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Deposit return scheme (recycling)

17879818384120

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,757 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    If it's a different barcode you'd expect the one for the vending machine would have no logo.

    If they are the same barcode then Tesco customers won't get the deposit back.

    Maybe someone else can shed more light on this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭jj880


    Nothing to be found on water.ie. No surprise there. I'm assuming the Indo article leads on from this EU Court Of Justice ruling from January this year:

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ireland-found-guilty-of-failing-to-ensure-safe-drinking-water-by-eu-court-1579795.html

    THMs are considered dangerous to both human health and the environment with high levels of THMs linked to diseases of the liver, kidney and central nervous system as well as bladder and colon cancer.

    They can also cause gastrointestinal problems and skin irritation.

    The findings by the CJEU relate to 21 public water supplies and nine private water group schemes.

    The public water schemes include those supplying drinking water to Kilkenny c=City; Bray, Co Wicklow; Schull, Co Cork; Ring, Co Waterford; Glenties, Co Donegal; Greystones, Co Wicklow; and Granard, Co Longford.

    Other than that I guess wait to see if we get a leaflet through the door unless someone else can find anything better.

    Like I said a few times on thread. If anything good comes from this scheme it will be that people will invest in cleaning their drinking / cooking water supply with an under sink filter (or if theres anything else I'd be interested to hear about it for sure) as it will be more cost effective than bottled water with Re-Turn deposits added.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Producer **** up not registering the barcode



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,757 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    This is the full list from the Irish Times article I linked earlier.

    It should be widely available especially as during the Summer people will be moving around the country more.

    West Clare – Regional Water Supply (New Water Treatment Plant) – Population: 8,702

    West Clare – Regional Water Supply (Old Water Treatment Plant) – 3,028

    Cork – Mitchelstown North – 2,317

    Cork – Castletownbere – 2,328

    Donegal – Lettermacaward – 2,266

    Donegal – Glenties-Ardara – 3,518

    Donegal – Milford – 3,714

    Kerry – Aughacasla – 340

    Kerry – Cahersiveen – 1,500

    Kerry – CaraghLake – 1,866

    Kerry – Listowel – 14,905

    Kerry – Kilgarvan – 656

    Kerry – Lyreacrompane – 2,490

    Kilkenny City Radestown – 14,162

    Limerick City Environs – 114,764

    Longford Central – 17,354

    Meath – Drumconrath – 1,151

    Meath – Navan 10.360

    Offaly – Clare/Ferbane – 7,341

    Roscommon – North East Regional – 7,997

    Tipperary – Nenagh – 14,483

    Tipperary – Thurles – 11,394

    Wicklow – Aughrim/Annacurra – 1,583



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,534 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    First time using machine and only 1 rejection wrong barcode and no logo. Everything went smoothly as was carrying a green tote with everything to hand. 7.70 refunded and happy i was getting getting rid of all stock i had.

    SuperValu in Mt.Merrion i rang yesterday to see when switched on and told at opening hours and as getting out of car came to life. First thing in the morning and first to use it and machine gets emptied twice a day they said.

    Simple and straight forward and it did have a finish button to press and 1 receipt.

    Happy no issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,927 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Surely return numbers will never reached the wanted figures?

    For example - at an Intercounty match yesterday, between both panels and management there were probably 60 bottles of water (with logos) opened and about 40 Lucozade Sports (with logos). Logic would say that 0 of those will be returned via a machine. The team is getting screwed every matchday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Teams used reusable bottles in the past, they can go back



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,927 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    I dunno. Intercounty with a million people in and around the setup, that just becomes a mess with things getting lost.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,757 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    That's €15 and it might be worthwhile providing a container to collect the empties.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,326 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    Hell of a leap to 0. The club hosting the game would collect any & bring them back, same as they'll be doing at training/matches already.

    Still think 'on the go' will be the biggest problem for the scheme. Are people going to go out of their way to find a machine/bring it home or just pop it in nearest bin. If you don't use cash at all would you be bothered for 20c. Can see a lot being left on tables for others to return though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭00sully


    I find this whole process really satisfying as an avid recycler. Justl so enjoyable using the machine and rewarding getting the money and into the shop with it.

    I was telling my sister about how easy it was and she just stares at me .. "eh yeah we had to do this all the time I lived in ithaca NY." Totally normal in most other countries.

    The moaning on here is the most eye rolling stuff I've ever read on boards. That is saying something with the constant whinging on here across the board in general 😳



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I always recycle my plastic bottles, cans and cardboard, in the green bin outside my front door - which I pay a monthly fee for.

    This morning I had to bring a bag of cans and bottles to a machine to recycle them, instead of putting them in the bin right outside my front door, to get my deposits back.

    That is futile. We should have one system or the other, but not both.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭randomname2005


    I would be an avid recycler too, and love how my previous set up worked well. One recycle bin in the house that all recyclables went into. Now there are two. Many of us can't just rearrange our storage to have a second bin especially as you can't crush them to take up less space.

    Usage of the machines has varied for me. Sone problems initially, probably due to suppliers not having the barcode listed and having valid cans rejected. But dropped about 30 cans in (no judgement, right?) with no issues yesterday.

    My biggest issue is the lack of easily available logic behind it. Yes, our recycling numbers are lower than needed, but I couldn't find any data where the breakdown was explained. If most or all of the containers purchased as part of a weekly shop are recycled, and very few of the 'on the go ' purchases, or kids lunch purchases are recycled, I don't think this scheme will be the panacea they expect as many people will not carry the containers around with them, and school kids are too cool to be worrying about 20c.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,836 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    When it works it fine, except for the lack of direct payment. No doubt that was at the behest of the retailers as it gives them almost guaranteed spend.

    The issues, as with all these type of rollouts, is that not enough is done to ensure that there are minimal issues.

    Broken machines, retailers charging deposits on products not part of the scheme (older stock), machines refusing what appears to be perfectly fine products. Issues with delivery services.

    All of that should have been forseen and extra care taken to minimise their occurance to avoid any rejection of the scheme.

    Like the smoking ban, plastic ban levy etc, eventually it will all work out but why the disregard for peoples obvious reluctantance which will only increase if things don't work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Yes and the vast majority of responsible citizens and voters will agree with you.

    It may be nothing to do with local councillors as a decision but as it affects people locally, burn their ears and vote accordingly in June. Likewise for the Euro elections who by accounts here, are really responsible. Toss the incumbents out on their ears!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Those who will recycle will do it. Dirtbags who litter aren't going to change their tune for a few cent.

    If the local councils would actually collect rubbish from public bins, but also install segregated bins to allow for recycling and composting in public, we wouldn't need this stupid system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭jj880


    If someone can find an RVM scheme that takes the p!ss out of the customer as much as Re-Turn please post the details here.

    I havent seen any yet.

    Then we'll see how "enjoyable" and "rewarding" it is to use a comparable scheme.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭nachouser


    Aside from a photo op, does anyone honestly think Simon or Caoimhe Harris are going to be rocking up to their local Aldi with a bag of cans anytime soon?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Indeed, that should have been the very first thing they tried. It's a disgrace how the number of bins has reduced over time, rather than increased and adapted to recycling. The LAs will say people were abusing the bins and putting domestic rubbish in, but they could monitor that with CCTV. The truth is more like that they can't be arsed to empty them in timely fashion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,091 ✭✭✭appledrop


    Nearly lost the will to live this evening using the one in Aldi.

    Had a mix of cans and water bottles all from same multipacks but kept randomly telling me this one not part of the scheme. An absolute lie and load of crap, all had the logo and paid deposit on them all.

    Anyway it eventually took them all, after many attempts.

    I must have been giving out loud because myself and lady beside ended up chatting about how it was a load of nonsense as we recycled everything anyway in our green bin!

    Moral of the story keep trying even if rejecting them if you know they are OK.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭randomname2005


    I wish this was the only reason, but people can't be trusted. There is the possibility of household rubbish, but people throwing random crap in recycle bins too. Not looking at the description, just throwing it in



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,956 ✭✭✭✭Mimikyu


    I was stuck waiting about ten minutes for the two in front of me today in Aldi. Both had black sacks full to the brim. One seemed to be having a lot of problems with theirs as most of their bottles were crushed so they ended up dumping at least half of them in the reject container. I was next so I hung on, but there was a queue behind me when they eventually finished.

    In fairness the machine worked fine for me when I eventually got to it. Pain in the arse compared to the green bin though.

    Popped into Lidl for a few things after and both machines were out of order and seen a number of people leaving with bags of cans/bottles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,377 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    Can a retailer post here of the experience of what goes on behind the scene?

    After the bin is emptied, where does the plastic go?

    To thine own self be true



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Wouldn't surprise me if there is a breaking story in the future where some of this recycling is ending up in the incinerator…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,052 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    I've seen a video of the cans and plastic bottles all crushed and placed in Re-Turn branded plastic crates (similar to the size bulk potatoes are stored in), no seperation, they are then loaded in to a Re-Turn bin truck which then compacts them further.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 970 ✭✭✭bog master


    Same experience last week. Couple with 2 trolleys with black sacks. He was loading them in, those rejected were fired into the other trolley. Still at it when I finished the shopping-at least 15 minutes they were at it.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,963 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Went to my local supervalu yesterday with €6.70 worth of deposit material. Not only was the machine not working, but it actually had the shutters pulled down in it, at 4:45 in the afternoon.

    Off to Lidl with me and my custom. Supervalu lost about €70s worth of shopping from me.

    Seems certain retailers beginning to give up on this scheme.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Retailers the size of Supervalu stores aren't allowed give up.

    Needs to be some enforcement of the manual returns if machines are OOO, I suspect there'd be a hell of a lot more effort put in to keeping them online in that case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    The local Supervalu one opens way after their store opening time and closes way before closing time. Possibly 2 hours at either side any time I've passed.

    Someone said earlier here that the machines cannot be upgraded technically. Does that mean deposits will be increased at some point to pay for the upgrade costs of new machines, to move us to this century as regards to getting us from slips of paper to digital refunds?

    We don't use many plastic bottles here, but I pay with card, I would like refunds (if not shopping) to be given to me through the card also.

    And surely if refunds can only be spent in the shop in which you use their return machine, is that not against some kind of competition law? It makes little sense if I buy a can of coke on a journey, and want to dispose of same, I either have forfeit the deposit or bring it to a large shop for a coin refund. (Going back to previous point where I don't use cash). It's almost as if the system is made to be as awkward to the consumer so the retailer benefits.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There's multiple models of machine from multiple manufacturers; if there's card / EFT return based systems elsewhere using the same families of machines I'd presume there's upgrade paths but some may not have any.

    The cash return option would make any competition complaint irrelevant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭Daith


    The best you'll get is some random spot checks.

    This is going to be the reality of the scheme with some stores doing better than others and some stores not getting machines fixed or very random opening hours. And they will be allowed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    Saw another issue with these yesterday.

    Went to collect the nieces from a birthday party. I bought a few of the kids some drinks. Fantas cokes etc.

    While i was talking to the parents the staff came around grabbing the cans that the kids were not finished drinking. Deposits paid on them all. I told them to leave the cans there that they werent finished yet. I already knew i would never get my deposit back as i wasnt collecting them myself from each child and taking them away with me.

    Didnt stop the staff trying it though.

    But here is a situation where i paid a deposit on 8 cans and will never see it back myself. Maybe the odd kid will get some back. I suspect most wont. The play center will probably get most of the money i paid though when they collect the cans that were left afterwards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    The whole system is another con on the consumer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭jj880


    Here's your sister's scheme in NY:

    In New York, sold beverage containers included in the deposit program must have a deposit of 5¢. Retailers are responsible for arranging the collection and processing of empty containers, and they must pay dealers and redemption centers for the deposits, as well as 3.5¢ handling fee for each empty beverage container. Consumers may receive a refund when they redeem their containers at retailers that sell beverages for off-premise consumption. Food or beverage establishments must accept all returned containers, but are not required to provide refunds. 

    So a 5c deposit.

    https://dec.ny.gov/environmental-protection/recycling-composting/bottle-bill

    Consumers may then return their empty beverage containers to a retailer or redemption center to get their deposit back.

    They also have redemption centres for bulk returns.

    Since the Act went into effect, redemption rates have been an average of 65 percent and beverage container litter has been reduced by 70 percent. A small deposit pays big dividends in conservation of energy and valuable resources.

    And why not if you run a proper scheme that doesnt shaft the consumer harder than anywhere else. We have our own ways of doing things in Ireland though.

    So no an anecdote from your sister in NY is not a fair comparison when calling Irish people whingers for pointing out the flaws of Re-Turn is it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭howiya


    Article in the Sunday Times yesterday.

    A couple of things that stood out to me.

    1. As of last Thursday, 37.5 million items have been returned. It'd be interesting if they would publish how many items deposits have been paid on and we could see a percentage.
    2. An environmental scientist and policy advisor believes the deposit may be too low;

    “Fifteen cents hasn’t been enough to get my son motivated to go and pick up rubbish to get that money, which is interesting,” she said.

    No mention of whether she'd go picking up rubbish for 15 cents but expects her son to. Do as I say and not as I do. Hardly surprising given her occupation.

    3. A service station that could obtain an exemption is thinking of withdrawing from the scheme.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,927 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Similar one in the gym I use funnily enough.

    They now have a bin for 'Plastic Bottles and Cans ONLY'. Has only been there since the scheme started. I thought to myelf they're hardly scrimping for people's deposits back etc. but the note on the bin says otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭Daith


    What will motivate someone to return the cans are the availability of machines.

    Of course that won't happen and whacking up the fee is the only thing that will happen.

    We need to get out of this mindset of "motivating" people by charging them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    The 'anti competition' element you mention is baked into the scheme, agreed to give them incentives to participate. Thank Minister Ossian Smyth for this - it's his baby.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,377 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    To thine own self be true



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,052 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    No idea, or idea how many of them there are. It all goes to Limerick, would be nice to get a view of how many trucks and how often they are entering the facility.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭SteM


    Shine said the 15c refund may not be a big enough incentive for people to return their containers. “Fifteen cents hasn’t been enough to get my son motivated to go and pick up rubbish to get that money, which is interesting,” she said.

    What a bizarre comment to make about your son. Of course it's not enough motivation, what can a kid buy for 15c these days? They'd need to pick up 8 or 9 undamaged cans and bring them back to the nearest machine - and hope it's working - just to be able to buy a can of coke which they can probably pick out of their fridge. Also, from a young age we teach kids not to touch stuff that's on the ground - 'put it down, that's dirty'. Now we're expecting kids to hunt around looking for undamaged cans? Does this person leave in the real world?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,799 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Does this person live in the real world?

    Not really no. Thats part of the problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,780 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    You are lucky with your 2 bins we have 4, general waste, food bin, recycle bin and now the bottle/can bin, practically my own recycling centre in the corner of the kitchen.

    The main issue is with this scheme is that it removes the freedom to shop around. So you have to buy your drinks in the shop where you brought them back too. I use to go to the shop that were doing the best offers, usually of soft drinks and would buy there but now that is not the case because you can use the voucher in the shop were you deposited the bottles or cans. Is it really worth it going in to get the cash. The most that I have got out of the machine is €12.20. Even worse when you are buying a drink on the go, do you bring a bottle back for the 15c?

    Where as if they had a system were you bring the bottles back and you can get the money refunded to your account would be better or even if they introduced a return card that you swipe and get credit on it and then that card can be used in any shop and not just were you brought the bottles and cans back to would be better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,836 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    It doesn't remove any freedom. You can buy anywhere and return anywhere. The voucher can be redeemed for cash, but retailers prefer to give credit as that is better both for cash flow and revenue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭Daith


    You can't return anywhere. You can buy from a cafe but not return to that cafe. Or smaller shops.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,851 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    At best you are just getting your own money back....and at what cost to yourself and at what cost to the environment?

    You don't think that the concerns of those that shop from home, those with limited mobility and those who actually care about the environment aren't valid?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,081 ✭✭✭Genghis


    Re-turn have never released the number of items on which deposits have been paid. This can only be because they are not great.

    They like to mention big numbers like 37.5m containers returned (hoping we will all be somewhere impressed we will not ask for any other data) but 5m containers a day are sold here, 37.5m items is not great.

    Until someone can provide solid evidence to the contrary, I contend that the daily rate of items sold with deposit is currently comfortably over 90%. I base this on a number of checks both online and in-store I have done over recent weeks. It's really only odds and ends now that are available without deposit.

    It will be 100% from 1 June, I guess re-turn are hoping the daily returns get over 3m a day as a minimum. Daily numbere are running at or maybe a little less than half that now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,757 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Correct you can only return to places that have an RVM or do manual returns.

    The smaller outlets have an exemption based on the size of the premises.

    However you can buy in one place and return to another.



This discussion has been closed.
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