The new recycling system

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121767187#Comment_121767187

Lidl has advised its customers why some containers might be rejected by the machines.

Customers need to ensure their bottle or can has a re-turn logo on it and is within the 150ml to 3-litre parameters.

FFS it is infuriating that this misinformation is still being peddled.

The logo doesn't matter! Lidl should know this since they're more than happy to charge deposits on logo-less items.

And we wonder why people are confused.

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121767113#Comment_121767113

Long and short of it - leaving your recyclable rubbish in a non-designated area of a supermarket (same goes for a bottle bank), for whatever reason, is littering.....that's the bottom line. There's an onus on individuals to display an element of common sense and personal responsibility and leaving rubbish at someone else's property is quite sad and selfish.

Let's say you're in Lidl and you've filled your trolley for a big weekly shop and you queue at checkouts as it's busy. When you finally get to be served, all the tills go down due to some network issue and after a few minutes, it's announced that the issue won't be fixed and the store must close. Now, you've spent the past hour travelling to the shop, filling your trolley, queuing at the till and then waited whilst the staff try to resolve the issue but unfortunately they can't. Do you just walk out with your trolley of shopping, pop it in your car and drive home? Why wouldn't you, you are willing to pay for the shopping but the shop is unable to accept payment and you've spent all this time and effort and are now your hopes are dashed and you are faced with being deprived of food, unless you go repeat all your efforts in another supermarket. The onus is on the retailer to have working equipment to enable you to pay them for the goods they are offering you and if they can't accept the payment due to an issue at their end, why should you be put out?

Now clearly, I disagree with the above as it's most definitely theft but it's a comparable scenario where the citizen has unexpectedly been inconvenienced due to an issue at the retailers end so if a person thinks it's OK to dispose of his/her personal rubbish in shop because of a technical issue that prevents him/her from disposing of his/her rubbish in the reverse vending machine, then why should the same person be inconvenienced and deprived of his/her shopping that has taken time, effort and money to gather, because the retailer is unable to accept payment for the goods?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121767990#Comment_121767990

Another utterly absurd and irrelevent comparison.

Long and short of it - people are going to schlep up with their recyclables and if RVMs are out of action, a proportion of them either aren't going to be able, or aren't going bother schlepping them back to their green bin, or to try again next week or at another RVM. They may end up left beside an RVM, they may end up in general waste. Which is a better outcome for the scheme?

The scheme is supposed to be about reducing litter and increasing our segregated collection of those items. And for this scenario the scheme is basically saying we don't care, this is all on you. But hey, we only have to get to 90% target. We don't really care about the disabled, we don't really care about people who buy them in cafes, we don't care about faulty RVMs, we don't care about people who get home deliveries. That 90% target looks sketchier by the day when you don't have a good use case for so many of these minority percentages.

There is an onus on the operator to have RVM functioning AND to provide alternatives for when inevitably the RVMs are out of action.

You can keep throwing out perjorative language like 'sad and selfish' until the cows come home, it just shows a disengagement from reality.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121767954#Comment_121767954

So the manufacturer is micro managing them are they? So seems like you do want layers of paperwork and micromanagement?

There's no shared components at integration or software level between the machines and Re-turn?

The reality is you simply don't know who is culpable here across Re-turn, manufacturer and operator. Yet you repeatedly post trying to exonerate Re-turn of all culpability.

Strange that.

gipi

Went into my local Centra this afternoon, they have an RVM outside, in a unit with a roller door. The door was pulled down and locked. I don't know if it's not working yet, was out of order or it was full. (I wasn't looking to use it,so didn't ask).

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768140#Comment_121768140

How are the manufacturer micro managing them? It’s advice on how to test and set it up, shop can follow it if they want. Shop will most likely follow it and be trained on how to use it by the company they bought it from. Asking ReTurn to develop X number of SOPs is ridiculous.

Each company develops their technology privately and are best positioned to advise on how to properly test and setup.

All of the above is best practice.

In my last post I literally said ReTurn are responsible for the awful messaging that has gone out. You literally have to go to the post you’re quoting to see me criticise ReTurn. Do you even bother to read what people write?

Archeron

So one of the key benefits of this was to reduce litter as people will collect all those discarded perfect condition dry empty cans and bottles for free convenient money.

Suddenly we are days into discussions on the ins and outs of whether leaving big bags of rejected plastic and metal is littering or not. Depending on your view, littering on a whole new scale than we've seen before.

Rejected plastic that most likely at least 50% of which would otherwise have been in a recycling bin at home.

What a tremendous start.

Glebee

Just goes to show as well alot of people have put no value on money, easy come easy go.

Deep Thought

Used one today in Tesco. Seamless, stuff in , receipt out.. receipt scanned at checkout after my shop..easy peasy

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768353#Comment_121768353

Were ye asked for a club card?

Deep Thought

Nope.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768367#Comment_121768367

Nope. Just walked up to machine and put cans and bottles in. It gives you a count on items and the amount back for each one and a running total. Then press the print button and that’s it.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121767390#Comment_121767390

For Jaysus's sake, it's NOT rubbish. Those are recyclable resources that members of the public have taken the time and effort to gather and deposit at a place where recycling is specified. At least be appreciative of their effort.

ForestFire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121767390#Comment_121767390

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766561#Comment_121766561

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764490#Comment_121764490

You are entitled to your opinion, and likewise so am I and others, but you starting your discussion with I'm right and you cannot be.

And again for me,

1) This is NOT "rubbish", It is clean dry recycling material.

2) It not "left on the Ground". It is returned, in the facility they set up to take these returns, indoors (Will not just blow away).

They should have anticipated these issues and had staff to deal with them

If you were in McDonald's, and you brought your used tray up to the bin, to find it completely full, is it littering to leave your tray beside the bin or back on your table? Or are you packing it into your pockets to bring it home?

And I know you'll claim this is completely different as you bought the food in McDonald's but I'd argue...

These bottles are sold and purchased in these exact shops and others like them.

These shops/re-return charge us extra money when they sell us these bottles

The shops/re return owe us this money back

The shops/re return agreed together the return points are on the shops premisses and therefore accept the responsibility.

Re return/shops request we bring the bottles back to these official locations.

Re-return/shops should manage the return process properly and safely themselves, and if the retails signed up or agreed to install these machine on their premises, then they are obliged to take them back.

But that's Just my opinion .

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768449#Comment_121768449

Saying that it’s littering to leave them on the ground isn’t an opinion. It’s a fact.

It’s not Lidls responsibility to dispose of items that are rejected by the RVM. They didn’t consent to it and leaving your containers there in that manner is the fundamental definition of littering.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121767990#Comment_121767990

You know there are Green minded people who think there is too much packaging on goods sold in supermarkets and who go to the time & trouble to remove the excess packaging after paying and leave it there for the retailer to deal with. Is this littering?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768449#Comment_121768449

Its almost definite that absolutely none of the bottles in the photo had a deposit paid on them, hence there is no obligation raised anywhere; and its littering.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768445#Comment_121768445

Use whatever word you want, leaving them on the ground in Lidl is littering. Its rotten behaviour imo.

Putting them in the designated spot as authorised by Lidl i.e. inside the RVM and having it accepted is not littering.

Its a very simple concept.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768489#Comment_121768489

Its almost definite that absolutely none of the bottles in the photo had a deposit paid on them

How could you possibly know that from 1 still photo?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768502#Comment_121768502

They're beside a working RVM (one unit is out, the other isn't).

On balance of probabilities, and not in Very Angry Man Land, they weren't taken as they weren't in scope.

There is a lot of posting from Very Angry Man Land on here.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768506#Comment_121768506

They are beside an RVM that is switched on to some degree.

That doesn't mean it is working.

Also you have absolutely no idea which of those empties had a deposit paid on them or not.

Even the CEO has acknowledged that the machines will reject containers that a deposit been paid on.

You are supposed to contact him not leave it beside the machine though.

Point out the Green Man may not be wearing any clothes and you are labelled An Angry Man, too predictable.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768531#Comment_121768531

I can tell from the photo that there are at least two milk cartons, possibly one plastic bottle of a cleaning liquid and a huge amount of pre-scheme Coca Cola and Britvic Ireland bottles that are out of scope.

Can you identify anything at all that is in scope?

There is no way those sacks are from people bringing in-scope products and having them refused, unless you're in Very Angry Man Land and need something else to rant about.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768535#Comment_121768535

That's the machines job. Not yours.

There is no way those sacks are from people bringing in-scope products and having them refused, unless you're in Very Angry Man Land and need something else to rant about.

You have no idea if that is true or not, but you seem very upset that it might not be.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768551#Comment_121768551

And I'm going with the vastly more realistic outcome that all the out of scope containers were refused, and then dumped by litterers.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768496#Comment_121768496

Your argument is in knots. What's inside and outside the RVM machines collection point is pretty identical. By your logic what may be in the RVM machines is useful and valuable material that can be sold on. But what's outside is just litter you say.

You or Lidl or Return may not like to see it deposited outside the collection point. But what on earth did you expect?

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768597#Comment_121768597

There’s no knots. Lidl are responsible for what’s inside the vending machine. They are not responsible for what is outside the vending machine. What’s is left there has been left there without their permission, it’s littering.

Whats outside will be put in a garbage truck and taken to a different place than the ReTurn stuff.

It’s astounding people will genuinely argue it’s not littering. It’s **** disgraceful what’s in that photo.

Theres two milk containers, so no not everything is the same, is it?

You actually don’t have an argument and there’s no opinion here, it’s illegal and it’s littering.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768597#Comment_121768597

It's starting to become fairly clear this is absolutely nothing about the environment and all about the strict process the Green Man has insisted upon.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768628#Comment_121768628

They are not responsible for what is outside the vending machine.

They are yeah.

If you own or are responsible for a place that is open to the public you have a legal duty to keep the place litter-free, regardless of how the litter got there

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768653#Comment_121768653

You fully understand what I meant.

The bottles being left there is illegal without Lidls permission.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768628#Comment_121768628

Why is it illegal? This is a retailers business property. At a place where they have a designated point for the collection of recyclable bottles and cans.

Who is going to prosecute? Lidl can't take a criminal case against people (customers) who leave bottles and cans (or litter as you call it). They could take out an injunction to stop a person entering their premises..

If I drop a wrapper in a Lidl tomorrow, is that illegal?

This sort of public behaviour was entirely to be expected and will be a norm, look at many bottle banks/ bins etc.

Are you sure you don't want some police state?

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768676#Comment_121768676

And my argument is in knots???

“To leave or throw litter in a public place is an offence which is liable to an on the spot fine of €150 or a maximum fine of €3000 in court” - that’s the law. That’s how it’s illegal.

And yes, Lidl is a public place. And yes, the items in that picture would be classified as litter.

Theres zero interpretation here. It’s black and white.

Im gonna stop this back and forth now. You’re not gonna budge and you’re factually incorrect.