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travellers in flash cars??
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Hobbes: "Ok I'll give you that. It is your opinion that the majority are criminals, you just have no facts to back it up though. Once we are clear on that."
But you have no facts to disagree with that claim either, silly arguement, boards.ie is about poeple giving their opinions, i guarentee you if you go out on the street and ask people what they think about you'll see most agree with the my view on it.
Hobbes:"Of course it being your opinion you are only talking about those local to you, don't suppose you know what the figure is?"
I am not just talking about those local to me, i have heard and seen plenty from all over the country to know it's not just in my own area. Ask people from any county in Ireland and you'll get a resounding YES that the majority of Travellers are breaking the law in many different ways!
Hobbes: "Again with the vast majority. How much of a vast majority are troublemakers?"
This is too bloody confusing. I said the vast majority are troublemakers and you then ask how much of the vast majority are troublemakers, ammmmmmm, the vast majority!:rolleyes:
Not much point continuing this silly arguement anyways, i know what i have seen and heard and i have had plenty of experiences with travellers to know that most of them (the vast feckin majority) are not worth bothering with and to avoid them as much as possible.
You have a different view of them, that's fair enough, i just hope you don't ever get taken advantage of by them, you sound a bit naive in relation to the problems travellers cause.
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deisedevil wrote:Hobbes: "Ok I'll give you that. It is your opinion that the majority are criminals, you just have no facts to back it up though. Once we are clear on that."
But you have no facts to disagree with that claim either, silly arguement,
Spurious and inane argument. You make the claim the onus is on you to prove it, not on Hobbes to disprove it.
Otherwise we could do this;
"People called Deisedevil are syphillitic pimps who enjoy sexual congress with goats"*
When you deny it we demand you don't have sex with goats. Asking Hobbes to disprove your assertion isn't his job and making a claim about someone or a group and demanding we disprove it isn't the way it works in y'know the world.boards.ie is about poeple giving their opinions, i guarentee you if you go out on the street and ask people what they think about you'll see most agree with the my view on it.
So it's your opinion that they are all criminals, and it's your opinion most people would agree with you.
Hobbes on the other hand has contracted the opinions of many of this thread, and provided statistics and facts to support his assertion.
But all you have is your opinion, and your opinion that your opinion is the opinion of most. Which is a piss poor argument.Hobbes:"Of course it being your opinion you are only talking about those local to you, don't suppose you know what the figure is?"
I am not just talking about those local to me, i have heard and seen plenty from all over the country to know it's not just in my own area. Ask people from any county in Ireland and you'll get a resounding YES that the majority of Travellers are breaking the law in many different ways!
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. That you claim your straw poll proves that this is happening? That your focus group of unknown size and background that you claim you took proves that this is happening? It doesn't.
Okay let me get this clear.
Do you think that the majority of travellers commit crimes?
Or do you know?
Which is it.
Because the first is just unsubstaniated slander, which spreads myths, the later is something you've abjectly failed to prove in any real sense. Which I think is the main thrust of the pro lobby, that travellers are often maligned and villified without any real evidence. And you and the rest of your kind of this thread are proving that point.Hobbes: "Again with the vast majority. How much of a vast majority are troublemakers?"
This is too bloody confusing. I said the vast majority are troublemakers and you then ask how much of the vast majority are troublemakers, ammmmmmm, the vast majority!:rolleyes:
It's really simple you claim you know the vast majority are "trouble makers". How much is a vast majority? When does a majority become a vast majority? 55%? 75%? 99%?
What do you offer to support your assertion? What evidence do you possess? How large a group did you speak to when you were asking about travellers? Or simply put do you claim to have ancedotal evidence about every traveller in Ireland?
So despite hobbes successful attempt to demolish some myths you're grand to stay with your predjuidices thank you very much?Not much point continuing this silly arguement anyways, i know what i have seen and heard and i have had plenty of experiences with travellers to know that most of them (the vast feckin majority) are not worth bothering with and to avoid them as much as possible.You have a different view of them, that's fair enough, i just hope you don't ever get taken advantage of by them, you sound a bit naive in relation to the problems travellers cause.
Ah the timeless I am a man of the world and I've seen more than you patronising approach.
Christ the anti lobby are wheeling out all the classics on this one
*Not an insult just illustrating a point about assertions and the burden of proof.0 -
Hobbes wrote:Actually all they get is a teacher who helps the family in getting placement. (Which is not the same as SCP from what I can tell)
This is a bit O/T - From what I know (which isn't a lot, so anyone with more info, please feel free to correct), there's nothing to stop a traveller from availing of SCP and the usual courses of action open to Joe 'I-live-in-a-house' Blogs, which is what I was referring to.
The DES provides extra resources specifically for traveller children in an effort to get more traveller children in schools, as you rightly pointed out. It's highly unlikely that they'd ever reach the stage of having to persue the same avenues that settled people would because the extra supports for finding a placement should kick in by then. I was just stating that they could.
It would seem to me unlikely that traveller children are being denied a place in school by the system itself. It would more than likely be a parental thing. However, it's false to say this is a stagnant picture. Traveller families are becoming much more aware of the need for good, basic education, especially in business. That's why the Traveller Education Centres(like Adult Education specifically for Travellers) are such a good idea - they reaffirm to parents the need to educate both themselves and their children. Also, other efforts are made, such as those Adult Literacy courses on telly.
As for Third Level Figures - even if it showed all 27,000 travellers in third level, it's a placebo figure at best. Third Level isn't compulsory and its' main achievment in this country is to delay the (until recently) ever-increasing glut of untrained labour avilable to the market after each Leaving Cert.
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