Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981508#Comment_121981508

VdM did **** all against teams not wearing white. Is scoring the only metric to judge a player off of, because he certainly did **** all defending, passing, kicking etc

pickarooney

He tied up lots of defenders, carried 41 times for 350 metres, 3 offloads, 6 like breaks.

I was harsh on Penaud who actually contributed a lot of assists, carried, line breaks and a huge number of offloads. Just 0 tries for a winger won't get them picked.

Rugbyf565

Picking a 40-man squad for the South Africa Tour:

Loose head: Porter, Loughman, O’Toole-(O’Toole converts to loose head)

Hooker: Sheehan, Herring, Keheller

Tight head: Furlong, Bealham, Jager

Second Row: Ryan, McCarthy, Beirne, Baird, Ahern, Henderson

Back Row: Conan, Doris, VDF, Timoney, Penny, Prendergast, Connors

Scrumhalf: JGP, Casey, Murray

Flyhalf: Crowley, H. Byrne, Frawley, Prendergast

Centre: Ringrose, Henshaw, Bundee, McCloskey

Wing: Lowe, Hansen, Nash, Larmour

Utility: Osbourne, J. O’Brien, Keenan

ionadnapokot

Worried by the lack of a real break the Leinster forwards and Tadgh Beirne have gotten and are going to get 2023-2025.

Ireland have played 13 Tests since the start of this season:

Porter - Ireland; Played 11 (603 minutes) / Province; Played 8 (517) Total = 1,120 minutes

Sheehan - 9 (400) / 11 (572) Total = 972 minutes

Furlong 11 (545) / 7 (322) Total = 867 minutes

Joe McCarthy 9 (504) / 11 (784) Total = 1,288 minutes

Beirne 12 (782) / 10 (790) Total = 1,572 minutes

vdF 12 (694) / 9 (540) Total = 1,234 minutes

Doris 13 (838) / 9 (610) Total = 1,448 minutes

Kelleher 10 (266) / 10 (357) Total = 623 minutes

Baird 9 (329) / 10 (740) Total = 1,069 minutes

Conan 8 (229) / 8 (320) Total = 549 minutes

Doris played every minute of 6N, and also started all of Ireland’s 5 WC games.

Leinster hopefully have 3 more games in Europe, 6 more games in URC (Plus 3 more playoffs games finishing on the 22nd June), SA tour 6th & 13th July, 8th Nov v NZ, Arg, Fiji & Aus 30th Nov. Plus 2024/25 URC & Europe season start

Taking a conservative figure of 8 more Leinster games for the remainder of the calendar year and 4 Ireland games = 960mins

Worst/Best Case is 12 more Leinster games this calendar year and 5 Ireland games = 1,360 mins

e.g. From start of this season to end of 2024 Doris could play 2,408 minutes or 2,808 minutes if Leinster make both Finals.

Then the 2025 fixtures: 6N, Europe, URC, Aus Tour, Nov Int……..

I'm all in favour of resting all the Irish forwards that are In Bold v SA.

It wont happen of course.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993158#Comment_121993158

40 would be a lot of players for just two games. Gatland used to take 37/38 on Lions tours.

Maybe it would be more like a RWC squad size travelling party. Maybe max 35 if he wanted to have a look at a few players.

Rugbyf565

Farrell took 40 to the New Zealand tour.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994272#Comment_121994272

That involved 5 matches though.

Playing South Africa two weekends in a row surely would only need a squad size of around 30-35.

6 props, 3 hookers, 4 second rows, 6 back rows, 3 scrum-halves, 2 out-halves, 4 centres, 5 back threes, and one utility player. So maybe 34?

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993158#Comment_121993158

My guess is:

if Ryan injured I think Ahern would go.

Baird would go as a 6.

Penny and Connors wouldn’t be selected, Timoney probably would, or maybe Hodnett instead.

Sam Prendergast won’t be selected.

I think there’s a good chance Larmour won’t go unless O’Brien will still be injured by then.

Osborne won’t be selected.

Frawley will go as the utility back.

pickarooney

Is it just the two games in and out, no A games or warm ups?

phog

The provinces name a 30 man squad for their tours to SA for the URC. I assume Farrell would have bring a larger squad as they wouldn't be like a provincial squad training together, week in, week out.

sydthebeat

Hookers sheahan kelleher and Stewart

As great as herring is, he has two younger starters ahead of him. Time to move on

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994767#Comment_121994767

I think so, South Africa have a busy schedule with Wales June 22nd, Ireland July 6th & 13th, and Portugal July 20th, a few weeks off and then into the Rugby Championship away against Australia August 10th.

I think they wanted to keep it as a mini-tour as their players needed some bit of a break after the World Cup campaign.

Although they could nearly field two completely separate teams I suppose for the Wales and Portugal matches compared to the Irish matches.

Rugbyf565

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994355#Comment_121994355

Will Connors is a 6ft5 grappler and a chop tackler, who can play 6 and 7. He has been capped for Ireland before and has started in two important Heineken cup games this year (including this weekend vs LAR). In my books he is way ahead of Hodnett on the Irish squad. Penny young URC player of the year and has high try scoring stats, he is also ahead of Hodnett. Osbourne goes if Jimmy O’Brien is injured, he is the most talented hybrid player in Ireland (capable of playing winger, fullback, 12, 13).

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996098#Comment_121996098

I’d say back row is going to be:

6) Baird and Prendergast

7) Van der Flier and 1 more

8) Doris and Conan

The second 7 could be Timoney, Connors, Penny or Hodnett.

I’d go with Timoney.

Of the other 3 I’d say Hodnett is the outside bet, as he hasn’t had a chance yet.

I don’t have any strong opinions between Connors or Penny, both would do a good job if called upon.

For the outside backs I'd say Osborne may be behind Larmour if O'Brien were injured, but Osborne would be a suitable injury replacement for any of the centres. I don't really see him as anything other than a centre personally, he could be a great 12, better creator/distributor than Henshaw, not sure he has the pace you'd want for an outside centre or back three at international level.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996160#Comment_121996160

The second 7 could be Timoney, Connors, Penny or Hodnett.

If we're only playing two matches, I'd bet that the second 7 will be Doris. I assume you're omitting POM for retirement reasons but if he stays another year, he'll travel ahead of Prendergast.

I hope we get some sort of Wolfhounds game organised.

CMcsporty

I hope an Emerging Ireland side is selected. Imagine how triggered the Saffers would be.

Couldn't care less in the the greater scheme of things if we win or loose those games.

Rugbyf565

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996234#Comment_121996234

It’ll be a disgrace if POM travels. It’s a slap in the face to Baird, Ahern, Prendergast who are all better modern 6’s. I’ve always seen Timoney as more of an 8, but I guess he could play 7 too. We’ve insane depth at open side, its hard to believe.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996878#Comment_121996878

If he goes another year and isn't injured - they will hardly leave the captain at home?

CatInABox

Another year at Munster for POM

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1778727727060627563

Rugbyf565

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009358#Comment_122009358

is this an IRFU dual contract?

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009459#Comment_122009459

It doesn't say , but I think that in itself suggests that it's a Provincial contract only.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009645#Comment_122009645

Press release says "Munster Rugby and the IRFU are pleased to confirm…"

Whenever it's a central contract, IRFU are named first.

Ribs1234

papers saying Munster contract topped up by IRFU

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996878#Comment_121996878

Personally I'd be looking to probably Doris to captain the team moving forward, but the reality is as we speak O'Mahony is the Ireland captain so I suspect he will tour SA and that is hardly a disgrace! But yes it would certainly be a good tour for the names mentioned above to be on.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122010268#Comment_122010268

I am ambivalent about the SA tour - but I can't say I would be thrilled if POM was still captain next year.

Rugbyf565

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122010268#Comment_122010268

what a shitshow

Rugbyf565

like I’m sorry but Ahern, Prendergast, Baird are all much better blindside flankers than O’Mahony at this stage. Can’t see him keeping captaincy if he can’t perform. Time we call a spade a spade.

Foxtrol

Biggest issue with POM is that he really hamstrings the bench. He cant last 80 minutes unless in an absolute emergency so everything else has to be built around that fact.

I understand people potentially believing there is a case that POM is better than those other options still but I cant see any argument that he is so far ahead of them and so valuable that he is worth having to adjust your whole bench strategy around his clear limitations.

I said it months ago that my opinion is that he'll travel as a tour captain but someone else will captain one or both games with him benching or left out altogether.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011711#Comment_122011711

I understand people potentially believing there is a case that POM is better than those other options still but I cant see any argument that he is so far ahead of them and so valuable that he is worth having to adjust your whole bench strategy around his clear limitations.

It's not like this is news to Farrell all the same. VDF and Doris are both very capable of going the full 80 I guess is the line of thinking.

I think he has played a good role as an intermediate captain. He has lofted the trophy but it's very much time to just move on.

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011711#Comment_122011711

I think your right. We should be rotating players in semi regularly in general