Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself? [Threadbanned users in 1st post]

Oscar_Madison

^^^yeah it’s very clear modding - in addition there’s a time limit- banned for x days -I said it here already but no harm in repeating - a 24 hour no appeal ban could really help save a lot of mod time - it’s a long enough ban to potentially cool your heels but short enough that you’re not going to get overly worked up about it and will likely accept it - perma thread bans (and I’m not talking about any specific case here btw) should only be used if it’s a serious breach of forum rules like major abuse of another poster or if warnings or shorter sanctions haven’t worked -

In relation to mods posting in the forums they mod in, I think 85% of the time I’ve seen this working fine - but I’ve seen a number of mods through the years for have turned their forum into their personal playground -it never ends well when that happens. If there’s a particular thread a mod enjoys posting in that they are also a mod for, no harm in asking another mod to be responsible for modding that thread except in extreme circumstances - it gives the mod a chance to just be another poster posting for that topic. Just a thought

Big Bag of Chips

Ideally a moderator should not moderate a thread they are very active on. It obviously could lead to a moderator perhaps warning posters that are disagreeing with them rather than warming posters who are breaking the rule. But even if a poster absolutely 100% deserves a warning for being abusive/uncivil etc they will still cry victim if warned in a discussion with a moderator.

I do like how @Shield is moderating this thread. I like the clear notes. The timeline for bans etc. It's definitely something that can be looked at in other forums - Threadbans having an expiration date rather than being permanent. A persistently disruptive poster will obviously eventually be permanently thread banned. But maybe a shift in moderator behaviour/actions will lead to a shift in posters behaviour. Some forums will be too busy and fast moving for this level of attention and feedback for every warning, but it is definitely something to be considered.

Once again a genuine thank you to posters who are engaging with this thread. Some good ideas have come from it and will definitely be implemented where possible.

sydthebeat

"Ideally a moderator should not moderate a thread they are very active on. It obviously could lead to a moderator perhaps warning posters that are disagreeing with them rather than warming posters who are breaking the rule"

Certain sports related threads could take note of this. It has happened in a few instances that a mod sanctions a poster they are in direct conflict with in an argument on a thread. The optics are terrible as it looks like the mod uses their powers to shut down the opposite view point.

I think it should be a rule that a moderator should not be allowed to moderate threads they are extremely active in, especially when it comes to sports and they are avid fans of the team being discussed. There should be enough mods in those forums to allow for mods who are fans of other teams to moderate the threads about certain teams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981410#Comment_121981410

I didn’t say it was. But my main point is the general idea they are suggesting has some merit albeit as is it’s a bit OTT and unnecessary.

I would generally avoid modding threads I post a lot in where possible. If you have a certain take on something those who feel the opposite, rightly or wrongly, will infer moderation as the mod just doing it because of that. It’s not worth the hardship tbh if another mod can deal with it.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121983265#Comment_121983265

it’s actually just common sense and you’d think the mod themselves would have the cop on to do that- like how many times in the past have the same mods trotted out the olde line of “you’ve been here long enough you should know better” when warning other posters about something 🤪

ToweringPerformance

Does Boards have more active users now than say 5 years ago, 10 years ago. If so it's working if not well maybe a lot of the critic is warranted.

Rothko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981347#Comment_121981347

!00% agreed. Everyone who reads that will know exactly who you are talking about. He/they are one of the biggest issues with AH/CA and nothing is done about it.

Bobson Dugnutt

I’m sure that’s a problem, but one really shouldn’t be letting the opinions of complete strangers on the internet get to you so badly. If someone who you don’t know, have never met, and will never meet is able to get under your skin so badly that you last out then the issue is with you. Maybe step away for a while, take up a less stress inducing hobby, visit a site that isn’t based on user generation and engagement.

Also remember, almost no one ever changes their mind about anything serious as a result of what a stranger has written on the internet.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121983585#Comment_121983585

100%

Mods here take note - enough of us are saying it now so listen - you know exactly who these posters are- they’re reported often enough and no visible warning is given to them - they’re members of this site for well over a decade - if we did the same behaviour we’d be banned - there’s just a few who quite simply are immune to banning -and they’re cute out- no one action will get them sanctioned - it’s their repeated behaviour that’s known as low level trolling and it has to stop now

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121983220#Comment_121983220

Well I'd go further than that. Anytime I as a regular poster, go to reply to another user that has 'Moderator'… or whatever under their name, a little alarm goes off. You'd be thinking 'I'd better choose my words very carefully here'. It's a bit like driving along and you notice a Garda car behind. Is this good or bad? I wouldn't say it's all that great for either poster or moderator. So maybe best be like Beasty and presumably others and stay off threads/ forums that are anyway contentious.

For example, I know you often contribute helpfully on personal issues which forum has a whole different atmosphere. But there are others where strong differences of opinion are common and where IMHO mods should stay off.

On a separate matter, I notice some here talk of 'winning or losing arguments'. Personally I don't see how this works, except in very simple areas. Views are expressed, positions modify one way or another or not and that's about it. I can't really think of a thread that concerns debate of any great substance where you say, this won or that lost.

Patrick Mahomes

One thing also appears to me to be happening in a number of forums is that there are cliques of posters that band together to report posters they don’t agree with, This may not be happening as much as it might appear but it does appear from the outside to be happening. Is there a boards policy for this kind of behaviour the abuse of the report button or is that even considered when reports are looked at that these reports constantly come from the same cliques of posters.

Regards,

p.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984625#Comment_121984625

Reporting is worth nothing if the poster has not breached any rules. You can report every day for the rest of your life and if it's not legitimate no one will get sanctioned apart from maybe the reporter for wasting everyone's time.

The thing that people seem unable to get here is that if your reported and banned there was a very good reason for it.

Arghus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984625#Comment_121984625

How do you quantify what "abuse" is?

And if posters in a certain thread or a certain forum or whatever all report on a similar post - and bearing in mind that we as regular users have no idea if posts are reported on or who even has reported what in the first place, so we're on weak evidential grounds to begin with - is that evidence of some concerted effort to eject dissenting voices or just people who share similar outlooks being in agreement about something they object too.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984896#Comment_121984896

this isn’t a court of law - there’s enough posters on this site who can sniff a troll a mile off - low level trolling by it’s nature is covert not overt - you combine a reduced amount of mods and limited time and it makes conditions that favour low level trolls - they can exist simply because boards doesn’t have the resources to deal with them- it’s that simple

I could call you a &@%#*# and get banned - that’s a simple one and done mod action.

But what if I stated for the 40th time in multiple threads something like - “do you have evidence to back up your claim Arghus?” - and then went down the rabbit hole of something like “well the daily mail isn’t exactly a peer reviewed article now is it” …

Try dealing with that type of bollox on a thread you and others are wishing to contribute to- a thread permitted by the mod of that forum - a thread running for quite some time- try that for a while and see how long you last before calling the poster -who’s only motivation is to troll the thread and never gets as much as a slap on the wrist -a pr1ck, before you get banned - try it- many have - they’ve lasted weeks some months - but ultimately these pr1cks win - well no more - every time one of these pr1cks does this I’m quoting this post and this thread when reporting them - they’re destroying this site.

Moderator: Last line removed. I get the frustration but don’t let your emotions cloud your othwise stellar contributions to this discussion. -Shield

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984996#Comment_121984996

Those are all perfectly legitimate requests for support of a position. You call it bollox but most people call it backing up your claims with evidence.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985011#Comment_121985011

there’s only one forum that I know of that asks you to support your position and that’s politics if I’m not mistaken - all other forums are discussion - sure back up your claims if you want to but there’s no onus on you to do so -this is a discussion forum not a fcking university -

in addition I note that you have conveniently ignored my example where I said of continuous requests for references over and over again and then criticising and near mocking those references when posters provide them in good faith - that was the crux of my argument- so your counter argument is meaningless in this example and anyway only appropriate to one forum- politics if even

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984996#Comment_121984996

we can’t (and shouldn’t) moderate that type of thing. If that makes you upset I can’t help you. Asking for evidence to support a claim and then rejecting evidence is bad faith posting and it MIGHT be actionable depending but if there’s any poster(s) who engage in such behaviour just ignore them in future.

You’re basically saying someone should be banned because they’re slightly annoying to you.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981110#Comment_121981110

it’s reassuring that you’re listening to what’s been said in this thread - there’s a few of us who post in particular threads and frankly we thought we were all going mad -this thread has been a great opportunity to highlight low level trolling which has been a cause of many an argument and ban, but not unfortunately for the low level troll . Whatever comes of this thread I’ll be watching closely to see just how much we’ve been listened to and just how much things will change in relation to low level trolling

Ah here man you can’t seriously sit here and demand that mods moderate posters asking you to support claims with evidence and then complain it’s “only for the politics forum”.

I mean come on.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985128#Comment_121985128

I see at least some boards moderators need education on what low level trolling is.
I’ve spelt it out as clearly as I can but you for whatever reason either don’t get it or accept it .

Oh and by the way- do you have an official boards reference you could quote for me refuting the SPECIFIC example I gave that it’s not trolling?
Thanks (smiley face)

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985139#Comment_121985139

Again it’s the “40 times over and over” then subsequent “ mocking behaviour” description I gave you’ve conveniently decided to ignore - funny that

I’ve seen enough mod warnings in my time to know that REFERENCES ARE NOT OBLIGATORY and also THERE IS NO OBLIGATION ON ANY POSTER TO SUPPLY THEM - so why are you saying that when I was recently asked 3 TIMES for an online link and I refused 3 times - that YOU wouldn’t do anything about that???

Arghus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984996#Comment_121984996

I don't really believe that's entirely relevant to the point I was trying to make - I was adressing a different poster about a different issue?

But, in any case, to address your point - Is it really that onerous to be asked for evidence or links to something to support a claim? Fair enough, it isn't a court of law, but if someone is asserting something then someone with an opposing view is usually going to look for links or evidence or whatever. If I had credible evidence to back me up then I'd love to drown them in it - I'd relish it - but, on the other hand, if I didn't have evidence that stacked up, then, yeah, I can see how I would get annoyed by people asking me for it.If you were having a debate with someone down in the pub you could get asked for evidence - it's a pretty common place feature of debate.

I absolutely agree with you that low level trolling is a feature of the site, but, most of it does fall within the rules if the poster isn't actually being abusive. Pretty hard to police that.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985131#Comment_121985131

Really a mod would need to be following the thread to see the patterns of low level trolling you are describing. Its not something that will be obvious from one or two reported posts. Dont have to follow every thread. A sample.

If someone makes a definite statement of fact I think it is reasonable to look for evidence but from your description this seems to be demanded of expressions of opinion / concerns.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985199#Comment_121985199

a fair point you were replying to a different poster - apologises

It’s good to see that a seasoned poster agrees low level trolling exists - at least that’s a start

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985223#Comment_121985223

“Really a mod would need to be following the thread to see the pattern you are describing.”

Thats why it’s called low level trolling - it’s hard to see it -and yes I’m referring to demands for references where posters are simply posting their opinion - not claiming black is white etc

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985239#Comment_121985239

Hence my suggestion they need to follow a sample of threads. Not just reports. I know they are maxxed out and cant follow all posts in a forum.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985172#Comment_121985172

you need to calm down my friend. You’ve been very hostile with all of us and it’s not conducive to positive results.

I frankly will not engage with you any further until you wish to discuss it civilly.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985431#Comment_121985431

so you don’t get parody either - ok

I can see we’re never going to agree

Big Bag of Chips

Why do posters think moderators aren't aware of low-level trolling? But, as you say it's not something that's necessarily easy to moderate.

We have a rule in the Conspiracy Theories forum that you cannot badger other posters demanding proof. If you've asked a question 2 or 3 times and haven't been given an answer you're not going to get it, so move on. Posters have been warned for repeatedly asking the same questions and demanding proof.

If someone states something as fact they should prove it with links if possible. If someone states something as their opinion or their belief that doesn't need proof.

Low-level trolls are on the radar. It's up to posters to not engage. If you call someone a pr1ck you'll be pulled up for it regardless of the background. We have an 'ignore' feature that can be used. You can always pretend you didn't notice a comment. If you feel someone is haranguing you or badgering you report it, with a few links and examples if you have them. Something might not be done immediately but the covert comments tend to turn more overt when they are not getting the reaction they want.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985441#Comment_121985441

100%, these individuals are cute enough to stay behind the line but can push buttons enough to get other posters in trouble.

They’re best treated like any other troll and consistently ignored.