FEC committee & final report - UPDATE post 442

Grizzly 45 · 14-11-2022 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870008#Comment_119870008

Agree with points above.But it is the "reputation" that would follow them now thru their political career. Aherne is now known as having an agenda and using a criminal murder as a coat peg to hang to ban handguns and IPSC.

Amazing how many non-gun owners , when told this underhand deal are utterly shocked at this kind of duplicity common in politicians🙄.like Haughy and the arms trial.You might be cleared in a court of law,but public opinion might not clear you,and the whiff of Sht always follows your political career.

BSA International · 14-11-2022 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872526#Comment_119872526

Some,if not all, were told they would/could be revoked. There is precedent with f/b pistols. They took a chance and may regret it. As I said hard to have sympathy. No glee involved.

My attitude may be shite to some. Fair enough I'll not loose any sleep.

They "came for" my f/b pistol b4, may come for my .22 pistol, not a lot can/will be done to stop them 😞

Cass · 14-11-2022 6:43pm

@Grizzly 45 It's laughable you think that;

A) politicians care about their reputations in that regard
B) that anyone outside of the shooting community hold such politicians in that regard,
C) even a large percentage of the shooting community know enough about it to know who was involved,
D) anyone still thinks of it given the time since it happened.

You are placing too much value in our standing in society, and way too much faith in what the general public think of us.

This ban will be done with the support of the majority.

Cass · 14-11-2022 7:11pm

@BSA International "I told you so" is rarely helpful and never constructive.

That being said I agree with you. Speaking only for myself, any time the topic of licensing a semi auto came up I gave the caveat of "there is a ban coming/looming, so buy one if you want but be armed with all the information which includes the possibility of losing it at some point in the future."

These warnings were met with skepticism, dismissal and even ridicule by a small few who up till recently were claiming to have single handedly sorted this himself and to reassure the rest of us that the ban was dead in the water. Twice actually.

Now none of that is helpful or constructive but no one can claim they did not know, were not told, and frankly if anyone owning one of these firearms was as poorly informed as to not know what has been going on for the last 7 years then I would suggest getting more involved in your sport and stop listening to just one voice.

BSA International · 14-11-2022 7:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119874129#Comment_119874129

Cass, I don't think I said or implied a "told ya so" attitude. To repeat myself, I simply feel no sympathy for their prediciment.

I too agree with you listening to the "wrong" people causes us as a group serious hassle.

Cass · 14-11-2022 8:13pm

Cass, I don't think I said or implied a "told ya so" attitude

You've taken me up wrong..I never meant you said that, I was saying it. As per my post above. I started my reply with that because I finished by saying it.

I only tagged you rather than quote your reply.

Munsterlad102 · 14-11-2022 8:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119867219#Comment_119867219

Oh yeah that goes without saying. What they can't do is use said firearms with the proper training. As AGS don't have ranges rated for rifle rounds, they can't train without private ranges, the Midlands range is the main one iirc.

Naturally we should take a stand, the whole reason we have 22lr pistols is that there was pushback in 2008. I suggested ranges stop renting to AGS. Maybe our organizations can fund a legal challenge or at least some legal research. Sending emails to local TDs to voice our discontent as well, only one isn't going to be noticed but if hundreds or thousands of emails come in, one of them is going to take notice.

Cass · 14-11-2022 9:16pm

As I said already AGS is not the cause of this. The Minister wanted this and with the so called coalition and those associated to it calling for this ban what Minister wouldn't jump on the chance?

Plus no range will alienate AGS over something they had no hand in.

The reason we have 22 pistols is because the 2008 ban was aimed only at CF pistols.

AGAIN if the Minister had taken the recommendation of the so called coalition they would be mostly gone too as the coalition called for the banning of any 22 pistol with a barrel length of less than 5 inches, iirc.

As I previously said people are probably sick hearing me talk about this but here we are, 7 years later, suffering the consequences of that secret set of proposals while the man that spear headed it now sits in the FEC.

And if anyone thinks the FEC is finished because semi autos are gone you're sadly mistaken. The FEC is still ongoing and that should scare the scrap out of everyone.

Grizzly 45 · 14-11-2022 10:05pm

These warnings were met with skepticism, dismissal and even ridicule by a small few who up till recently were claiming to have single handedly sorted this himself and to reassure the rest of us that the ban was dead in the water. Twice actually.

Said individual is now off on another Irish shooting/political channel,trying to collect others in a group who want to fight this ban. Depite claiming earlier in this year when FUNI approached him to already have a group ready to fight this...

I also found out who this politician was that he supposedly took out, from what political party, and what his logic was behind all this as to why he thought this was never going to happen...

If some of you think I'm away with it... His plans and view of what is /was going to happen in Irish politics are completely on Planet Zanussi. And if he was successful,we'd be lucky to have even a shotgun by the time it was over.

Grizzly 45 · 14-11-2022 10:14pm

Ok. So the consensus is here . Nothing we can do,no chance of changing, lie down and take it and like it,and maybe throw others under the bus to save some antiques,and it doesn't concern me anyway.

Fair enough...Then no one will mind if we try anyway and do our own thing in FUNI about this? "Better to have loved and lost than not loved at all!" After all we are apparently just doing solo runs and are speaking for no one...So no harm done.

We'll let you know how it goes... Either way,unlike some we report back on how things go,good or bad.

BSA International · 14-11-2022 10:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119874353#Comment_119874353

I see. No hassle 😉

Cass · 14-11-2022 10:29pm

As said before, lash away.

No one is going to stop you and how could they even if they wanted to, but as I've made clear my own personal belief is it's a futile endeavour if for no other reason not one person has put forward anything resembling a workable plan to even start to tackle this.

The, and I'm not singling out anyone so if I mention your idea it's coincidence, ideas of lobbying, writing to TDs, writing to the Minister, asking for meetings, etc, etc have all been done to death over the past twenty years by much larger and better organised groups who had official standing on actual Government committees and still the politicians smiled, congratulated them for a great presentation and swiftly proceeded with their [politicians] original agenda/plan.

Nothing new has been suggested and nothing suggested has ever worked. Its not pessimism that leads me to say it's futile, it's experience.

BSA International · 14-11-2022 10:34pm

Grizzly,

As I said I've no iron in the fire atm & I think you're wasting your time but as you've skin in the game I reckon you have nothing to loose.

If they come for mine again, as I know they will sooner or later, I'll worry about it then.

Munsterlad102 · 15-11-2022 2:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119874620#Comment_119874620

As I said already AGS is not the cause of this

Never said they did, but they did call for it and are trying to capitalize on this. Sure look at every article where a Garda comments on firearms legislation, they all call for further restrictions on every type of firearm imaginable, CFSA, restricted shotguns, 22 pistols, hell even 22 semi auto rifles. Lets not forget what happened after the 1972 and 2008 orders, AGS tried to reinterpret the law and ban handguns. They've done it before and they'll do it again.

Plus no range will alienate AGS over something they had no hand in.

Well maybe they should, if the legislature is going to piggyback off our facilities yet attack our sport, then why should we facilitate them? Why should we not play hardball with the state?

The reason we have 22 pistols is because the 2008 ban was aimed only at CF pistols.

Eh no. Then why don't we have 22 magnum pistols or any other rimfire pistols or 22 air pistols? https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/citation/news/29 I know it's not the most reputable source but I couldn't find the original article. But nevertheless it still clearly state Minister Dermot Ahern wanted to ban handguns outright.

AGAIN if the Minister had taken the recommendation of the so called coalition they would be mostly gone too as the coalition called for the banning of any 22 pistol with a barrel length of less than 5 inches, iirc.

Then why aren't sub 5 inch 22 pistols, or 223 rifles, or restricted shotguns on the chopping block then? Why are 1950s CFSA rifles not exempted then? All were policies of the coalition, but not one was taken in full. You're attributing far, far too much to the coalition rather than other actors.

As I previously said people are probably sick hearing me talk about this but here we are, 7 years later, suffering the consequences of that secret set of proposals while the man that spear headed it now sits in the FEC.

Again, you're attributing too much to your man. If the minister is under some kind of trance from your man, then why doesn't she listen to him now, after all he's changed his mind on CFSA according to the minutes from the 3rd meeting of the FEC?

And if anyone thinks the FEC is finished because semi autos are gone you're sadly mistaken. The FEC is still ongoing and that should scare the scrap out of everyone.

Agreed. The minutes from the 3rd meeting would indicate that they're going to redefine "assault rifles" and the "resemble" part.

Neither you nor I may not have skin in this game, but that doesn't mean that we should sit back and let the 38+ people who are affected have their firearms banned. If we don't put up a fight, then the legislature will come for more and more until we're shooting airsoft guns at targets.

Grizzly 45 · 15-11-2022 3:33pm

Never said they did, but they did call for it and are trying to capitalize on this. Sure look at every article where a Garda comments on firearms legislation, they all call for further restrictions on every type of firearm imaginable, CFSA, restricted shotguns, 22 pistols, hell even 22 semi auto rifles. Lets not forget what happened after the 1972 and 2008 orders, AGS tried to reinterpret the law and ban handguns. They've done it before and they'll do it again.

Indeed they did, but look at the time period when this was .2008 and 2014 pre-Dail public inquiry and post many DC/HC court cases,not to mind Costs being awarded and now if true, both opponent bodies to us were suggesting a compromise of grandfathering those 38 licenses!

That is pretty pertinent because a decade ago there neither of those two bodies would have suggested such a move!!! Not for a moment saying its all good and they are on our side,but it is somewhat of a sea change in Govt dept thinking. Also, if the minister is not taking their committee's advice that too is sea change thinking on their part as then they also have to accept the consequences of their actions directly in flying in the advice of their committee and dept heads. Its the core reason to have these committees and Dept head advisors on particular topics,as no minister appointed can be an expert on all things. The decisions lie finally with the minister, but so do the consequences.

So this smells to me of an ego run by one or both of these ministers, looking at picking low-hanging fruit and probably dreaming of being behind a table full of "assault rifles" sht grinning at RTE camera crews and declaring they have made Ireland a safer society by getting these assault weapons out of circulation..... Not on my watch they won't!

Of course, AGS would call for the banning of X types of guns. We saw this in the Winter of 2013 when they literally used a shotgun approach to try and ban everything in a hope something would stick.preferably SACF, pistols of all types and restricted shotguns,which was the last desperate tactic of a certain Garda firearms expert who was shown up as a fool across the Dist courts of Ireland. So unless they call for the same again,and I'd expect them to do so,its part of an elaborate dance.

Well maybe they should, if the legislature is going to piggyback off our facilities yet attack our sport, then why should we facilitate them? Why should we not play hardball with the state?

Im at a loss as to why they need to use Midlands or others[?]in the first place. They apparently spent millions buying these container shooting ranges from General Ranges in Dungannon in N Ireland. A basic demo model is over 750K STG,and apparently, AGS bought 4 or 5 of them new and distributed them around the state. So why train on a mere civilian range? Is this why the proposed act now has this detail about AGS firing range certification?

smmember20 · 15-11-2022 3:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119863109#Comment_119863109

Wow: Actually I am all right jack, I have a AR style .223 S/A prior to the cut off date, so right back in the mirror to you, with your not so kind words!

My actual commentary is that up to and including this, noone made any differentiation betweem any types of CF SA, since 2015 and the Minister and AGS got together the clock was ticking, anyone who licenced an AR or any SA after that date should have/must have known the day of reckoning would come.

My point is that the target of the AGS is the AR style rifle, like it or not it is dye cast and you can argue all you want, I was and still am of the view that there could be something salvaged in the lines as described, but I fear we have no lobby group strrong enought to get it even in front of the minister, it is a done deal and all are going to be included like it or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

smmember20 · 15-11-2022 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119863001#Comment_119863001

In fairness nothing is getting thrown under the bus, it left the depot in 2015 so wake up to reality please!

Cass · 15-11-2022 4:14pm

@smmember20 My actual commentary is that up to and including this, noone made any differentiation betweem any types of CF SA

The so-called sports coalition did. They specifically asked/recommended that any semi auto centerfire prior to 1950 NOT be included in any band, cap or future legislation.

Grizzly 45 · 15-11-2022 4:56pm

If you dont expect sht to be thrown at you,then maybe THINK how your posts is gonna read b4 you hit the send button?

Writing like that made you look like the quintessial Fudd more concerned at saving their particular type of firearm.

Yeah,I could also take that attitude as I am sorted pre 2015 as well.But I choose not to and if it was legal to aquire another gun post 2015,why not,as there was no time of enactment mentioned in this intent from the ministers involved.Nor was BTW any info forthcoming from AGS to anyone that such gun lics might be revokedinthefuture.

IOW why deny oneself somthing if it was possible to legally own and use it?

BSA International · 15-11-2022 5:32pm

"I choose not to and if it was legal to aquire another gun post 2015,why not,as there was no time of enactment mentioned in this intent from the ministers involved."

She did say the intention was to revoke any granted after her announcement when legislation was sorted.

"Nor was BTW any info forthcoming from AGS to anyone that such gun lics might be revokedinthefuture."

I know of a lad that Garda did advise that the post 2015 licence he was being granted may he revoked in the future.

Cass · 15-11-2022 5:53pm

@Grizzly 45 Nor was BTW any info forthcoming from AGS to anyone that such gun lics might be revokedinthefuture.

Because of the lack of proper quotes I cannot tell if you said this or someone else but as its under your username I'll assume it was you.

The Garda commissioner said in the updated guidelines in 2018;

Issuing persons and applicants alike should be mindful that, on 18th September 2015, the Minister for Justice and Equality announced that any new restricted firearm certificates for centre fire semi-automatic rifles, granted between that date and the enactment of proposed legislation banning the future licensing of these types of firearms, shall stand revoked.

Grizzly 45 · 15-11-2022 6:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119878117#Comment_119878117

Sorry,fat fingers with no nails typing on a phone touchscreen while awaiting an appointment😉.

Indeed the did say that Cass...Point being is how many people would know about this particular legislative point NOT reading boars.ie/shooting and involving them in the debate? Remember its only about1% if at that population know or read here about current events.Before you say anyone involved with SACF or owning one post-2015 would know about this upcoming ban. I got a call from someone today worried about the possible loss of their rifle, and they were unaware of it and a total anti boards.ie person.

So...ignorance willful or...Maybe just should have read boards.ie?😉 Point being,did anyone when they applied for these rifles,get a formal notice from their FAO or Cheif saying "You realise these might not be licensable in the future at a date yet to be announced,and you stand a good chance of losing this gun under the intended legislation?" Apart from for BSA intl friend in previous post.

We hammered this point out over the years here that this was a self ban and because of this very point of having no idea when this act might commence is what caused 38 people to go and get them. maybe if there had been a formal note with our applications there might have been less people applying?

Grizzly 45 · 15-11-2022 7:05pm

Well.Welll.Welll... Lookkeee this folks .Sent to me from one of my "friends" How DID Mr Walsh get on FEC??Apart from living in Min Browne's constituency...

His friend!!!

Are you outraged yet???

BSA International · 15-11-2022 7:50pm

Ignorance of the law is not a defence in law.........

In fairness it's not a crime to be friends with a politican. Leo leaked info to his friend and what happened? Nowt !

Cass · 15-11-2022 9:43pm

@Grizzly 45 You don't have to be on Boards or even like the forum, but I find it incredulous that anyone, over the past 7 years, was not made aware of this. Through their own research or just word of mouth.

I've come across many people that claimed they did not know *such and such* was happening and that is fine, not everyone needs to know all aspects of shooting politics . But the SACF club is very, very small accounting for less than 0.05% of the shooting community so I do not understand this in it knowing everything going on in relation to these guns.

As for AGS not warning them. The simple answer is it's not their job. The firearms act specifically states that the onus is on the applicant to know the type of license required, so one could say by extension the applicant should know it would stand revoked.

I'm not making excuses for either side here nor am I blaming either side but it's not quite as black and white as "they should have told us" and I do understand the anger being felt and the need to blame someone but the end result is always going to be "we told ye, you were warned" .

Grizzly 45 · 15-11-2022 9:45pm

There is more to that saying too... "the law must also be clear that each man may understand it to obey it" Nor was it, and still isn't "law" so...

No, it's not a crime, but if you are a politician who is claiming to be using an impartial committee to advise you and your choices are ;

A chairwoman, a person who was a former TV personality has no clue on the topics involved and is in tight with other politicians from Cork of the FF/G persuasion

An ex-gun dealer who hasn't traded in at least 8 years in your constituency,and came with "baggage" from previous relations with government officials in your Dept. Seemingly not heeding a single word of your appointed committee, your Dept heads and Garda rep

People just might consider you a tad biased on the subject you are supposed to legislate impartially on.IOW are you just doing a pro forma charade to satisfy some openness and transparency lark?

Forgone conclusion that nothing would happen to Leo.did anyone honestly think the DPP would find a charge against the most powerful political man in Ireland?The exact same office that appoints the DPP?🙄

More damaging for the govt in any future case not just with shooters.as who will bother going on a committee,if the minister loads it with both overt and possibly covert choices or political favourites [it seems Mr Walsh is a great FF supporter too] and declares it in the prerequisite to be" impartial" About as impartial as hand picking a jury of KKK members in a black mans trial. No one will ever go near another committee from this dept again if this is true.

Grizzly 45 · 15-11-2022 10:01pm

@Grizzly 45 You don't have to be on Boards or even like the forum, but I find it incredulous that anyone, over the past 7 years, was not made aware of this. Through their own research or just word of mouth.

I've come across many people that claimed they did not know *such and such* was happening and that is fine, not everyone needs to know all aspects of shooting politics . But the SACF club is very, very small accounting for less than 0.05% of the shooting community so I do not understand this in it knowing everything going on in relation to these guns.

Well,be incredudled [is that a word?] then.As there was one such.

As for AGS not warning them. The simple answer is it's not their job. The firearms act specifically states that the onus is on the applicant to know the type of license required, so one could say by extension the applicant should know it would stand revoked.

But that's not a requirement in the firearms act law...Your part of the legal knowledge is to fulfill the requirements of wanting such a firearm.Do you fulfil the requirements Yes/No? Be an almost paralegal on the firearms acts and in depth knowledge of whats going on about them?NO!

Cass · 16-11-2022 12:53am

Paralegal? That's a stretch. It's one piece of information, albeit being a major one. There is no requirement to know or understand the firearms act, and it would do feck all good as there is nothing in the act to inform you of a potential ban.

I also never said it was a requirement in law however your argument is also the reason that AGS are under no obligation to inform anyone of any possible changes to the law and in fact they would be accused of trying to dissuade people if they have such a warning.

They cannot refuse to issue a license based on possible, future, legislation.

garrettod · 16-11-2022 2:31pm

You lot could not be doing a better job of showing why our sport is being killed off, if you tried.

Instead of these pointless squabbles, would you not all agree to do something constructive, for the sport (at large)?

Seriously, in house bickering, gets us no where, and leaves us even more vulnerable, going forward.

Unite the (shooting) clans...

https://youtu.be/g2oJhWi5SQ4

Cass · 16-11-2022 3:10pm

Sorry, but I'm laughing to myself about the video clip.

In the film Robert betrayed him and sided with the English. Not only fitting to our situation but exactly what happens among our shooting groups.

garrettod · 16-11-2022 4:54pm

Sadly, that's true.... albeit, Wallace was right about standing togeather. Its the betrayal, and "in house" squabbling, that beats us, not our opposition😊

Grizzly 45 · 16-11-2022 6:11pm

More fitting is Mel Gibsons line about the committees of Scottish Lairds."They'd argue about the shade of brown of their own Sh$t before doing anything !"

BattleCorp · 16-11-2022 8:21pm

I'm meeting my local TD on Monday. I'd hope that many other people are going to their TDs about this.

It might get us nowhere but at least I won't be accused of playing the fiddle while Rome burns.

Grizzly 45 · 16-11-2022 10:12pm

Found this most intresting speech on this by Mc Entee on Kildare St.com At least we now finally have a definition of why IPSC is banned too in this? https://www.kildarestreet.com/committees/?id=2022-11-08a.1305

The proposed new section 10 provides for a cap on the licensing of semi-automatic centrefire rifles. Deputies may be aware that a semi-automatic centrefire rifle is a rifle that does not need to be manually reloaded between shots and can use centrefire ammunition. There are two main types of ammunition, centrefire and rimfire. Centrefire is a more powerful type of ammunition that can travel further. What I am proposing in this section, on public safety grounds, is in line with a previous announcement by the then Minister on 18 September 2015. I would share the concerns of the Garda Síochána in regard to public safety. I also acknowledge the dedication and responsibility of the owners of legally held firearms in the State. I refer to this measure as a cap as opposed to an absolute ban, given it will allow persons who previously held a firearm certificate for these types of rifles before 18 September 2015 to continue to renew their certificates. I think this is an appropriate and balanced measure, given it is forward looking and not retrospective to the period before the then Minister's announcement of 2015

On the last bit,I have just puked in my waste basket!!!

Finally also,we have a definition of what dynamic shooting is by the ministers own words;

The proposed new sections 11 to 14, inclusive, follow legal advice on the issue of dynamic shooting, which refers to any form of activity in which firearms are used to simulate combat. There is currently a prohibition on dynamic shooting in the principal Act and I am advised that this extends to the Garda Síochána, which would not be appropriate. Section 14 clarifies that the prohibition on dynamic shooting does not apply to a garda in the course of his or her duties.

Grizzly 45 · 17-11-2022 2:28pm

Now somthing else to quare the pitch!

Heather Humphries is taking over from MC Entee today as she is going on preggers leave and Heather is in charge to Dec 17th when there is a cabinet reshuffle and Leo & Co take over and a "new" minister for justice is installed. So its now a question for anyone,who do we literally talk to on this in the next 30 days starting today?, Browne, Humphries or the new FG head?

garrettod · 18-11-2022 1:54am

I'd be going above Browne's head, as a starting point - he's only an understudy, and I seriously doubt he'll get promoted next month.

I also don't think that he'll listen to reason, at least not from the shooting community, given this is personal agenda. However, he'll probably listen to his master, if he thinks it'll help his career (and assuming it's not going to be a case of going for him, via the local electorate).

Grizzly 45 · 18-11-2022 2:39pm

October minutes of the FEC meeting.Very informative[Sarcasm]

Gotta laugh at this logic here.So Pre 2015 SACF the good reasons of suitability for either hunting/target shooting is perfectly fine for a chief to grant a license.

But POST 2015, according to these minutes, these are not "suitable" anymore!!! I would be laughing if this utter farce wasn't so stupid and tragic.

Think the best thing our side can do now is resign from this charade of a committee. It's nothing more than pro forma theatre, where these two are going to be seen as Judas goats by the shooting community.

https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/239593/cc80f096-e2c1-4481-b2cc-bb6bb7af00dd.pdf#page=null

smmember20 · 23-11-2022 12:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119877726#Comment_119877726

I have all of the above! So I'm really OK not throwing anyone under a bus done a long time ago as in 2015 where has the lobby been since then!

Cass · 23-11-2022 12:39am

What? Your reply is barely comprehensible. No punctuation, and one continuous sentence makes it almost impossible to understand but I'll try.

What has your having "all these" got to do with the above? You said no one differentiated between the various types of semi autos which is wrong. The so called coalition made a very distinct differentiation in an attempt to save one aspect of the sport by throwing the rest under the bus.

Not sure what you mean by "done a long time ago" other than you implying that all is well because the anti shooting acts carried out by the so called coalition were done back in 2015 and so we should all just quietly move on and pay no attention to it anymore. Well 2015 was a while ago but the ban is coming, probably next year, so it seems it's very relevant today.

Finally regarding the "lobby" and what it has been up to. Both those points can be answers together with, THERE IS NO GUN LOBBY IN IRELAND.

There are a bunch of agenda driven, vested interest, groups but none that I know off that solely represented (at the time) 35 guys, which has risen to some 78 today.

The other problem is the so called sports coalition that should be on the side of the shooter was busy giving away the farm without being asked, pushed or coerced. So in the Ministers mind the "gun lobby" wanted these guns gone too. Well, only ones they [the so called coalition] didn't approve off.

So the "lobby" you speak off is non existent and if there was something resembling one it was secretly selling all of you down the River instead of standing up for and trying to protect your sport.

Feisar · 23-11-2022 12:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889799#Comment_119889799

For what it's worth it's there in black and white that they do not agree.

BSA International · 23-11-2022 11:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910455#Comment_119910455

Not much more they can do.

Grizzly 45 · 24-11-2022 1:57pm

They could both resign effective immediately. Fabian especially!

State that this committee is nothing more than a pro-format motion the minister has to do to give a pretence of consulting with affected parties,but has already decided the course of legislation,and that the make-up of this committee is, in reality, ONE Vs 2 govt bodies and 2 hand-picked ministerial /political plants.

There is no accountability on how the Minister chose these two,[apart from needing a controllable and tame opposition] and a loaded chair, there is no job interview for three paid positions on a Govt body... [Be interesting what the public accounts committee might have to say about such]And one person will be the Fall guy here and considered the Judas goat by the shooting community if this goes any worse.

This is the time to hit the ejector seat handle for our side and bail out!

jb88 · 05-01-2023 5:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119915499#Comment_119915499

Doesnt look like they resigned considering their attendance at two subsequent meetings. Goes to show its really only a showcase here for the demise of the shooting sports in Ireland, helped on by our own.

At least we know who to blame, and also who not to vote for in the next general election.

Grizzly 45 · 06-01-2023 2:19pm

So the only option now is, as no doubt the new minister will just deflect it back to Browne as his baby. Will be a high court judicial review of the legislation when it is enacted. Nice and expensive and will fatten a few barristers and other legal types already bulging wallets.IF our organisations will, of course, be bothered looking after such an issue.

It also shows what a bunch of paper tigers represent us.Despite having a seat in the most expensive kindergarten in Europe. AKA The Senad.

Where is this Firearms Users Representative Group[ FURG] that is supposedly representing us all again? Nothing since June last year in their announcement that amounted to basically "We are mad that the minister didn't invite us to his party. So we are gonna get a gang together and demand he invite us.Cos we are the BIG boys!"🙄 You wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry anymore.

At least we know who to blame, and also who not to vote for in the next general election.

Indeed ,ourselves for our apathy and indifference as it is the usual "FU I'm alright Jack!" attitude and is there any guarantee that any alternative parties are going to be more pro-gun than this shower? Esp those that have a connection to 35 years of political violence?They could hardly say they want to liberalise firearms laws without getting massive political backlash.

As Pat Rabbite[LAB] famously said "Shure you'd say anything in an election to get a vote!"

bruman · 11-01-2023 8:09pm

The minutes of the 6th meeting are now available

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/8fa98-firearms-expert-committee/

The committee’s term has been extended for a further 3 meetings.

Munsterlad102 · 11-01-2023 8:34pm

Shame there’s no video or audio recording of the meetings. Wasn’t there some recording or a similar committee in 2015 with Mark Dennehy on the panel? Any idea whether that was a government committee with Mark as an expert witness or something else?

itisnotgrand · 11-01-2023 8:57pm

Point 5 of the November meeting… is that a good or bad thing?

Can any give a guess as to what we’re looking at coming out of all this apart from the CF SA ban?

bruman · 11-01-2023 10:25pm

Point 4 of the 3rd meeting and Point 5 of the 4th meeting is interesting.

We all know the minister wants to ban post 09/2015 SA CF (and has his mind made up) however when the expert committee cannot agree on the matter & the only ones on the committee who appear to be against these firearms are the members who are representing various government departments, it really calls into question how any recommendations can be made on the issue.

BSA International · 11-01-2023 11:09pm

Training to be discussed. Someone looking to cash in ..... again.

Restricting where firearms can be used? Crap for hunters? Restriction to nominated land?

Grizzly 45 · 12-01-2023 2:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120095806#Comment_120095806

That was a Dail public comittee hearing.Mark and Gunhappy.ie were chosen to represent or comment on the situation by their submissions,by then minister of state David Stanton. The vid is still available on YT and on the FUNI webpage. I still have Marks written submission,it is still one of the better 24 page submissions on the firearms situation in Ireland.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

FEC committee & final report - UPDATE post 442

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

FEC committee & final report - **UPDATE post 442**

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

FEC committee & final report - UPDATE post 442