max) in front of everyone. Lesson learned - you don't do it again.
That's just my 2c, it worked for me.
Really, this should be local site policy, Too many rules and no-no's will just push the sport underground, which benefits no-one.

G3-Nut · 09-03-2009 1:45am

tonky wrote: »

The whole point of the 'firing squad' was to administer a short sharp lesson to wrongdoers - (not taking hits, dead man talking etc). There was never a suggestion of bullying - You are caught in the wrong, you take your punishment like a man (or woman) (2 seconds max) in front of everyone. Lesson learned - you don't do it again.
Unfortunately, as in many other walks of life, the whiners and PC brigade bale in and stick in the boot.
That's just my 2c, it worked for me.
Really, this should be local site policy, Too many rules and no-no's will just push the sport underground, which benefits no-one.

ive never been infront of one, but its simple, you get some 14 year old kid getting riddled by 20 guys twice his age...demeaning, hurtfull, and just shows a dark, caveman style of justice...instead of a smart approach to cheating, firing squads are the short cut that cause as much damage to our sport as they fix...its a 50/50 issue

in fairness it does make people take their hits i understand this, but it also makes some people look at the sport the wrong way, especially parents...rememer, kids are the future of our sport, if we have them being dissalowed to play, who is gonna take over when were in rags lol:rolleyes:

So lads, what is the progress on this joint venture of sites to curb cheating...is it looking good or bad

tonky · 09-03-2009 2:02am

Fair point. previous post edited.

G3-Nut · 09-03-2009 2:41am

tonky wrote: »

Fair point. previous post edited.

previous post edited:D

TheDoc · 09-03-2009 9:44am

tonky wrote: »

Fair point. previous post edited.

I understand your point. There is some things or people that can be too anal and can ruin things in the long term. Like I said there is a video of me there face on to a firing squad getting drilled, for more then two seconds. Problem I've witnessed is, if it was not me, and a young teenager, he would not be asked " Would you like to opt out?" He would get " a stop being a big bitch and get in there come on you have too" the problem is peer pressure.

Especially younger or newer players, feeling they have to do this, when in reality no one has to do anything they feel uncomfortable with. It is just about using common sense.

Like vip/hostage scenarios. I never grab people and start patting them down, I just tap them on the shoulder and say " ok your searched, you cannot use any weapons" As some people do have a problem with being patted down and I totally respect that. There is laws there too. Its not being all anal and pc, it is just about respecting fellow players, and avoiding putting someone into an awkward situation.

tonky · 09-03-2009 1:33pm

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

Especially younger or newer players, feeling they have to do this, when in reality no one has to do anything they feel uncomfortable with. It is just about using common sense.

That's fair comment. I will try and put myself in the boots of a newcomer before posting, remember how f***ing awkward I was at 15 or 17.
Getting old and watching too much Unit.

Cheers.

Tigger · 09-03-2009 1:35pm

firing squads?

are ye trying to get the game a bad name

i'd ask that firing squad discussion be banned from here by concensus at leasrt if not by the mods, stupiddists thing i ever heard

Time for airsoft lovers to take action!

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