The new recycling system

A new products failure rate is far less than a product that has been used for a prolonged period.

You were arguing the opposite.

If you install 1800 brand new machines, there are going to be issues at the start. If the problems are still there next year, then there's a fundametal flaw with the system.

The problems should be more pronounced next year as natural wear and tear of the machines accumulate.

I'm starting to question that PHD you to claim have "in the area".

Normal bin is not for glass and would make bin heavier and more hassle sorting through the waste.

Plenty of bins around that can take glass for recycling.

On all those recycling bins say if full DO NOT dump below outside as your littering and could be fined. No difference in Aldi or other places .

Many times as said rejects with logo or the new barcode bring inside the store for refund .

I was not arguing the opposite, I was arguing that we have 1800 brand new pieces of equipment and issues with some of them on day 1 and month 1 is perfectly normal. You decided my argument was different.

Its not Lidls job to dispose of your rubbish.

Well no. You argued the problems are caused by brand new machines, and if they were still to give problems in a year they would be a major flaw.

But in fact the opposite is true, the failure rate of these machines should more acute in a years time than they are now.

This isn't very hard to understand TBF.

If you test it for several weeks before rolling it out and you have large number on breaks on day 1 - that is inadequate testing.

If Lidl \ Tesco didn't test their machines, the responsibility failure and incompetence is on them also.

Grand, we agree that any machine breaking doesn't reflect on ReTurn. Not their role to test machines, that responsibility is delegated to retailers.

While the machines are down, the retailer is losing money.

I didn't say that.

It is ReTurn's role to provide a process by which the machines can be tested in an integrated manner with the system.

I don't know the reasons why machines are breaking, the main responsibility may well be with the retailers, but ReTurn have a role to play here also.

Its commonly accepted in industry. Its planned for.

If you buy 1800 of something, some wont work on day one. Its that simple. The failure curve isn't what you think it is.

It takes some intentional mental gymnastics to arrive at that conclusion. Especially considering if the car you buy doesn't work correctly, they fix it....for free... A car that has been in operation for several weeks has overcome the day one problem...

You really enjoy taking peoples arguments and twisting them to suit narratives.

Its commonly accepted in industry. Its planned for.

If you buy 1800 of something, some wont work on day one. Its that simple. The failure curve isn't what you think it is.

What in the name of Jesus are you talking about?

The failure rate of a machine is more acute after prolonged usage than it is on day 1.

I have no idea what industry you are citing that share your fantasy, but you are making a holy show of yourself.

14 Days in and what do we have?

It appears a large part of the public do not understand or are aware of this scheme.

They read about it online and or in the media and hear various about various problems.

The CEO contradicts the ReTurn website.

Various recycling rates and targets are bandied about like loose confetti-who do you believe?

Reports of machines not working or not turned on or just plain broken.

And to my mind, we the public who for the most part are doing our duty by recycling at a good rate are going to pay more to their waste collectors

and pay to fund this quango.

At no point have I made the argument you’re trying to put in my mouth.

Day one isn’t the lowest failure rate for a machine like you’re saying. You’re simply wrong.

Youve clearly never bought or implemented machines in bulk. You’ve to factor in faulty purchases. It really is simple but somehow you complicate it to suit a nonsense argument.

What you’re describing is micro management. Return said what’s RVMs they can buy and the manufacturer will properly advise on how to setup and test the machine.

Thats best practice. Leaving it to the manufacturer.

What you want is layers of paperwork and micromanagement.

Machines failing in month one is perfectly understandable and there would be a lead time to have them fixed/replaced. This isn’t on ReTurn.

The awful messaging is on them.

Long and short of it - leaving your recyclable rubbish in a non-designated area of a supermarket (same goes for a bottle bank), for whatever reason, is littering.....that's the bottom line. There's an onus on individuals to display an element of common sense and personal responsibility and leaving rubbish at someone else's property is quite sad and selfish.

Let's say you're in Lidl and you've filled your trolley for a big weekly shop and you queue at checkouts as it's busy. When you finally get to be served, all the tills go down due to some network issue and after a few minutes, it's announced that the issue won't be fixed and the store must close. Now, you've spent the past hour travelling to the shop, filling your trolley, queuing at the till and then waited whilst the staff try to resolve the issue but unfortunately they can't. Do you just walk out with your trolley of shopping, pop it in your car and drive home? Why wouldn't you, you are willing to pay for the shopping but the shop is unable to accept payment and you've spent all this time and effort and are now your hopes are dashed and you are faced with being deprived of food, unless you go repeat all your efforts in another supermarket. The onus is on the retailer to have working equipment to enable you to pay them for the goods they are offering you and if they can't accept the payment due to an issue at their end, why should you be put out?

Now clearly, I disagree with the above as it's most definitely theft but it's a comparable scenario where the citizen has unexpectedly been inconvenienced due to an issue at the retailers end so if a person thinks it's OK to dispose of his/her personal rubbish in shop because of a technical issue that prevents him/her from disposing of his/her rubbish in the reverse vending machine, then why should the same person be inconvenienced and deprived of his/her shopping that has taken time, effort and money to gather, because the retailer is unable to accept payment for the goods?