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travellers in flash cars??

2kinky

seen lots of travellers in fancy cars round limerick city all xmas,can sum1 explain how they get them?most didn;t look taxed or insured all german or uk reg's

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deisedevil

*Oul_Doll_Cork* wrote:

There is no point of being PC about this whole situation! Travellers are a completely different breed of people! They have no morals and have no social skills whatsoever! IMO they should section off one whole county in Ireland and dedicate it for the travellers! We can call it County Knacker!! Leave them do what they want!
Personally I don't care if they don't pay taxes and sell crappy furniture! ?It's when they set up home on your front garden and leave their horses run riot all over the place thats what really pisses me off!!
There was once a halting site built near my home! Brand new place with state of the art stuff there... they even had those gas and electric cable things for caravans to come in and hook up to! They had shower cubicals and toilet facilities! When the halting site opened a huge group of travellers moved in....
.... a week later the travellers moved on! There was nothing left of this halting site, they took everything that could be ripped out of the ground and they melted down everything that was made from steel... I think they made horse shoes or something from it!!!

Ya they have a feckin habit of doing that, happened in halting site near me and happens in halting sites all over and then they complain that they are given no decent facilities. WELL STOP WRECKING THEM THEN!

billy the squid

TheBazman wrote:

I live in County Limerick - every year hundreds of travellers come back to Rathkeale which appears to be their homeland. They always come back with flash cars. In years gone by it would be top of the range Mercs and Beemers. However recently they have downscaled a bit - this year it was top of the range VW passats and Kia jeeps. Most of their money appears to be made from dodgy businesses like putting down tarmacadam in Germany and Spain, although realistically something else has to be going on - illegal. However given the downscaling in cars in recent years, the money from their illegal activities must be drying up

How is working on building roads in Germany dodgy? I mean, free movement within the EU and all. and the money in construction can be quite good., ask any irish person who has been in building in the UK or who was involved in building the Channel Tunnel.

Hobbes

deisedevil wrote:

I'm speaking about my personal experiences with travellers
...That's where i get the large majority from, it's impossible to put no's on how many aren't criminals

Yet you have appeared to by calling the majority criminals when I doubt very much all 27,000 of them live near you. By large majority your saying that what, 40% (10,000) aren't criminals? 30%? (8,000). What exactly is a large majority?

can you put a no. on how many settled people are criminals?

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/2003/qnhs_crimeandvictimisation1998and2003.pdf

Although it doesn't factor in Travellers vs Settled people. But what percentage of 4 million is 27,000? Thats from CSO btw, only one offhand but they might have more details.

billy the squid

*Oul_Doll_Cork* wrote:

There is no point of being PC about this whole situation! Travellers are a completely different breed of people! They have no morals and have no social skills whatsoever! IMO they should section off one whole county in Ireland and dedicate it for the travellers! We can call it County Knacker!! Leave them do what they want!

the Germans tried that with the Jews, I'm not sure how successful it was though.

Personally I don't care if they don't pay taxes and sell crappy furniture! ?It's when they set up home on your front garden and leave their horses run riot all over the place thats what really pisses me off!!

You should take a look at some council estates then, most horses there belong to young fellas living in the estates, if not all of them, not to mention manky pigeon sheds built without council planning permission drawing rats into an estate.

There was once a halting site built near my home! ....<insert obligitory anecdote here>

cannot have an anti traveller post without a good ol' anecdote.

reminds me of another website where you have to have an anti blck/chinese/eastern european anecdote in order to start a thread bashing them.

johnplayerblue

Hey!
In the gates and up the chimney with each and every one of these parasites and a few liberals just to make sure theres no acucations of racism.

the_menace

billy the squid wrote:

the Germans tried that with the Jews, I'm not sure how successful it was though.

The Jews didn't deserve it though.

*Oul_Doll_Cork*

billy the squid wrote:

the Germans tried that with the Jews, I'm not sure how successful it was though.

You should take a look at some council estates then, most horses there belong to young fellas living in the estates, if not all of them, not to mention manky pigeon sheds built without council planning permission drawing rats into an estate.

cannot have an anti traveller post without a good ol' anecdote.

reminds me of another website where you have to have an anti blck/chinese/eastern european anecdote in order to start a thread bashing them.

Errrr, I was joking about the part where we should put all travellers into one county and leave them there!!!! I was hardly serious fecks sake! Some people take things so seriously!!!

Maybe we should start a new thread... a vote for which county we should put them in???

MikeC101

Limerick!

psicic

Hobbes wrote:

You know what they say about assumptions. You are telling me every single traveller child that didn't make it to secondary school is only because of thier parents?

Nothing to do with not being able to get placement in secondary schools? Any other reasons?

Umm, Hobbes, schools with traveller children enrolled get extra resources to accomodate those children - most principals won't kick up about traveller children coming to their school. If they do, they can avail of the same facilities available to everyone else.

In every single cachement area, at least one secondary school is designated as a 'School Completion Programme' School - I went to one (ironically out of choice!!). This means that this school HAS to take a child who has been turned away from other schools - be it because they're a son/daughter of a feuding Limerick crime gang, because they damaged school property elsewhere, traveller or whatever.

An SCP School will rarely try to refuse to take a child, and if they do, the likelyhood is that the Dept of Education will invoke s.29 proceedings at request of the traveller family/their representatives.

As an aside, in 2002 there were over 5,000 traveller children enrolled in Primary School in Ireland. Same year, there were 1,500 traveller children enrolled in Secondary School. (Figures on Dept of Education website). That would seem to indicate a 30% transition to secondary school. In fact, assuming a year-on-year increase in Traveller population under 18, that percentage gets even more healthy.

It's still too low, but the picture you paint seems to take a fact - discrimination against travellers - and try and maximise it in all aspects. It also seems to me that you're minimizing and trying to shift the blame for the negative social effects that people associate with travellers.

Only one thing gives travellers a bad name, and that's travellers.

Only one thing can give travellers a good name, and that's travellers.

Hobbes

*Oul_Doll_Cork* wrote:

Maybe we should start a new thread... a vote for which county we should put them in???

Yea Stormfront have forums you can use.

Hobbes

psicic wrote:

Umm, Hobbes, schools with traveller children enrolled get extra resources to accomodate those children - most principals won't kick up about traveller children coming to their school. If they do, they can avail of the same facilities available to everyone else.

Actually all they get is a teacher who helps the family in getting placement. (Which is not the same as SCP from what I can tell)

As for headmasters they don't kick up a fuss as they get funding for every traveller child in the school.

Reference: http://oasis.gov.ie/education/primary_and_post_primary_education/special_educational_arrangements_for_travellers.html?search=travellers

In fact, assuming a year-on-year increase in Traveller population under 18, that percentage gets even more healthy.

I would certainly hope so.

It's still too low, but the picture you paint seems to take a fact - discrimination against travellers

Third level education number of travellers was listed as 16. Although the DOE might have better figures from what I dug out before.

you're minimizing and trying to shift the blame for the negative social effects that people associate with travellers.

No, I am putting another point forward vs everyone who seems so intent on only putting negative points forward as reasoning that it is all thier fault.

deisedevil

Hobbes wrote:

Yet you have appeared to by calling the majority criminals when I doubt very much all 27,000 of them live near you. By large majority your saying that what, 40% (10,000) aren't criminals? 30%? (8,000). What exactly is a large majority?

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/2003/qnhs_crimeandvictimisation1998and2003.pdf

Although it doesn't factor in Travellers vs Settled people. But what percentage of 4 million is 27,000? Thats from CSO btw, only one offhand but they might have more details.

In all fairness like i have said i am giving my opinion! My opinion from what i have witnessed in my own area and any other i have been in and from almost all i have spoken to is that the majority of travellers are a problem and not just this minority that some people go on about. and that's the opinion of most people! How in gods name could i come up with an exact figure or a between this and that, shur it's impossible to keep track of them anyways!
Like psicic said "Only one thing gives travellers a bad name, and that's travellers. Only one thing can give travellers a good name, and that's travellers." Very true. I'm sick of people trying to put the blame with everyone else bar the travellers. Travellers cause their own problems and no matter how much is done to help them it's thrown back in our faces and why is this? because they know they can get away with it and come out looking for sympathy afterwards and use the everyone hates us card and some idiots will go backing them up.

deisedevil

Hobbes wrote:

No, I am putting another point forward vs everyone who seems so intent on only putting negative points forward as reasoning that it is all thier fault.

Does that not tell you something then? So many arguements against very few for. Are you just putting another point of view forward just because there is so few positive points? That's a bit pointless, maybe you should question your reasons for defending them.

Hobbes

deisedevil wrote:

In all fairness like i have said i am giving my opinion!

Ok I'll give you that. It is your opinion that the majority are criminals, you just have no facts to back it up though. Once we are clear on that.

My opinion from what i have witnessed in my own area and any other i have been in and from almost all i have spoken to is that the majority of travellers are a problem

Again with the vast majority. How much of a vast majority are troublemakers? Of course it being your opinion you are only talking about those local to you, don't suppose you know what the figure is?

Hobbes

deisedevil wrote:

Does that not tell you something then? So many arguements against very few for. Are you just putting another point of view forward just because there is so few positive points? That's a bit pointless, maybe you should question your reasons for defending them.

Well prehaps if the anti camp do give me a bit more then ancedote and hearsay then I might start taking the comments seriously.

Freelancer

ferdi wrote:

we will have to agree to disagree then i guess. i am more likely to believe someone giving a personal experience than a website.

"My mate down the pub reckons....."

Yeah I can see how the unsupported, unprovable, accusations and claims, provide a far more compelling body of evidence that a well established website dealing with such abstract concepts as "facts" and "statistics".

Honestly Hobbes deserves the 2005 Don Quixote tilting at the windmills of ignorance award.

The anti argument can be summed up as "most are scumbags, you can spot em, I've heard stories that all turn down houses/all are on the dole and working two jobs/are shiftless bastards pumping out children. Thoough I cannot support or provide any evidence to support my sweeping claim about a social group so that means, I am not racists/anyone who disagrees with my making a sweeping unsupported accusation aganist them all is just a part of the "PC brigade"

deisedevil wrote:

Does that not tell you something then? So many arguements against very few for. Are you just putting another point of view forward just because there is so few positive points? That's a bit pointless, maybe you should question your reasons for defending them.

Brilliant! No smoke without fire eh?

At the risk of treading into Godwin's terrirotory if you replace traveler with Jew, and Ireland 2005 and Ireland 1905, you'd have heard plenty of songs and people muttering darkly about the Jewish Problem. In 1904 there was a minor pogrom to drive the Jewish community out of Limerick, with tales of their corrupt ways and money lending, and wealth they didn't earn or deserve.

Woa Deja vu eh?

nlgbbbblth

I imagine the reason travellers have so many children is because the majority of them are staunch Catholics who do not believe in birth control. Or sex before marriage.

And are possibly not too positive towards the whole gay thing I mentioned on page 8.

deisedevil

Hobbes: "Ok I'll give you that. It is your opinion that the majority are criminals, you just have no facts to back it up though. Once we are clear on that."

But you have no facts to disagree with that claim either, silly arguement, boards.ie is about poeple giving their opinions, i guarentee you if you go out on the street and ask people what they think about you'll see most agree with the my view on it.

Hobbes:"Of course it being your opinion you are only talking about those local to you, don't suppose you know what the figure is?"

I am not just talking about those local to me, i have heard and seen plenty from all over the country to know it's not just in my own area. Ask people from any county in Ireland and you'll get a resounding YES that the majority of Travellers are breaking the law in many different ways!

Hobbes: "Again with the vast majority. How much of a vast majority are troublemakers?"

This is too bloody confusing. I said the vast majority are troublemakers and you then ask how much of the vast majority are troublemakers, ammmmmmm, the vast majority!:rolleyes:

Not much point continuing this silly arguement anyways, i know what i have seen and heard and i have had plenty of experiences with travellers to know that most of them (the vast feckin majority) are not worth bothering with and to avoid them as much as possible.
You have a different view of them, that's fair enough, i just hope you don't ever get taken advantage of by them, you sound a bit naive in relation to the problems travellers cause.

BigEejit

psicic wrote:

Only one thing gives travellers a bad name, and that's travellers.

Only one thing can give travellers a good name, and that's travellers.

Nail. Head.

Travellers are their own worst enemies, they make shíte of some places and cause fear and loathing in the settled communities .... They appear to not care either which galls law abiding people who have to pay for their amenities and pay for the regular cleanup that is required when they move on/forced to move on.

I know I should make a distinction between knacker and Traveller but to tell the truth I believe that the law abiding, hard working tinker of old is gone and replaced with something altogether different.

Davei141

Hobbes, how many travellers on average do you interact with daily? Do you live near a halting site?

Answer me those questions, and if you already have, then link them please.

bounty

i bet Hobbes lives a very sheltered life, in some leafy suburb far away from any halting sites, living in ignorant denial about the poor persecuted travelling folk :rolleyes:

Giblet

Davei141 wrote:

Hobbes, how many travellers on average do you interact with daily? Do you live near a halting site?

Answer me those questions, and if you already have, then link them please.

Why should hobbes be the only one to answer this? Or are his opinions the only ones that contradict yours?

Giblet

bounty wrote:

i bet Hobbes lives a very sheltered life, in some leafy suburb far away from any halting sites, living in ignorant denial about the poor persecuted travelling folk :rolleyes:

Shut up and stop posting.

bounty

Giblet wrote:

Shut up and stop posting.

so, if my opinion contradicts yours, i shouldnt post? :rolleyes:

Giblet

bounty wrote:

so, if my opinion contradicts yours, i shouldnt post? :rolleyes:

You weren't giving an opinion on the topic, you were having a dig at hobbes Mr. Rolleyes, and I never gave an opinion so how does what you've said make sense?

OMcGovern

I hear the pharmaceutical company "Procter & Gamble" have developed a new shampoo for travellers.... it's called "Go and wash"

Davei141

Giblet wrote:

Why should hobbes be the only one to answer this? Or are his opinions the only ones that contradict yours?

Most of the others have given personal experiences while hobbes has given websites. And if it bothers you so much feel free to answer it aswell.

Freelancer

deisedevil wrote:

Hobbes: "Ok I'll give you that. It is your opinion that the majority are criminals, you just have no facts to back it up though. Once we are clear on that."

But you have no facts to disagree with that claim either, silly arguement,

Spurious and inane argument. You make the claim the onus is on you to prove it, not on Hobbes to disprove it.

Otherwise we could do this;

"People called Deisedevil are syphillitic pimps who enjoy sexual congress with goats"*

When you deny it we demand you don't have sex with goats. Asking Hobbes to disprove your assertion isn't his job and making a claim about someone or a group and demanding we disprove it isn't the way it works in y'know the world.

boards.ie is about poeple giving their opinions, i guarentee you if you go out on the street and ask people what they think about you'll see most agree with the my view on it.

So it's your opinion that they are all criminals, and it's your opinion most people would agree with you.

Hobbes on the other hand has contracted the opinions of many of this thread, and provided statistics and facts to support his assertion.

But all you have is your opinion, and your opinion that your opinion is the opinion of most. Which is a piss poor argument.

Hobbes:"Of course it being your opinion you are only talking about those local to you, don't suppose you know what the figure is?"

I am not just talking about those local to me, i have heard and seen plenty from all over the country to know it's not just in my own area. Ask people from any county in Ireland and you'll get a resounding YES that the majority of Travellers are breaking the law in many different ways!

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. That you claim your straw poll proves that this is happening? That your focus group of unknown size and background that you claim you took proves that this is happening? It doesn't.

Okay let me get this clear.

Do you think that the majority of travellers commit crimes?

Or do you know?

Which is it.

Because the first is just unsubstaniated slander, which spreads myths, the later is something you've abjectly failed to prove in any real sense. Which I think is the main thrust of the pro lobby, that travellers are often maligned and villified without any real evidence. And you and the rest of your kind of this thread are proving that point.

Hobbes: "Again with the vast majority. How much of a vast majority are troublemakers?"

This is too bloody confusing. I said the vast majority are troublemakers and you then ask how much of the vast majority are troublemakers, ammmmmmm, the vast majority!:rolleyes:

It's really simple you claim you know the vast majority are "trouble makers". How much is a vast majority? When does a majority become a vast majority? 55%? 75%? 99%?

What do you offer to support your assertion? What evidence do you possess? How large a group did you speak to when you were asking about travellers? Or simply put do you claim to have ancedotal evidence about every traveller in Ireland?

Not much point continuing this silly arguement anyways, i know what i have seen and heard and i have had plenty of experiences with travellers to know that most of them (the vast feckin majority) are not worth bothering with and to avoid them as much as possible.

So despite hobbes successful attempt to demolish some myths you're grand to stay with your predjuidices thank you very much?

You have a different view of them, that's fair enough, i just hope you don't ever get taken advantage of by them, you sound a bit naive in relation to the problems travellers cause.

Ah the timeless I am a man of the world and I've seen more than you patronising approach.

Christ the anti lobby are wheeling out all the classics on this one

*Not an insult just illustrating a point about assertions and the burden of proof.

psicic

Hobbes wrote:

Actually all they get is a teacher who helps the family in getting placement. (Which is not the same as SCP from what I can tell)

This is a bit O/T - From what I know (which isn't a lot, so anyone with more info, please feel free to correct), there's nothing to stop a traveller from availing of SCP and the usual courses of action open to Joe 'I-live-in-a-house' Blogs, which is what I was referring to.

The DES provides extra resources specifically for traveller children in an effort to get more traveller children in schools, as you rightly pointed out. It's highly unlikely that they'd ever reach the stage of having to persue the same avenues that settled people would because the extra supports for finding a placement should kick in by then. I was just stating that they could.

It would seem to me unlikely that traveller children are being denied a place in school by the system itself. It would more than likely be a parental thing. However, it's false to say this is a stagnant picture. Traveller families are becoming much more aware of the need for good, basic education, especially in business. That's why the Traveller Education Centres(like Adult Education specifically for Travellers) are such a good idea - they reaffirm to parents the need to educate both themselves and their children. Also, other efforts are made, such as those Adult Literacy courses on telly.

As for Third Level Figures - even if it showed all 27,000 travellers in third level, it's a placebo figure at best. Third Level isn't compulsory and its' main achievment in this country is to delay the (until recently) ever-increasing glut of untrained labour avilable to the market after each Leaving Cert.

billy the squid

OMcGovern wrote:

I hear the pharmaceutical company "Procter & Gamble" have developed a new shampoo for travellers.... it's called "Go and wash"

when all else fails throw out a racist/ethnic/sectarian/bigotted joke.