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travellers in flash cars??
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Billy, if you actually bothered reading my post you would see that was in reference to X Factor winner Shayne Wards family. I never mentioned Francie Barrett.
God this thread gets better and better.
And what constitutes a race hate attack against travellers? After being conned out of a sum of money by travellers when he attempted to buy a fishing rod off them, a cousins mate retalliated by showing up at the illegal encampment by the river in the dead of night. Along with his brothers they managed to push two of the travellers vehicles into the river and unsuccessfully attempted to burn two caravans before being chased and fleeing. Is this legal? Of course not. But Ive a feeling the likes of Hobbes would regard this as racism rather than revenge. When the fact is that if I had conned the guy, he would have shown up at my house and done pretty much the same to my property, it would be classed as general assault/vandalism. But when its travellers it seems it absoloutely was motivated by nothing more than racism. You are so big on links and evidence, well, until the perps of an attack on travellers are caught, generally the motive is not clear.
btw I thought Id just cut off Hobbes before he comes out with "so, you endorse burning caravans that could very well contain sleeping children yet you are sympathetic to the plight of the little Tallaght girl". I didnt carry out this attack. I had nothing to do with it. Ive every sympathy with the parents of the two boys who died in Clondalkin (albeit accidently afaik). Theoretically if I had been conned*, Id have been satisfied with writing off the cars but anyway, thats him and this is me
Also, considering the amount of CD burners that were found at Dunsink churning out thousands of DVDs and CDs even mentioning the fact many Irish net users use it for downloading copywrighted material is just the icing on the cake. Tbh of the tracks I downloaded on Kazaa, ive got the vast majority of the albums they come from.
* I have been, as said previously. We attempted to get the Gardai to take action, they just stopped short of laughing at us (what me and the bird were buying wasnt strictly legal, but it was victimless and not causing any distress to any member of the public or anyones property). We told the cops the truth, that we had reason to believe a group of travellers were in posession of certain items illegally. Fair enough, revenge more than disgust was our main motivation, but thats irrelevant. They took no action.
I knew immediately the guy was a traveller and was wary, however herself basically says "come on, theyre not all bad". Her good natured, trusting "give them a chance" approach to the situation cost her 50 euro. Ive a feeling Hobbes is heading for a similiar fall if he practices what he preaches. He will no doubt accuse me of hypocracy, labelling me as a criminal because of this. Before you do, know that if you have ever driven at 61 mph in the 60 mph zone, ever been drunk in a pub, nightclub or public place, ever bought/used an illegal substance, ever bought alcohol under the age of 18, ever bought a pint for your 17 year old friend/relative, ever skipped school, YOU HAVE BROKEN THE LAW. And breaking speed limits poses a risk to innocent people around you, what we were doing did not.
With a Garda force like this is it any wonder my cousins mate did what he did? If Padraig Nally shoots dead a traveller who was himself commiting an illegal act, then Padraig Nally gets locked up. If two settled people are conned whilst entering an admittedly illegal but victimless transaction with travellers it is a seemingly different story.0 -
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Tha Gopher wrote:Billy, if you actually bothered reading my post you would see that was in reference to X Factor winner Shayne Wards family. I never mentioned Francie Barrett.
God this thread gets better and better.
And what constitutes a race hate attack against travellers? After being conned out of a sum of money by travellers when he attempted to buy a fishing rod off them, a cousins mate retalliated by showing up at the illegal encampment by the river in the dead of night. Along with his brothers they managed to push two of the travellers vehicles into the river and unsuccessfully attempted to burn two caravans before being chased and fleeing. Is this legal? Of course not. But Ive a feeling the likes of Hobbes would regard this as racism rather than revenge. When the fact is that if I had conned the guy, he would have shown up at my house and done pretty much the same to my property, it would be classed as general assault/vandalism. But when its travellers it seems it absoloutely was motivated by nothing more than racism. You are so big on links and evidence, well, until the perps of an attack on travellers are caught, generally the motive is not clear.
btw I thought Id just cut off Hobbes before he comes out with "so, you endorse burning caravans that could very well contain sleeping children yet you are sympathetic to the plight of the little Tallaght girl". I didnt carry out this attack. I had nothing to do with it. Ive every sympathy with the parents of the two boys who died in Clondalkin (albeit accidently afaik). Theoretically if I had been conned*, Id have been satisfied with writing off the cars but anyway, thats him and this is me
Also, considering the amount of CD burners that were found at Dunsink churning out thousands of DVDs and CDs even mentioning the fact many Irish net users use it for downloading copywrighted material is just the icing on the cake. Tbh of the tracks I downloaded on Kazaa, ive got the vast majority of the albums they come from.
* I have been, as said previously. We attempted to get the Gardai to take action, they just stopped short of laughing at us (what me and the bird were buying wasnt strictly legal, but it was victimless and not causing any distress to any member of the public or anyones property). We told the cops the truth, that we had reason to believe a group of travellers were in posession of certain items illegally. Fair enough, revenge more than disgust was our main motivation, but thats irrelevant. They took no action.
I knew immediately the guy was a traveller and was wary, however herself basically says "come on, theyre not all bad". Her good natured, trusting "give them a chance" approach to the situation cost her 50 euro. Ive a feeling Hobbes is heading for a similiar fall if he practices what he preaches. He will no doubt accuse me of hypocracy, labelling me as a criminal because of this. Before you do, know that if you have ever driven at 61 mph in the 60 mph zone, ever been drunk in a pub, nightclub or public place, ever bought/used an illegal substance, ever bought alcohol under the age of 18, ever bought a pint for your 17 year old friend/relative, ever skipped school, YOU HAVE BROKEN THE LAW. And breaking speed limits poses a risk to innocent people around you, what we were doing did not.
With a Garda force like this is it any wonder my cousins mate did what he did? If Padraig Nally shoots dead a traveller who was himself commiting an illegal act, then Padraig Nally gets locked up. If two settled people are conned whilst entering an admittedly illegal but victimless transaction with travellers it is a seemingly different story.
Again, this is showing more about settled people. And that when it comes to travellers, the old 'an eye for an eye' is now an 'eye for a head'.0 -
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Hobbes wrote:The Gopher..
I had started off replying to your response but then I realise there is no point.
You have just detailed criminal actions by people you know where others could of died not to mention untold damage.
And you did this on a public forum.
You then go on that it is ok that they do this "because it wasn't me".
I think you can step out of the debate at this point.
LOL:D Oh God, we have done it. I have finally pushed Hobbes to the "Gopher is highlighting my failings in this thread, will he PLEASE just leave" level:)
Where in my post did I say I endorsed and supported the attack? I did say that if I had been him, and had I carried out this attack, I wouldnt have attempted to torch the caravans. If I was Adolf Hitler I would never have attacked Russia- it doesnt mean I support killing 6 million Jews.
However, I am not the guy who attacked the campsite.. Nowhere in that post did I give an opinion whether I thought he was right in any way. I merely pointed out his primary motive was to get revenge on people who fleeced him, the motive was revenge, not racial. I dont deny he may have used anti traveller language when ranting about his situation pre attack(i didnt hear him myself, i wasnt present and didnt hear of the events until after they happened), that does not mean that it was motivated purely because they were travellers, it was motivated because they were conmen. Is there really a difference in him saying "that pikey bastard conned me out of a hundred", or if the conman was a settled man from Ballymun him saying "that ****ing skanger scumbag from the flats conned me out of a hundred" ? I did say I UNDERSTOOD why he carried out the attack. I UNDERSTAND why Hitler didnt like Jews. It doesnt neccessarily mean I support the Holocaust.
You have assumed I fully support his actions. However, it is settled people assuming from life experience that a majority of travellers are anti social types that has got you so angry. The key word there is ASSUMPTION. I refuse to give an opinin on this forum as to whether he was right or wrong to attack the campsite. Im within my rights to decline to comment. Now, by me saying that, you will ASSUME I fully support the attack. You might be right. However, how can you really know that I am not playing a mind game, that I actually dont support it, but want you to assume I do so as you have been guilty of making an assumption based on no hard evidence.
Confused?:)
Please read the rest of my post rather than skipping all I wrote after the description of the campsite attack. You say I gave a perfect example? Of what, a racist attack? Actually if you read the whole post it might become apparent I gave an example of a REVENGE attack. If some travellers camped by the river and my cousins friend decided to do what he did despite never having met the travellers, it would be a prejudicial assault (not a racist assault, as they arent another race. However, it would be fuelled by prejudice because he hated the travellers based on pre made judgements. And seeing as they were already illegally camped, one of these pre judgements would therefore been proven true). If a man sees a Nigerian family moving in a few doors down, thinks "damn foreigners" and that night firebombs the house, it is a racist attack. If some guy is beaten up in an unprovoked assault by some Nigerians living down the street and firebombs the house that night, its a revenge attack. Whether or not he refers to them in racist language before the revenge assault does not make it a racist attack. Two friends of mine, a Nigerian and a Dub from the mun, nearly ended up beating each other up after they fell out over something minor. When we were seperating them he used the N word. It doesnt make him a racist, theyre great mates with each other and still are. People who wouldnt let a black person into their house, but will whoop and cheer when Thierry Henry or Louis Saha scores a goal for their respective teams are the worst type of racist you can encounter. I know one guy, rich, VERY racist, who thinks Louis Saha is the dogs bollix. Now, aside from the insanity of thinking Saha is anything special ( ), its all the more ironic seeing as Ive seen this guy actually squirming when a black person sits beside him in a class.
The truth is Hobbes wants me to step out of the debate because I have been a constant thorn in his side on the thread since god knows how many posts ago. I pretty much disected half his posts for their nonsense and inaccuracies, to the point even Biz, who repspected his anti popularist stance, was resigned to the fact that he was fighting a losing battle and had sank to some godawful lows to win his arguement . Alas, the heightened tempers of many involved (Hobbes primarily) would indicate that the end is nigh for this thread, it is teetering on locktime . But this nonsense provided me with a bit of entertainment, never mind astonishment, over the last few days.0 -
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Hobbes wrote:You on the other hand have just detailed actions of others you personally know where people may of died and you fob it off as revenge, and if I am reading it right for being conned out of 50 euros.
Actually, yet again, you didnt read it right. :rolleyes:
The girl I was with at the time (we have on/off thing, incase anyone was wondering why i avoided use of the word girlfriend
) was the one who lost the 50. My cousins mate, I dont actually know how much he lost I cant recall, I called it 100 for arguements sake. Did I report the attack to the Gardai? Of course not. Had I done so, there would be alot of people not speaking to me, and I myself would have faced a revenge beating. Without trying to make out I live in a mafia or hood movie, it is not the way Irish people generally handle a situation from my experience, primarily because they know the Gardai will do fcuk all. So you would report a family friend for attacking people who had conned him out of money? An attack he undertook because he knew full well there was no evidence for the Gardai to act on? Im sure your a very popular guy.
If someone conned me out of 100 euros and ended up dying because of it, would I care? Not in the slightest. I am not saying it would be the result of me killing the person. Im not stupid enough to risk 7 years plus in prison for the sake of a few bob. My cousins friend is, but thats him. It could be, just for an example, that the guy bought 100 euro worth of coke/e/heroin, and had some severe allergic reaction and died, then no, you play with fire yil get burned would be my view on it.
Please note, I still have not commented on whether said gentleman was right or wrong to attack the campsite. And I wont. I did say I wouldnt report him, that isnt necessarily an opinion on the rights/wrongs of the attack0 -
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Tha Gopher wrote:Billy, if you actually bothered reading my post you would see that was in reference to X Factor winner Shayne Wards family. I never mentioned Francie Barrett.
God this thread gets better and better.
my point still stands though, doesn't it.
My sirname is the same as that as the former manager of a chain of supermarkets who was arrested in the US on drugs charges. By your logic, thsi would make me a criminal even though I am in no way related to this man Also despite having the same surname, I am not, to the best of my knowledge, related to this guy either, although there is a strong musical tradition in my family. . You will have to do better than pointing at someone's surname to prove that someone's family are scum. There are more than one Jack Barry, i think the saying goes. I also share the same surname as If the wrong person were to look at your statement, it could land the site in trouble for libel.And what constitutes a race hate attack against travellers?
You quoted my post, so I am guessing you are directing this at me. I used the term "hate crime" not "race hate crime." The question of whether or not Travellers are a seperate race, or a separate ethnic group has not been decided as yet by the people who decide such things.
After being conned out of a sum of money by travellers when he attempted to buy a fishing rod off them, a cousins mate retalliated by showing up at the illegal encampment by the river in the dead of night. Along with his brothers they managed to push two of the travellers vehicles into the river and unsuccessfully attempted to burn two caravans before being chased and fleeing. Is this legal? Of course not. But Ive a feeling the likes of Hobbes would regard this as racism rather than revenge.[/quote]
Neither racism or revenge not personal traits to be admired. Your friend would have been better to go to the police if he had been ripped off rather than cause serious damage to four homes, all because of oen person.When the fact is that if I had conned the guy, he would have shown up at my house and done pretty much the same to my property, it would be classed as general assault/vandalism.. But when its travellers it seems it absoloutely was motivated by nothing more than racism. You are so big on links and evidence, well, until the perps of an attack on travellers are caught, generally the motive is not clear.
But in order for him to do the same thing he would not only have to completely wreck your house, but do the same to three of your neighbours. and much of what you say is an assumption.btw I thought Id just cut off Hobbes before he comes out with "so, you endorse burning caravans that could very well contain sleeping children yet you are sympathetic to the plight of the little Tallaght girl". I didnt carry out this attack. I had nothing to do with it. Ive every sympathy with the parents of the two boys who died in Clondalkin (albeit accidently afaik). Theoretically if I had been conned*, Id have been satisfied with writing off the cars but anyway, thats him and this is me
So you would have been satisfied causeing thousands of euro worth of damage to a person's car, probably disrupting their livelyhoods, for the sake of a fishing rod. you stated that your friend was conned by one traveller, yet you would be willing to write off an undisclosed number of cars. you did say cars, (plural of car, meaning more than one(which is the number of conman travellers in your story)) Someone elses car who had not conned you would have also been written off to satisfy your revenge.
And by not going to the police to give evidence in a case where people's lives were put at risk makes you complicit in your friend's criminal damage. Notice i did not say racist attack, I said criminal damage.Also, considering the amount of CD burners that were found at Dunsink churning out thousands of DVDs and CDs even mentioning the fact many Irish net users use it for downloading copywrighted material is just the icing on the cake. Tbh of the tracks I downloaded on Kazaa, ive got the vast majority of the albums they come from.
So there ws a crime syndicate in Dunsink, that does not prove all, or even a majority of travellers are criminals. Also the fact that this story is in the public domain also proves the fact that travellers are not given special treatment over settled people by the Guards or the juditial system.I have been, as said previously. We attempted to get the Gardai to take action, they just stopped short of laughing at us (what me and the bird were buying wasnt strictly legal, but it was victimless and not causing any distress to any member of the public or anyones property). We told the cops the truth, that we had reason to believe a group of travellers were in posession of certain items illegally. Fair enough, revenge more than disgust was our main motivation, but thats irrelevant. They took no action.
I don't know exactly what you were trying to buy, so I cannot comment on whether or not its acquisition by yourself and your girlfriend was victimless or not.I knew immediately the guy was a traveller and was wary, however herself basically says "come on, theyre not all bad". Her good natured, trusting "give them a chance" approach to the situation cost her 50 euro. Ive a feeling Hobbes is heading for a similiar fall if he practices what he preaches. He will no doubt accuse me of hypocracy, labelling me as a criminal because of this.With a Garda force like this is it any wonder my cousins mate did what he did? If Padraig Nally shoots dead a traveller who was himself commiting an illegal act, then Padraig Nally gets locked up. If two settled people are conned whilst entering an admittedly illegal but victimless transaction with travellers it is a seemingly different story.
Padraig Nally shot a man who was at the time of his death, was no immediate threat to him, he was either fleeing his property or had already left his property when he went back inside to reload his gun after shooting him before he shot him in the back.0 -
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OMcGovern wrote:I didn't brand them all as pr*cks....... I said parasites who don't contribute anything to Irish society.
I've been the victim of the 'creamers, twice in my lifetime.
And I have stories from 2 mates of other incidents of violence.
Maybe there's a minority of them who learnt to behave themselves or else lose their rental accomodation, but I view the families who live in littered campsites as lawless criminal gangs.
Trust me... no amount of responses will change my view.
Then I suggest you don't post to Humanities anymore, unless of course, you can provide evidence to back up your claims.
And so... the latest exciting installment of Travellers are scum is closed in Humanities. I think I'll close all traveller related threads appearing here for oooooo a couple of weeks anyway. Many should have been banned. Possibly I will. Who knows? In any case I suggest those who are new to Humanities read the charter. Cheers!
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