Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

"It's been said before and I know it pisses people off, the Leinster centric Irish team is actually helping the national team at present."

Also, if my main remit was to make sure Ireland win as many matches as possible, I'd actually want the majority of players coming from 1 province. It helps with cohesion and systems.

Not at all taking a pot-shot.

My point is that I think it's too simplistic to say "the IRFU's team is Ireland". They also have a remit and responsibility to the Provinces (and indeed more broadly).

The Ireland team is obviously the big income generator, and will always have primacy. But if there is an increasing perception that there's a significant imbalance in the system, it may begin to disenfranchise provincial supporters. That can't be good in the long run.

Yes, you're correct to say that Munster had a majority of the central contracts in the 2000's because they had the better players. But the % distribution of those central contracts was nothing like it is now.

Just saw this post.

£50k is more than I was thinking, but I don't have enough knowledge to settle on an ideal figure (none of us do).

Anyway, it's not penalising Leinster. It's redrawing how central contracts work.

Each Leinster CC player would still be getting the great majority of his contract paid for by the IRFU. And the other provinces would each be paying for the first £50k of their own CC players. Not as much money, but fair in principle.

If you're happy that the much greater number of CCs are held by Leinster, and that disparity doesn't bother you, why would the disparity that they're paying back more though my suggested system bother you? They're still getting a massive swathe off their wage bill.

And what you don't then have is people arguing about who does or doesn't deserve a CC, and ridiculous notions about quotas of CCs across the province. And you're still getting incentivised to produce players good enough for a CC, because you're still getting most of their wages paid for.

And the other three academies improve, bolstering the quality of the players available to Ireland.

Didn't ye just win the league? While Leinster won nothing.

Ya I've thought that myself, it's probably why we seem to peak too early. But to be fair, any of us in Andy Farrell's position would do the same thing. If 2 players of similar quality are going for the same spot and one them plays club rugby with half the team, then it makes the decision of who to pick a lot easier.

I think the coaching set ups at the other provinces need to be looked at too. Munster seem to have a different game plan depending on what players are available. It's hard to see what the long term plan is there. That can't help with young players development.

There was a small murmur before of a fifth team....

Don't disagree with any of that. But I think it might be time to start putting more money into -and pressure on - the other academies. I'm distressed by a match day 23 with no Ulster players in it.

Well from a set-up point of view, Munster is easier to split. Already have the North and South split in the Branch and have Thomond and Musgrave Parks.

In terms of player depth Leinster is obviously the obvious one.

And in terms of history, you had the exiles in the interpros for a while as I recall...

Was the imbalance intended/expected? Yes and no.

The whole set-up is geared to producing test-level player to populate the Irish team which drives the whole IRFU.

What we've seen in the last ten years is one province do exactly what it's supposed to, so yes that bit was intended, even if we didn't expect it to be quite so successful.

On the flip side, the other two bulk suppliers to the national team have fallen off a cliff, so no, that bit was not intended or expected.

But the bit that is working as it should seems to be the problem?

I know a certain poster will come along, call me disingenuous and say that Ulster/Munster can never match Leinster's output, or some other trite deflection, but next season, there will ONE centrally contracted product of the Ulster and Munster academies combined. One. And you'd struggle to point to anyone and say they're hard done by not to have one. Yeah POM could have got another year, what odds would that make in the bigger picture?

The imbalance is not due to the favourable treatment of Leinster, which again, we've yet to hear an explanation for why the Aussie and English guy would do so, it's down to the collapse of the Ulster and Munster conveyor belts.

But apparently Jordie Barrett going on a J1 is the issue.

@Former Former Former

I've never mentioned "favourable treatment of Leinster". I've literally said the opposite; that it like wasn't intended / expected.

I've also never mentioned that "Jordie Barrett going on a J1" / central contracts are "the" issue. They are an issue.

The points about player development are obviously fair. But if the purposes of central contracts was to keep the best players in Ireland, and also to reduce the financial burden of those players on the Provinces (plural), then we have some unintended consequences here.

If this is an outlier in the distribution of central contracts across the Provinces since their inception (and it is, by an order of magnitude), then it seems perfectly reasonable for fans of other provinces to question the current setup.

The fact the IRFU are conducting a review suggests, at least, there are a few questions worth asking here.