Time for airsoft lovers to take action!

Boroimhe

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

You'd need to consider what is an obvious accident though, in the case of an accident, an honest believeable one, no name should be taken, but a mental note for if it happens again.

There has to be some trust in players all the same.

This point has already been taken, lets keep it going forward lads!

Boroimhe

Lads we have covered the point of weeding the honest players out of the black list. Doc provided a good format, now what we need is for other sites to sign up!

Any more ideas that haven't been covered?

k99_64

I remember researching airsoft before starting playing the game and I was convinced that it was going to be a very strict and rule enforced game. ie safety safety safety.

I went skirmishing with defdude (one of the most epic people ever) and while he warned me about people not taking hits i thought that it was very rare. I truly loved playing airsoft but the first thing that made me wary was when i got hit and i started walking back with hand up (tbh i dont usually shout HIT!) and one of my team said "here i need ya just respawn here".

On another site and what truly irritated me was a russian fellow kept firing shots in the safe zone or he would fire rounds into clear areas but it would be at a time when no one had masks on. I didnt say anything as no one else seemed alarmed so i thought that perhaps this was normal.

On that site again i couldn't believe the power out of some of the aeg's firing (my god they hurt) and out ranging everything i could throw at them.

I always take the hits i feel ( in the warehouse much to the annoyance of team-mate and surprise of a marshal "How did ya get hit from there!!?"). Once i didnt feel the shots and i apologized to the player and the Marshall.

Im glad this thread was made as it is a issue that needs to be addressed.

Ps: a point i believe that needs more spotlight is the shouting and being aggressive at other players.

Soz about length

Hivemind187

k99_64 wrote: »

Ps: a point i believe that needs more spotlight is the shouting and being aggressive at other players.

Well said that man.

Rhinocharge

iceage wrote: »

Maybe a pointless suggestion, but the "3 strikes an your out" rule. Does it have any place here?

The way to prevent cheaters is simple, every airsofter joins the IAA, the card is issued. Every players signs a best practice contract. If your caught cheating, your number is taken, 3 strikes & your card is cancelled.
The IAA issue list of cancelled cheater cards. Venues check the list on inspection. Cheaters are refused admission. You can't barr someone without a barring order.
For new players, rentals are issued, until they own a card.
Cheating is a small problem that affects the community.

Hot guns, well that affects the sport.
We downgrade guns every week for the community.
Some retailers are knowingly selling overpowered guns. The authorities know & still nothing has been done. I'm sick of the double standards.
The worst part is, most of the community know whom these retailers are, but instead of boycotting them, the community continue to buy.
The community need to set the rules, not the IAA, the retailers or venues, the players need to set the rules. We as a community need to make a stand.

Puding

Im sorry but this thread is getting rather depressing, there are a number of sites in Ireland that go out of there way to do it the right way week in week out.

I'm sorry but this idea of some sort of system is great on paper, but why do think it is not used anywhere else?

iceage

JonAnderton wrote: »

I think it depends on the circumstances of the claims. If someone is not taking hits because of their kit, then thats one thing (but should that mean that this person gets away with that excuse everytime-"Sorry marshal, It's this plated vest you see, I can't feel it, good job you saw it") Not in the case mentioned above, but you can see how it could be used. I shot someone in a mag pouch on his side once, he didn't take the hit. I thought '****er, take the hit' but then I thought 1) He probably didn't feel it and 2) If I had 'really' made that shot he probably wouldn't have been taken out anyway.. so I carried on

If someone is blatently seen being shot in the chest (or the back running away... .. He knows who I'm talking about) and you know theycan feel it.. then not so many chances.

My first skirmish!!!! I was protecting the kid, using my body as a shield!! Shot in the back like a dog!!

Maybe thats why paintball works really well, you can't miss the big blobs of red gloss all over your face :P

Hivemind187

Puding wrote: »

Im sorry but this thread is getting rather depressing, there are a number of sites in Ireland that go out of there way to do it the right way week in week out.

Here here!

Boroimhe

N.O.I.P. wrote: »

That may not be a financially viable option for all sites.

Our overheads are 16 times that of other sites and we do it! We are the site that it is not a financially viable option for but we still do it. Thats not a dig at other site, just my honest to god opinion!

N.O.I.P. wrote: »

You agree I've been typing to long!!!
I don't need to take this abuse from you, Ive got dozens of people dying to abuse me

Abuse?

Boroimhe

Puding wrote: »

Im sorry but this thread is getting rather depressing, there are a number of sites in Ireland that go out of there way to do it the right way week in week out.

I'm sorry but this idea of some sort of system is great on paper, but why do think it is not used anywhere else?

True, but there are still a lot of them that don't. Whatever floats your boat and all that, if it works for us then lets do it! Maybe others will follow suit!

Boroimhe

Rhinocharge wrote: »

The way to prevent cheaters is simple, every airsofter joins the IAA, the card is issued. Every players signs a best practice contract. If your caught cheating, your number is taken, 3 strikes & your card is cancelled.
The IAA issue list of cancelled cheater cards. Venues check the list on inspection. Cheaters are refused admission. You can't barr someone without a barring order.
For new players, rentals are issued, until they own a card.
Cheating is a small problem that affects the community.

Hot guns, well that affects the sport.
We downgrade guns every week for the community.
Some retailers are knowingly selling overpowered guns. The authorities know & still nothing has been done. I'm sick of the double standards.
The worst part is, most of the community know whom these retailers are, but instead of boycotting them, the community continue to buy.
The community need to set the rules, not the IAA, the retailers or venues, the players need to set the rules. We as a community need to make a stand.

That would be a great idea Rhino, the only problem is that you would have to get everyone to pay the sign up fee (which they should) and a lot of people would say no!

On a side note, we at The Warehouse don't buy off certain retailers because of their reputation so we are rite there with you brother!

JonAnderton

iceage wrote: »

My first skirmish!!!! I was protecting the kid, using my body as a shield!! Shot in the back like a dog!!

Maybe thats why paintball works really well, you can't miss the big blobs of red gloss all over your face :P

In fairness, the tumble roll in the high grass (whether after taking a hit or avoiding getting one, was impressive, and almost in slow motion)...:D

Out of interest, for the sites, how many one time only people attened the sites... ie, non members, non regulars... just the odd time? and of these, how many abide by the code of ethics?

ps. I nominate Iceage to be the inaugral name on the Great Banning Blacklist Database of Ireland)

iceage

Boroimhe wrote: »

That would be a great idea Rhino, the only problem is that you would have to get everyone to pay the sign up fee (which they should) and a lot of people would say no!

On a side note, we at The Warehouse don't buy off certain retailers because of their reputation so we are rite there with you brother!

Its a tenner now FFS, thats less than a bottle of bb's and a bag of chips :P (meant in the nicest possible way!)

N.O.I.P.

Boroimhe wrote: »

Our overheads are 16 times that of other sites and we do it! We are the site that it is not a financially viable option for but we still do it. Thats not a dig at other site, just my honest to god opinion!

Its not really comparing like and like though is it. The warehouse is comparitively small (when compared to some of the larger outdoor sites) requiring fewer marshalls and you have a tower (apparently, havent managed to get out to you guys so far) which provides a greater field of view and also cuts down on the amount of marshalls required. Outdoor sites would require a much larger number of marshalls and if they are all employees I would imagine the running costs would be crippling. Anyway each sites finances are their own business. Having all marshalls on a site be employees holds no particular advantage in my opinion.

Abuse?

Relax its a Ghostbusters quote man

Boroimhe

Rite lads as I have said I have pm'd a lot of site owners so what we have to do now is wait and see if they want to sign up to this system. If they do I will post who signed up and start organizing it and sure if not what can we do!

fayer

OzCam wrote: »

We need to get an opinion from fayer, if we can drag him out from under the pile of books, about the legal issues (slander/libel etc) of doing a name-and-shame.

He is buried under a pile of books at the moment and should not be reading boards

I have looked into the legal requirements of sports disciplinary sub-committees before and reviewed other ones from different sports. It can be done, but be under no illusion, it requires more than a large amount of work and people who don't mind having their processes and actions being reviewed in court and taking the consequences of that, to stand up and put their names to it.

But hell, If soccer can do it I'm sure we can

Boroimhe

N.O.I.P. wrote: »

Its not really comparing like and like though is it. The warehouse is comparitively small (when compared to some of the larger outdoor sites) requiring fewer marshalls and you have a tower (apparently, havent managed to get out to you guys so far) which provides a greater field of view and also cuts down on the amount of marshalls required. Outdoor sites would require a much larger number of marshalls and if they are all employees I would imagine the running costs would be crippling. Anyway each sites finances are their own business. Having all marshalls on a site be employees holds no particular advantage in my opinion.

I know but the amount of funds available to outdoor sites due to minimal expenses leaves a lot of money for part time marshalls.. I know this for a fact because I own a site and understand the whole incomings/outcomings buzz!

We have four part time marshalls that we pay every week to make sure we have enough eyes out there!

N.O.I.P. wrote: »

Relax its a Ghostbusters quote man

Cool!

iceage

JonAnderton wrote: »

In fairness, the tumble roll in the high grass (whether after taking a hit or avoiding getting one, was impressive, and almost in slow motion)...:D

Out of interest, for the sites, how many one time only people attened the sites... ie, non members, non regulars... just the odd time? and of these, how many abide by the code of ethics?

ps. I nominate Iceage to be the inaugral name on the Great Banning Blacklist Database of Ireland)

Seconded!!! Waaaaaaaaaaayyy, first on the list! :cool:

I was a Noob, didn't know any better.

The swat roll was really a cover up for falling over the fence! falling with style I like to call it.

Boroimhe

fayer wrote: »

He is buried under a pile of books at the moment and should not be reading boards

I have looked into the legal requirements of sports disciplinary sub-committees before and reviewed other ones from different sports. It can be done, but be under no illusion, it requires more than a large amount of work and people who don't mind having their processes and actions being reviewed in court and taking the consequences of that, to stand up and put their names to it.

But hell, If soccer can do it I'm sure we can

We have no problem facing the consequences and no problem with the extra work load Steve, sure we work here 7 days a week anyway.

It has to be done so lets do it, can I ask your opinion on the matter?

fayer

Boroimhe wrote: »

We have no problem facing the consequences and no problem with the extra work load Steve, sure we work here 7 days a week anyway.

It has to be done so lets do it, can I ask your opinion on the matter?

My personal opinion is that site bans will be what brings the rule breakers into line and resolve many of the issues we are having.

When people start to see they do not have anywhere to play they will change their tune.

As per the requirements on how to set something like this up and not have you skirmishing in bankruptcy court after the first Judaical appeal and you are sued into the next credit crunch, that is best discussed round table as you are talking about more paperwork than a small rain forest can produce :eek:

The Warehouse

fayer wrote: »

My personal opinion is that site bans will be what brings the rule breakers into line and resolve many of the issues we are having.

When people start to see they do not have anywhere to play they will change their tune.

As per the requirements on how to set something like this up and not have you skirmishing in bankruptcy court after the first Judaical appeal and you are sued into the next credit crunch, that is best discussed round table as you are talking about more paperwork than a small rain forest can produce :eek:

We bow to he who knows, any help you guys want to set this up is offered as I'm sure it will be from other sites and retailers!

BioHazRd

IMO this thread is long overdue.

I won't mention non-hit taking as I feel it has been well covered, and I really can't add any improvements to docs suggestions. However, my big issue is hot guns. I have two functioning eyes, and I would dearly like it to be that way for many years to come.
I know chronoing of guns is on the increase, but i want to see it everywhere and at all times.
I have heard anecdotally (yes i know it's hearsay and means nothing) of people getting one gun chronoed then going back to their car to pull out their real playing gun. I have heard of and seen for myself, people turning their hop up to make their gun pass the chrono test. People who knowingly do this, as far as I am concerned, are commiting the crime of assault every time they hit somebody with a BB - and as such have no place in our sport. I have a few suggestions on how this may be tackled.

• all guns to be chronoed prior to gaming with the hop verified as off. Any guns that come in hot be verified on a second chrono in order to rule out chrono error. Any gun that then comes in as hot - player is told they cant play with it, and the players name and gun type / model noted. Player advised to go back to retailer where the gun was bought for downgrade (or in the case they upgraded it themselves, they are told to rectify it). If cross checking reveals same player and gun model showed as hot previously - they are barred.
• random spot checking of guns throughout the day. Anyone who doesn't agree to a random spot check to be advised they risk being barred unless they comply. Any players found to be playing with guns that were not presented for initial chrono testing ar barred

It may seem harsh to be passing out barrings for this, but as far as I am concerned, if an injury happens, it is already too late.


I for one will refuse to play against anyone else who is using a gun that has a power above 1 joule. If my team mates support me in this – that is potentially 6/7 guys walking up to a site owner looking for our money back. We can make this sport safe an enjoyable for all – we just have to make sure there is no leeway – rules are rules, limits are limits

The Warehouse

BioHazRd wrote: »

IMO this thread is long overdue.

I won't mention non-hit taking as I feel it has been well covered, and I really can't add any improvements to docs suggestions. However, my big issue is hot guns. I have two functioning eyes, and I would dearly like it to be that way for many years to come.
I know chronoing of guns is on the increase, but i want to see it everywhere and at all times.
I have heard anecdotally (yes i know it's hearsay and means nothing) of people getting one gun chronoed then going back to their car to pull out their real playing gun. I have heard of and seen for myself, people turning their hop up to make their gun pass the chrono test. People who knowingly do this, as far as I am concerned, are commiting the crime of assault every time they hit somebody with a BB - and as such have no place in our sport. I have a few suggestions on how this may be tackled.

• all guns to be chronoed prior to gaming with the hop verified as off. Any guns that come in hot be verified on a second chrono in order to rule out chrono error. Any gun that then comes in as hot - player is told they cant play with it, and the players name and gun type / model noted. Player advised to go back to retailer where the gun was bought for downgrade (or in the case they upgraded it themselves, they are told to rectify it). If cross checking reveals same player and gun model showed as hot previously - they are barred.
• random spot checking of guns throughout the day. Anyone who doesn't agree to a random spot check to be advised they risk being barred unless they comply. Any players found to be playing with guns that were not presented for initial chrono testing ar barred

It may seem harsh to be passing out barrings for this, but as far as I am concerned, if an injury happens, it is already too late.


I for one will refuse to play against anyone else who is using a gun that has a power above 1 joule. If my team mates support me in this – that is potentially 6/7 guys walking up to a site owner looking for our money back. We can make this sport safe an enjoyable for all – we just have to make sure there is no leeway – rules are rules, limits are limits

We completely agree Bio, well said!

Gatling

have to say things have got bad ,

skirmished for the 1st time in ages there 2 weeks ago ,
seen some of the worst cases of non hit taking ever , really ruined a best part of a day ,

marshals dont have it easy and never had , but i think sites needs to start looking at who they use and how they actuly work ,

not being bad no point having a marshal who has no intrest in marshaling in the first place and only do it for the few quid just to stand around looking at people playing ,

the sites have a responsibility to ensure hot guns arent being used and that cheats arent allowed to do what they like on sites ,
for to long we have a oh there mates of so and so ,
or they come in numbers so they can do what they like ,

if cheats are playing on a site then if there not acted on by the sites then avoid the sites , publicy state the site and the complain that wasnt acted on ,
if cheats are on the field walk off , and publicly show your displease ,if they cant play with honour and with in all the rules they dont belong in our community

Rhinocharge

^^ agree completely.

TheDoc

I think this is the first thread in months, which is a debate, where everyone is really on the same note and side,

Seems the only debate here is how to go about doing it.

but I'm glad to see its not just me that does be fuming about the situation.

At the end of the day it is our sport, and we make it how we want it.

Being so young as it is, its best to weed out this cheating and hot gun scene not, rather then later when it can potentially be much larger.

Dread-Lock

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

Last point, and I know other disagree with it, but I strongly beleive in hidden player marshalls. Each site has a big enough weekly bunch so that they could select well known honest players descretely but let the entire group know that they are in game. They shouldnt have to do anything, the fact that they are silently watching should be enough, and if needs be they could call in cheaters via radio allowing them to stay unknown while the marshalls repremand the problematic players.

I actually really like this idea, as people might be to afraid to cheat as the person crouching two feet from them could be a marshall.

Although what might be an idea is to use physiological warfare and just say there are hidden marshalls in the game. As it would basically be the same thing, the cheater wouldn't know if a marshall is two feet from him or if he even exists.

Puding

i have to agree nice to see airsoft growing in small way, if somone had brought ( and they did ) the hot aeg issue up 6 months ago the responce was rather differant.

There is no excuse for it be that from a site or a shop. Testing should not be an option or the exception but the norm, i've personaly had to tell people they could not play with an aeg 5fps over, i know its not easy but for me there is no compromise.

Gatling

no dont agree with hidden marshals ,if people are worried ny hi vis marshals then hidden marshals wont bother them.

we need proper marshals who can make a call and stand by it and not be swayed by mates , teams mates, or threats

a marshal should be proactive and yet not interfere with the flow of a game ,
the majority of people just want to turn up and play ,having marshaled for a fair amount of time , it was never easy getting someone to take over marshaling for 20 mins while getting a hot drink

gerrowadat

Dread-Lock wrote: »

I actually really like this idea, as people might be to afraid to cheat as the person crouching two feet from them could be a marshall.

Although what might be an idea is to use physiological warfare and just say there are hidden marshalls in the game. As it would basically be the same thing, the cheater wouldn't know if a marshall is two feet from him or if he even exists.

This kind of disavows other players from the responsibility of calling out cheaters though. ALL players should be hidden marshals.

I've personally called out lads on my own side a few times in a skirmish because I saw them hit. Got a few dirty looks and a bit of abuse for that, but if you ask me, cheater checking begins with the players. True sportsmanship is caring who wins, but caring more that the game is played fairly, honourably and with respect.