Deposit return scheme (recycling)

BorneTobyWilde

I think there should be dedicated bins on every street that are only big enough to take a can or bottle, they should be paired with general street bins, and should be every where a public bin is, as in gas stations, stores, if there is a public bin, there should be a bin with an opening only bin enough for cans and bottles paired with it. I think that would have worked better than this scheme, as for the most part, the cans and bottles not getting recycled are cans and bottles throw into public bins.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943471#Comment_121943471

thanks for the words of encouragement. it's something i never even considered, but yeah it's nice to think about. There's alot of cans and plastic going to waste, if it was'nt for this scheme then probebly more would have gone to waste (referencing my use of the scheme and any others who start using the scheme and making use of any cans/bottles they find, finding a new home for bottles from being general waste binned by businesses, factories etc).

i can't help but feel that the scheme is also much more responsible (as a root cause via backlash) that there's gonna be alot more cans and bottles actually going to waste (due to protest, boycott, and people outraged by the scheme to send a message, or couldn't be arsed with taking part).

Whenever i see big numbers being spouted by the scheme, i'm going to consider and give credit to the people who helped get those numbers rather than give any thanks or credit to the scheme itself. i see the same happen in charity all the time too where the fundraiser/people hosting the fundraiser gets the credit for the funds raised rather than the individual participants. But at least charity is optional, this scheme we don't really have much choice and being bullied/coerced into it. i find it very dishonorable for return to wave numbers around and sprout all that "we hit x million returns" stuff, when they're not really giving people much choice. It's the people that should get the credit. And i would like to personally thank you for acknowledging what i do and giving me credit. Thank you.

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944259#Comment_121944259

To save me reading the whole thread, what have you been doing? Serious question, and a brief answer would suffice.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121942549#Comment_121942549

There will be a huge reduction in plastic bottles discarded meaning a reduction in rubbish particularly in sports where I see a lot of discarded plastic bottles. Each one of these bottles are worth money now so after every running race & GAA training event (both very bad for this type of rubbish) there'll be an incentive to clean up after them. And if they don't and simply leave them in a pile someone else will avail of the return fee.

As I said, like all of these schemes you'll get used to it and in a years time you won't think twice about recycling your plastic bottles.

zell12

Re-turn CEO coming up on Newstalk in the next 15 minutes, get your rants in now!

bog master

Thanks to @Tow for this. A few bits from the submission. Apologies for wonky formatting!

https://assets.gov.ie/153814/ec9ef046-1ee3-48eb-a3e7-42cccf3793dd.pdf

To: Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications. From: Repak Ltd

Date: 12 November 2020

Subject: Deposit Return Scheme - Consultation on Potential Models for Ireland

 

Attached please find Repak's submission to the public consultation process, published on 2 October by DECC, on Deposit Return Scheme — Consultation on Potential Models for Ireland.

 

Consultation Questions.

 

•         Of the three proposed models, Repak favours a centrally operated, not for profit, Hybrid DRS model with an equitable representative governance structure.

 

•          A strong advantage of a Hybrid model is that it builds on existing waste infrastructure, which envisages a key role for waste collectors in the collection and management of DRS materials.

•          Repak is not aware of examples of other DRS models which could work in an Irish context, but with advances in technology this may change in the future.

 

               DRS Key Design Elements

Repak has thoroughly researched the topic of DRS, not only across EU Member States but also in the United States, Canada and further afield in Australia. Repak also carried out a series of visits, to see at first hand, DRS models in operation in a number of other countries both inside and outside the EU, namely Sweden, Norway and Lithuania.

What is clear from the research is that no two DR5 schemes are identical and there is no “off the shelf solution” for a DRS model in Ireland.

The scheme should also provide for return points at Civic Amenity Sites, Sports Clubs, Charity Organisations and Tidy Towns.

Ownership of Material

In an operational DRS model ownership of the material is retained by the DR5 operator. In financial and hybrid models, other stakeholders own the material and the income from the sale of same.

Logistics

A cost-effective collection system is essential for DRS and in this regard, there are many collection options available. The options extend to using the existing recovery operator collection system (which may need to be modified to meet the “separate collection“ criteria) and the use of back hauling and reverse IogistÏE5 änd opening the collection up to other private operators.

The RVM data is usually transmitted online to the DRS database on a daily basis and collections can be scheduled based on live information.

Do you favour a:

a)      decentralised / financial DRS; or, Hybrid

 

Strengths/Advantages of a Hybrid DRS

A hybrid model presents the greatest opportunity to build on and maximise the use of existing waste collection and sorting infrastructure across Ireland. This could reduce scheme set up costs, as a series of retrofits may be possible to existing recycling infrastructure without the need for planning approval. It also has the potential to provide the most cost- effective DRS solution.

•     Repak recommends a hybrid DRS model as the most equitable and practical option that reflects Ireland's unique waste collection landscape, which for the most part is managed by private sector waste collectors.

•     The general view of the waste industry is DRS is a significant threat to their businesses. A hybrid model could alleviate some of the concerns which the waste industry has in relation to the perceived negatlve impact, which DRS may have, on the current kerbside collection system.

•     A hybrid DRS model could incentivise and provide an opportunity for the waste industry to contribute in the detailed design of the model and to play a role in the operation of a DR5. This in some sense represents a new role for waste co(lectors, which should be considered by the DRS. At any rate the hybrid model would, minimise lost revenue to the waste industry and provide an alternative service provision which the waste industry could provide and receive the financial reward.

•     Repak believes that a newly established centralised, operational DRS model, depending on the role, could be in direct competition with existing waste collectors and MRFs. This could be wasteful, leading to duplication of effort and resources.

•      

•     Question 3. Are there other models you believe could work in an Irish context?

•     Repak Response

•     Currently there is no alternative, tried, tested and proven DRS model which could work in an Irish context,

 

•     Question 4. What role should waste collectors play in the operation of a DRS7 Repak Response

•     On the basis that the hybrid model is the preferred model, waste collectors should play an integral role in DRS and should be consulted throughout the planning and implementation stage of the scheme.

•     Once DR5 is implemented, the majority of plastic bottles and aluminium cans will be taken out of the existing kerbside scheme - which in turn means that waste collectors will be at a loss from the sale of these two valuable commodities,

•     In order to mitigate their potential financial loss, it makes good business sense for waste operators to participate in DRS and to agree a role in the collection, sorting and counting of deposit bearing containers. They have the expertise and experience of managing packaging waste and they should leverage this to their own benefit and that of the DRS scheme.

this wou(d also be beneficial as it would significantly reduce the setup cost of the scheme. There would be no delay on planning, licencing etc. as existing infrastructure could be utilized Using existing infrastructure would significantly reduce set up costs - it would be similar to the Norway DRS model in that - collect the maximum amount of material at a minimum cost

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944397#Comment_121944397

Was he still telling people to ring Re-Turn, they will sort it?

Was his salary ever published? It has to be one of the best jobs in Ireland, a review every 3 and a half years and if targets are not met that is everyone else's fault.

But more money for them, Chit ching!!!

Ken Tucky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944397#Comment_121944397

I was listening to the piece they did on the RVM's on Tuesday morning. God, your man Coleman is insufferable.

Another one who like to generalize. Something along the lines of 'We the Irish just like to give out' because the system works just fine for him.

He makes my blood boil in fairness so maybe its me being irrational.

And, yes they should disclose the CEO's salary. Im guessing €350000

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941666#Comment_121941666

I think we've established that DRS was coming. The specifics of this scheme, the cack handed project management, lack of real public consultation etc etc etc - the list goes on, is ultimately the fault of this current government and opposition if truth be told.

There were countless ways to enhance our collection rates AND/OR put disencetives on purchasing plastic bottles without this cack handed nonsense but we've ended up a scheme that is not fit for purpose and will in fact set us back.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944424#Comment_121944424

Proof there that repak had some good ideas that have been echoed by many on this and similiar threads but were ignored in the main by the decision makers. Again, a public consultation that consulted on a scheme where the nuts and bolts had already been decided.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944592#Comment_121944592

These public consultations are nothing of the sort. Just a fig leaf \ con job, clearly any submission out of line with the pre-ordained decision is just binned, yet we get patronising lectures of why didn't you make a submission to the consultation.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944424#Comment_121944424

This Green Party has some serious explanations needed to the Irish public: here we have Repak an organisation already integrally involved in recycling recommending that existing waste collectors should be integrated into such a deposit scheme. What does the relevant Green minister do? Ignores this and comes up with a cack handed arrangement with the vested interests of the big retailers...

What did we see in the recent referendums? Green minister ignoring the Citizens Assembly and coming out with own convoluted wordings that were roundly rejected.

These are Green Party problems and it pains me as a former member of same, to see them so arrogant and assuming they know better than all. Green industrial zealots is what they've morphed into.

bog master

I would like to note, a large number of points I highlighted in the document has been posted previously by the many fine posters on this thread.

Well done!

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944424#Comment_121944424

Ive read this twice and I still don't understand what a Hybrid DRS scheme is.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945058#Comment_121945058

A method for bin companies to hold on to the aluminium value; using, erm, something they'll come up with later, honest, as the method. Repak's submission admitted that there was no such system as the one they wanted.

The bin companies submission actually suggested something - a bonkers idea of using an app that would let you just scan the same thing over and over again and never actually put it in any bin let alone recycling; backed up by a completely scientifically invalid "trial". Oh, and you couldn't get your deposit back at all if you didn't have a bin contract in your own name - they never suggested any hybrid element.

bog master

I understand it to be as a system where waste collection companies are involved, they collect etc and own the recyclables. The ehmmm non Hybrid is what we have now.

Floppybits

Am in departures in Dublin airport and any bottle you buy there has this deposit on it but nowhere to dispose of the bottle to get my money back unless I hold onto the bottle bring it with me on holidays and then when I get back bring it to a shop. Surely the airport should have been exempt. One final rip off for tourists before they leave

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945443#Comment_121945443

But but but its all about increasing our collection rate... theres another percentage of sales Return is happy to pocket in its greasy till. Remember those sales if we dont get to 90%.

Another cohort Return is happy to ripoff along with the disabled and those who get home deliveries.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945443#Comment_121945443

A nice kick in the hole on the way out the door for visitors olrite. 2 months into the trial period and stuff like this should be sorted. Doesn't seem to be much fixing anything going on. Bull on to feck.

bog master

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945443#Comment_121945443

Just have that warm feeling of being appreciated you are paying the salaries of the top cats at ReTurn

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945176#Comment_121945176

I'm imagine a recycling truck going round with one of those RVMs built in that can take a big load of containers at once and scans them in seconds.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945462#Comment_121945462

I wouldn't mind if there was a bin to put the bottles and the money goes to some charities.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945476#Comment_121945476

Australian RVM scheme has touch screen donate to charity.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945480#Comment_121945480

There is not even an RVM machine in departures.

lisasimpson

There are just some people that couldn't give a monkeys about getting money back the amount of bottles and can (recently deposed of) on the side of our motorways.often the bottles are still half or a quarter full. It's like people go I've enough of that and throw it out the car. We are not going to change those peoples minds

Archeron

Just stopped in a shop for lunch, one i dont regularly use. Spotted a baby rvm in the corner so picked up a can of Pepsi. Finished it, into the machine, got my receipt.

Bring it to the til and the lady tries to scan to give my money back. No response after three tries. She hands me back the receipt, says sorry the system is down, try again next time.

This was my fifth attempt to use this mockery, the first where a machine was actually working, and STILL i cannot my money back.

Its becoming very obvious that they have made this as difficult as possible in order to keep our money. Its pure simple government sponsored theft with the added bonus of serious environmental damage.

purplefields

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121938457#Comment_121938457

Under normal circumstances then yes, deposits would not be taxable.

However, if an individual were to collect hundreds of bottles from a third party - like a company - and profit from those then that would be taxable income. You are not getting 'your' money back. You are claiming back the money of a company. This is income. Financial gain.

Do you you really believe that Revenue would be okay with people doing this? potentially claiming back thousands of euros 'tax free'?

purplefields

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121938191#Comment_121938191

Please do stop.

Maybe then can we get a better system in place.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945443#Comment_121945443

There are two RVMs airside in Dublin Airport, one in each terminal.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945473#Comment_121945473

You're obviously not a green party member. If you were you'd be huckstered out the door by the armpits for such an innovative CO2 saving suggestion.