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Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself? [Threadbanned users in 1st post]

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Comments

  • Administrators Posts: 14,690 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    If you feel you are being unfairly treated you can of course contact another moderator or go to the Cat-moderator. It's probably better to go to the Category Moderator but there's no rule that you cannot PM any moderator in any forum. If you find one moderator hot headed, of course you can try discuss with a more reasonable moderator.

    There's a poster in PI who thinks I have a grudge against them. As a result I have agreed to not action that poster any more and let the other moderators deal with them.

    As with any poster if you get a PM from a moderator that you think is abusive or out of line you should report it. Take a screenshot and send it to any Admin.





  • I would suggest to all posters appealing an infraction also that you focus on your own post/warning and not about those around you.

    A lot of attempts at appeal I come across usually involve an attempt to discuss others, out of respect for all I personally will never discuss another poster with anyone else (bar other mods of course when necessary).

    It is never acceptable to lash out regardless if you feel like you’ve been on the receiving end of uncivil posting, please report it and let us deal with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭Packrat


    @Big Bag of Chips , any comment to add on the unbanning of one the most vexatious serial rereg trolls in CA this morning?

    There's been lots of fine words here about dealing with low level trolling but action speaks many times louder..

    Clearly Beasty isn't on board with any proposed change to how they are dealt with. His action this morning is a slap in the face to those who took their time to post on the topic here, and demonstrates what the moderation policy on these individuals will be from here on.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    @bigbagofchips

    If you feel you are being unfairly treated you can of course contact another moderator or go to the Cat-moderator. It's probably better to go to the Category Moderator but there's no rule that you cannot PM any moderator in any forum. If you find one moderator hot headed, of course you can try discuss with a more reasonable moderator.

    Can we get this stickied somewhere? Because I have always understood that this was not an option, and that you had to deal with mod who issued the warning / threadban in all circumstances. CMod also didn't want to know, until this was done.

    Thanks.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,256 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    You should always start by contacting the same mod.

    You can contact another mod or the cmod if you think the mod is being unfair to you.



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  • Administrators Posts: 14,690 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    If you've been issued a warning and are disputing it the first step is to discuss with the moderator in question.

    If you have ongoing issues with a specific moderator then of course you can contact the moderation team and/or the C-Mod to raise your concerns.

    You are all aware that moderators have their own forums to discuss issues in their particular forums. Some teams are much better than others at communicating with each other. But if a complaint is made to a moderator about another moderator it will be discussed and addressed. The moderator may discuss it with the team as a whole or may go to the C-Mod themselves for advice.

    But everyone on here is an adult. So adults should be able to discuss issues with each other. There are formal processes in place for raising disputes or complaints but that doesn't mean that informal avenues can't be taken too. Very often a PM outlining issues can help to highlight problems and get them sorted without the need for formal procedure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    That sounds good in theory, but call me cynical - I can't see that going down well with mods if other mods from the same forum intervened and started over-ruling them.

    As I've said, I've found CMods don't want to know unless you've dealt with the mod first.



  • Administrators Posts: 14,690 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    I've already said on this thread it is a forum I know very little about and tend to stay away from! So I don't even know what poster and which thread you are talking about.

    I will go to the moderators and C-Mods though and discuss what's going on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    So adults should be able to discuss issues with each other.

    You'd wish.

    But there are mods that don't do that. They don't discuss, they take the line "do as I say, not as I do", and expect nothing less than an admission of wrong behaviour and a grovelling apology, even if their action was (in the opinion of the person challenging it) unwarranted.

    This is where accusations of power-tripping mods comes in.

    I personally will not admit to wrong-doing or apologise for something just for the sake of it when I believe the mod was wrong in the first place.

    It leaves a poster between a rock and a hard place.



  • Administrators Posts: 14,690 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Ezeuol, as mentioned above if you are having ongoing issues with a "power-tripping mod" then highlight it with someone else.

    It will be looked at and it will be dealt with.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I don't, currently, and I hope I never will. Now I just don't bother with the forum they mod any more.

    But I am filing the information on this thread for future use, if ever its needed.

    As an aside, as well as the "ignore poster" function, boards should explore getting an "ignore thread" or "ignore forum" feature, if possible, with Vanilla.



  • Administrators Posts: 14,690 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    There are loads of threads and loads of forums I don't ever click in to.

    It's possible to manually ignore a thread/forum you don't want to read.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    An actual ignore function would remove the likelihood of clicking into an area you don't want to visit, when you browse via "Latest Posts" or "Recent Discussions" instead of by forum.

    Anyway, it was just a suggestion. Feel free to ignore.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I was told twice by different admins I couldn’t.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Fair enough. I always thought threadbans were a HelpDesk matter.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I PM’d the mod, who happens to be an admin and got short shrift. The 2nd time it happened I appealed to other admins, I was told nothing could be done. Threadban can’t be appealed.

    I won’t name names as I don’t want to make this about me. I want to make it about process fairness.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 410 ✭✭Patrick Mahomes


    This isn’t meant as a slight on you because you are being honest but when a poster who has been on the site since 2008 and is a C-mod on the site isn’t sure about one version of an appeals process does work say a lot really how convoluted some of the stuff on Boards is.

    Regards,

    P.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭NSAman


    Have to say, lots of the moderation is skewed towards a left leaning (some might say far left). I hold more center right views which many disagree with, thats fine it is supposed to be a discussion forum after all.

    Any opposing views lead to moderation being quick to ban on a thread.

    I'm not political. I do have opinions though and have stopped posting on any hint of political posts.

    It's interesting that you can take a ban to HelpDesk. I was also told that you have to take it up with the moderator involved. Needless to say, nothing was ever resolved as there is no point in arguing a case on an opinion piece on the internet.

    It's a shame that open discussion (yes i know that requires moderation) is stymied by one sided moderation.



  • Administrators Posts: 14,690 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Threadbans and complaints against moderators are normally dealt with in Helpdesk. They are not handled in the Dispute Resolution Forum.

    The DRP is only for points warnings and forum bans.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That's how I always understood it. I've never, ever handled a DRP about a threadban.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I’ve found that to be untrue in my own case. A lack of a clear procedure left with no option but to give up and walk away in frustration.

    To me it’s simple. Just allow the same procedure as you’d have for a forum ban for a thread ban. I said this at the time of my failed appeal and no one responded.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,141 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Taking a step back, does that process make sense to you?

    It seems confusing for users.

    What's the rationale that the DRP process cannot look at thread bans but Helpdesk can?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    it’s the lack of clear process that bothers me, not the personal impact.

    I was bitterly disappointed with how my appeal was handled, because there was a lack of process. So much so, I won’t post in a forum moderated by that person again as it’s too high risk or a repeat. Entirely my own choice.

    I bring it up to highlight a potential problem that can be easily fixed, not to get sympathy.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    Has it always gone on where posters will openly gaslight you ? In the last week or so there are at least three posters who will call you a liar (happened to me just today); deny facts (when facts have been linked to) and are very uncivil!!

    I’d prefer not to be one of those who constantly report seemingly minor things but it’s very annoying!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭tom23


    Report away. If its the same posters Im thinking off they would do the same to you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    I think I might have to - the other day I was told to prove something that I believed would happen. It’s my belief, how can I prove that ??

    But when I’m told “that is a blatant lie” and I show evidence no reply - or more gaslighting!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,927 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    A lot of people citing the Vanilla changeover as the site killer….

    I would say modding is what's killing the site, or at least the quality of modding. Why would people come back?

    Have been a member of Boards since 2007, and modding is the worst it has ever been now. I got multiple warnings in that Deposit Recycling Scheme thread and the person I was niggling with got a couple too. I'd say neither of us think the other deserved a warning at all. It's stupid stuff altogether and just sucks the life out of the site.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    So when I was modding CA the basic reasoning behind this was given to us that...

    A thread ban is essentially a moderator instruction that you have to follow. It does not appear on your permanent record therefore can't be handled by the standard DRP process.

    Whereas any warnings do appear under your profile (visible to mods, C-Mods and admins) so can be appealed via DRP.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I had a very similar experience to you.

    Posted a thread on a threadban on HelpDesk. A mod there moved it to DRP (without the courtesy of informing me or even putting a note on the thread saying they'd moved it.)

    I then got told off on DRP for posting in the wrong area!

    I was also told that I had no right to having my issue reviewed by an Admin, but "I could ask an Admin to look at it as a favour".

    I really wouldn't be bothered with it again. Waste of time.

    Post edited by Ezeoul on


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    that’s fine. But it doesn’t make sense to me.

    I’m thread banned. I ask the moderator to reconsider- I’m told no. I contact admins and C mods. They tell me I can’t appeal a threadban. So I walk away annoyed.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    I don’t know whether it is permissible to name posters and so I’ll err on the side of caution and not - but this is the thread I was talking about.

    Actual facts posted, from more than one poster and from different sources (lest there be an accusation of it being “the wrong source”) and instead of an argument or debate, there is obfuscation and lengthy wordy posts that say nothing but gaslight.

    I’m starting to not really enjoy posting and it’s generally very interesting to be here but one or two bad apples are really off putting. It’s great to discuss with people who disagree, but the disingenuity is really annoying.





  • you can in help desk.
    I don’t know who told you otherwise or why they did but they are wrong. You can and plenty have done so.

    Edit to add; I would definitely recommend it’s merged into DRP though. Regardless if it is attached to your profile etc is immaterial, I think making disputes easier to conduct and not harder for posters is the best way forward imo.
    not my decision to make of course but I certainly would suggest it’s considered anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I saw that and laughed in the context of this thread, adds virtually nothing to those discussions and the cause of many quarrels as you say. I'd say many posters there breathed a sign of relief when they were gone and groaned last night.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 410 ✭✭Patrick Mahomes


    There does seem to be an issue when mods, C-mod and Admins in this thread alone are all giving different answers on how and where to appeal certain issues so then the question needs to be asked to those in charge how is the average poster supposed to understand the processes is if those deemed to be overseeing the moderation of the site are giving different answers.

    Regards,

    P.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Yep, that's why I suggested thread bans should expire after a set time. The current set up is designed to annoy standard posters. It may be appropriate for posters deliberately trolling and setting out to disrupt. But for the more general poster who just gets frustrated & dragged into a silly comment by one of the low level trolls, then reported - there should be a simple way.

    And of course I realise that could be seen at odds with comment above, so perhaps three strikes and you're out of the thread.



  • Administrators Posts: 14,690 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Can I just ask posters, what is it you enjoy about Boards.ie?

    There's a lot of negativity and giving out from posters but there must be positives for all those people to keep posting.

    So can we just see what do people get from it? What do they feel works well? What keeps them coming back even with all the problems already outlined.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    See the way I'd view thread bans would be for repeated, consistent bad behaviour in a thread rather than an immediate act so the regular user might get a slap on the wrist for a once off reaction that breaks the rules, but the troll gets the boot to the curb for constant derailment of the thread.

    Maybe they aren't being used in that way, I honestly can't say but that's how I've always applied them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Habit.

    Pure and simple.

    Its a bad habit that is hard to break.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    I genuinely enjoy a range of discussions about many topics, and when posters are genuine and put forward their honest opinion - even though we may disagree, there can be such an interesting time here!

    I do think there are some posters who see a poster they disagree with and actively try to get them removed, even temporarily by their conduct.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭tom23


    DIY thread - fooking brilliant!



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I just check the same threads I’ve been on for years mostly these days. But there’s a nice range of discussion to be had. Nowhere else can I discuss lifting weights, snooker, cycling and Star Trek on one platform

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭riddles


    I would have saw it as a place to have a level of discourse on topics. But in the last year or so free and open discussion is not really possible and I wouldn’t post much and only have a vague level of engagement with the site as a result. It’s a pity really.



  • Administrators Posts: 14,690 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    I don't believe that! I don't believe it's simply a bad habit. I just find it very difficult to understand why someone would continue to spend so much time on a website that's so awful.

    There are ways of breaking the habit. So I don't believe for a second that very prolific posters are here out of habit.

    There is some "reward" to posting here. There's some payback for your time. If there wasn't it would be very very easy to avoid.

    I think your answer above is a bit lazy to be honest. Can you not think of 1 thing you enjoy?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,506 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Sports in general, TV and Films, Motors and a few others would be where I post mostly. I actually don't mind Modding as it isn't too much hassle generally.

    There can be alot of negativity as you say, but that is sometimes down to a poster who you cannot win with anyway - just like real life - keyboard warriors are everywhere, but the majority just get on with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I'm sorry you don't like my answer, but it's the truth.

    I ask myself all the time why I'm still here, and habit is the only reason I can come up with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,141 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It probably falls into a few categories for most posters, with some overlap between discussion and keeping track of things you are interested in e.g. I'd imaging Sports and Current Affairs ticks that boxes for a lot of posters. There is also the 'useful' so the technical forums. And the 'diversion'. And there's probably overlap there across those categories for hobby type interests.

    So just throwing this out there…

    Useful:

    Bargain alerts does what it says on the tin. And the 'technical' type forums useful for asking a question about a car, or appliance or whatever. Similarly Consumer Issues in case you end up in similar situation you can get good advice \ forewarning. If the forum for your local area is active, can be useful for knowledge.

    Interested Party:

    For Current Affairs, threads can be a good way to keep up with latest developments but also explanations behind those developments. You get a range of inputs than often go deeper than just what you get from a news article. When it gets to the point though where it forms into two camps debating one side versus the other, rather than updating on latest developments, I tend to disengage unless especially invested in the subject matter or think my posts are bringing something to the table not being said by others. Some posters thrive on that to-and-fro though.

    Diversion:

    For specific interests, say TV, Film, Cycling, Music, Gigs, the forums are good ways to keep up with latest news. And if you're watching something at same pace discussing it can be half the fun.

    For After Hours, some threads can be genuinely amusing but I think less so than before. The You Laugh You Lose type photos are entertaining. This AH thread is boards at its best… not many places you could you ask such a random question and be helped out by strangers in your quest.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Administrators Posts: 14,690 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Next time I’ll ask in Help Desk so. Bizarre that wasn’t mentioned at the time by anyone.

    The DRP I opened was moved to feedback or help deak, I think. Then a load of posters piled in arguing each side of it. I had to beg to get it closed, because it looked like I was opening a thread to attack one particular admin. It was all very strange and left a sour taste in my mouth.

    After 15 years of being a mod, I questioned if I wanted to do it anymore. But if i don’t, no one is left to mod the fitness forum.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek






  • I’m contractually obligated to stay here, forever and ever and ever and ever…

    I even got a plaque put up.

    honestly though I have very little to complain about generally. Vanilla is complete toss but otherwise it’s a grand time. I would say my favourite thread is Wherer’s in AH, Grem and the rest of the gang are great bunch.



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